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Joe Bowen
04-14-2005, 02:07 AM
Has anyone heard of Ushiro Kakae? or Ushiro Hagaijime? What type of attacks are these??

Mashu
04-14-2005, 02:19 AM
Ushiro Kakae?

後ろ 抱え

Grasping or holding from behind.

Ushiro Hagaijime?

後ろ 羽交い絞め

Grasping or holding the elbows from behind.

Perhaps :)

aikidoc
04-14-2005, 08:20 AM
Shouldn't that be Ushiro Hiji (not haga for) elbows?

Mashu
04-14-2005, 12:44 PM
Find out what 羽交い means and think about the positioning and what it would look like and it makes sense.

rob_liberti
04-14-2005, 04:02 PM
People who were in Japan at different times and in different learned whatever romanization was available to them. Tthere are at least 5 different systems for romanizing Japanese, some of which have had their own changes over time. (The one that is more German is almost impossible to read - and should NEVER be used!)

I have seen people romanize aikido techniques on their testing forms with "Hiji" (elbows) represented as "Hizi" - which to mean is closer to "Hiza" (knees). When I saw they wanted a 'round the back double "knee" grab I thought that was great - so I tackled the poor guy! :)

Rob

Mashu
04-14-2005, 04:53 PM
When I saw they wanted a 'round the back double "knee" grab I thought that was great - so I tackled the poor guy!

Ouch! :)


羽交い はがい hagai is wings or pinion. 羽 is feather, wing, or sometimes blade. 交 is a lot of things I guess. It is interchange, mix, blend, etc. In this case hagaijime is pinioning nage's arms from behind (ushiro). If uke has nage in this position it looks like a bird with it's wings held back.

I guess you don't have to grab near the elbows but that is where I have seen it the most and it seems easiest. So far as I know.

Joe Bowen
04-14-2005, 09:28 PM
Thanks for the replies! Very enlightening, I was wondering what you are using as your reference? Might be something I'm interested in acquiring.

Mashu
04-15-2005, 12:58 PM
I found  羽交い  in the Nelson Japanese-English Character Dictionary. For more ordinary compounds and characters I use Kodansha's Kanji Learner's Dictionary which is an easy to use skip dictionary. And notes I took from class. Many other people I know just have word tanks which are small electronic dictionaries which seem to have it all including cultural references and many other things. If all else fails Google. :)

jester
04-27-2005, 11:40 PM
Ushiro is behind, Jime also pronounced Shime means strangle or choke.

Hagai Jime is basically a Full Nelson. You see this in wrestling and jiu-jitsu a lot.

Hagai is probably refering to the way uke's arms look when he is caught in the hold.

If you don't know wat a Full Nelson is, it's a hold in which both hands are thrust under uke's arms from behind and then locked against the back of the opponent's neck.

A Half Nelson is the same thing, but using only one hand. Your other hand can push out on uke's hips to control him.

jester
04-28-2005, 12:11 AM
Ushiro Kakae-dori is a rear Bear Hug.

Ushiro is from Behind.
I think Kakae means to trap.
Dori means Hold.

An example is the 7th technique in Judo's Goshin-jitsu kata.