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Fred26
04-10-2005, 12:59 AM
The Jo-staff is one of the things I associate with aikido. I've lost track of how many clips I've seen of aikidoka using the Jo.

But as the topic title suggests, I'm curious bout the use of the much longer Bo-staff in aikido. I think I have seen at least one sensei using the Bo, (Mitsugi Saotome I believe).

Is the Bo widely used in "normal" aikido or is it just something you do alongside it rather than implementing it into aikdo like as we do with the Jo?

Fred26
04-12-2005, 05:17 AM
Guess noone knows :)

Chuck.Gordon
04-12-2005, 05:34 AM
AFAIK, there are only a couple of the old deshi who did bo (long staff). Some others may have grafted it onto their jo work at some time, but the rokushakubo simply doesn't appear in most aikido syllabi.

cg

grondahl
04-12-2005, 06:25 AM
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6048&highlight=shingu

Check out the thread about Masakatsu-b jutsu. Or search for Hikitsuchi or Shingu.

David Humm
04-12-2005, 08:20 AM
Kenshiro Abbe was an advocator of the Bo although I don't fully know if this was an integrated practice within his Aiki or, a seperate art.

What I do know however, is that some of the students here in the UK who still follow the Kyu Shin Do martial system which Abbe Sensei brought to the UK, use the Bo within Aikido study.

I have at my dojo a Yari and I regularly use this weapon to illustrate the difficulties in closing Ma-ai. I've found that students who cope with the yari (and they all do eventually) cope very well with the Jo.

Regards

Amir Krause
04-12-2005, 10:17 AM
In Korindo Aikido we have Bo practice for advanced students. To the best of my knowledge, this practice was introduced by one of the Shihans though Hirai Sensei (Korindo Aikido founder) did not practice BO.

Amir

bryce_montgomery
04-12-2005, 12:09 PM
Nicholas Kraus Sensei has posted on his website, http://www.vicksburgaikikai.org/, that many of the techniques performed with the jo, such as those in Aiki jo (aikijojutsu), are not limited to any particular length and can be performed on smaller bo as well as a larger bo, such as used in karate and other martial arts.

In other words, one could use the bo the same as one uses the jo in some instances.

Sorry, that probably didn't hit exactly what you were asking but it's closely related.

Bryce

Fred26
04-13-2005, 04:19 AM
Excellent! Thanks everyone, will be interesting reading :)

theflyingheadbuttsuplex
05-05-2005, 08:21 PM
I would like it if bo techniques were taught in more aikido dojos, but the jo alone gives me enough trouble!:p

aikidoc
05-05-2005, 09:40 PM
Hikitsuchi and Saotome are the only ones I've heard about. One of Hikitsuchi sensei's tapes had a couple of katas on it.

samurai_kenshin
05-06-2005, 07:03 PM
I've been having a bad day over at swordforumbugei, so excuse me if I get a bit short with anyone. First, how long are jo, and bo, just so I can be sure I'm talking about the right thing. Second, sensei teaches a weapons class every wednesday, and she does kumijo and 31 kata/awase, and least, but not least suburi with a staff almost as tall as she is. I'm not sure if this is a jo or a bo, so don't take anything I say seriously until i'm sure.

Chuck.Gordon
05-07-2005, 05:28 AM
Lengths change form system to system, but 'generally',

bo = rokushakubo (about 6 feet or so), some systems use longer staves

jo = the 'standard' Shinto Muso Ryu jo is a bit over 4 feet long, and the style articulates precise measurements for the weapon. In aikido, there is no standard length, but lots of folks use the SMR type stick, becuase it's readily available.

hanbo = half-bo (literally), usually about 3 feet long.

CHuck

samurai_kenshin
05-07-2005, 01:43 PM
in that case, we only use jo in our dojo, I've never seen a 6ft staff inside the dojo at all. BTW, have you ever seen a jo with sanskrit written on it?

Chuck.Gordon
05-08-2005, 03:57 AM
in that case, we only use jo in our dojo, I've never seen a 6ft staff inside the dojo at all. BTW, have you ever seen a jo with sanskrit written on it?

No, but it's probably a matter of taste. There was a time when it was fashionable to engrave sanskrit characters on sword blades to reflect Buddhist values, prayers or meditations.

Chuck

samurai_kenshin
05-09-2005, 10:59 AM
hmm. Actually sensei's requirement for a jo is that it reach to the bottom of the armpit or level with the top of the shoulder. so there is this really tall guy (flexible too...his arm falls the wrong way sometimes) who probably does have a 6-foot jo. His jo is a bo!

Brian Vickery
05-09-2005, 11:12 AM
But as the topic title suggests, I'm curious bout the use of the much longer Bo-staff in aikido. I think I have seen at least one sensei using the Bo, (Mitsugi Saotome I believe).


Bojutsu is part of the curriculum of Toshishiro Obata's Aiki-Buken aikido program. But this seems to be the exception rather then the norm when it comes to most aikido organizations.

Personally I love practicing with the bo, it really enhances my jo practice! If you can learn to control & use a bo, once you switch to a jo, it feels like a feather in you hands & is much easier to control & use!

akiy
05-09-2005, 11:23 AM
Personally I love practicing with the bo, it really enhances my jo practice! If you can learn to control & use a bo, once you switch to a jo, it feels like a feather in you hands & is much easier to control & use!
That's an interesting observation. One observation I've had in doing bo work is that you have to use a bo differently than you would a jo due to its longer length. So, in my experience at least, I have to use more of my body (eg by tucking a third of the bo under my arm) in using the bo than I can get away with in using a jo.

-- Jun

Lorien Lowe
05-09-2005, 04:05 PM
My Sensei, Tom Read, was a student of Hikitsuchi Sensei; he does a lot of bo work, and I think loves the study of bo-work even more than open-hand techniques. Our exams require a lot in the way of stick demonstrations, in addition to the regular requirements. A lot of what he's doing right now looks at how the vibrations of the stick affect the technique, and vice versa.

I've seen him break a stick by throwing a yokomen strike that the stick couldn't handle; it had a spiral fracture at the quarterpoint of the far end. That part of his stick work may not be very practical, but it's amazing to see nontheless.

-LK

tedehara
05-09-2005, 04:05 PM
If I recall correctly, the founder used to practice with the bo. He switched to the jo when he became older. Anyone? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

samurai_kenshin
05-12-2005, 09:57 PM
If I recall correctly, the founder used to practice with the bo. He switched to the jo when he became older. Anyone? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong!!! Just kidding! Actually, I think I've heard that too someplace. I can't remember where, so DONT QUOTE ME ON IT!!!

Aikilove
05-13-2005, 02:57 AM
Well it seems like he mainly practices with the yari (or spear, longer than the jo and with a sharp point at one end) and the bayonet before WWII. My guess is that during the Iwama years, general budo ban and all that, he skipped the bayonet and got rid of the spear. I guess he kept on practicing same (or similar stuff) with a jo instead. Easy enough to do similar moves as with the sword, but also the same idea as the spear and bayonet etc.

Maybe I just should keep training and not think so much about these sort of things...
Back to suburi!