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Justin Gaar
03-04-2005, 10:58 AM
Hey everybody,
I know many of us are buddhist. I am a vehement buddhist. However, I wonder, if the modern world has made some aspects of the buddhist faith (any school) either near impossible or impossible to take up. I mean, I don't know if strong buddhist could take part in a modern executive world. I know at this point this question seems... I guess the simplest word is "stupid" but i'm reading this book, "Buddhist for Beginners" By Thubten Chodron. Ok now i know how i'm going to say it. I don't know if it's even near possible for a buddhist to survive in the modern world. I mean, can succeed in an executive world? Whats your opinion.
Later
Justin Gaar
:ki:

Qatana
03-04-2005, 11:50 AM
In my experience Buddhists don't use avatars depicting violent acts.

Justin Gaar
03-04-2005, 11:57 AM
Wow..... Omm...... I'm sorry....... I didn't realize.
It's gone

Justin Gaar
03-04-2005, 12:10 PM
Anyway, all confrontational users who just want to talk about my "avatars" aside, anybody else with a PRODUCTIVE opinion?

malsmith
03-04-2005, 04:46 PM
i dont think buddhists can survive in the modern world... we are too selfish and we are motivated by the totally wrong things and dont think about spirituality at all. (or at least the average joe walking down the street wouldnt be thinking about it)
in my opinion

Qatana
03-05-2005, 04:29 PM
But Mal, the average person walking down the street is probably Not a Buddhist.
Buddhists DO try to think, and live, spiritually.As well as they can. Of course I've met many people who call themselves Buddhists that have to make the right Impression, present the Spiritual Appearance, and mouth a lot of Buddhist platitudes all for their own ego-gratification.
Living as a Buddhist in this country in this century will of course appear vastly different than a person living as a Buddhist a hundred years ago, but unless you go off to live a life of renunciation, trying to walk a Middle Path in all things is a pretty good start.

Kevin Leavitt
03-08-2005, 04:14 PM
What is a vehement buddhist anyway? Just curious. Didn't realize there were some buddhist that considered themselves "more buddhist" than others. Kinda of a paradox if you ask me since a "real buddhist" that is, meaning genuine in thoughts and actions really wouldn't even consider a label of "buddhist" anyway. Not looking for a fight or anything, just find it interesting that you would use the word vehement.

I think one tenant of buddhism is allowing people to follow the path and make choices about there spirituality and what works for them. I consider myself buddhist, but would never wear it as a label. Thict Nhat Hahn, who I would consider someone that would meet the success criteria of a traditional buddhist living in the modern world is pretty clear about choices and paths and says that there is no right one. Also, I think he has demonstrated that it is possible to survive and be buddhist in the modern world.

I feel pretty comfortable with myself as a buddhist, and I do that as a American Soldier, Airborne, Infanry, Ranger all the way and I train troops to go "down range" to fight wars as an Opposing Forces for our troops. You can find ways to influence peace in many ways and in every situation. Everybody's practice and situation allows for growth and the chance to become better and influence others. We all start out in different situations with different Karma. We all have a choices about how we deal with it. To me this is the point of buddhism.

Don_Modesto
03-08-2005, 06:13 PM
Hey everybody,
I know many of us are buddhist. I am a vehement buddhist. However, I wonder, if the modern world has made some aspects of the buddhist faith (any school) either near impossible or impossible to take up. I mean, I don't know if strong buddhist could take part in a modern executive world. I know at this point this question seems... I guess the simplest word is "stupid" but i'm reading this book, "Buddhist for Beginners" By Thubten Chodron. Ok now i know how i'm going to say it. I don't know if it's even near possible for a buddhist to survive in the modern world. I mean, can succeed in an executive world? Whats your opinion.
Later
Justin Gaar
:ki:

Do only Buddhists get to agonize here?...hints of camels going through the eye of a needle, here...

When could anyone of conscience live uncompromised?

Justin Gaar
03-09-2005, 11:35 AM
Hey everyone,
Just wanted to say that when i said i was a vehement buddhist i never meant to infer that i was more of a buddhist then anyone else. I just meant to say that i was very strong in my faith and that i was worried about my faith in this modern world. I do realize that no one is more a buddhist then any other buddhist. I'm sorry if that was the impression i left. If at anytime i offend anyone on this board, which i'm sure at some point i will, please let me know. I would be glad to talk it out peacefully.

SeiserL
03-09-2005, 12:56 PM
IMHO, wisdom and compassion is always possible.

How do you let an external executive world stop you?

Bronson
03-09-2005, 10:55 PM
Hey Justin,

I'm not picking on you, but something you wrote caught my attention and got me thinking (look out, I'm in unfamiliar territory :D ).

I just meant to say that i was very strong in my faith and that i was worried about my faith in this modern world.

By "worried about your faith" do you mean that you are worried that Buddhism as a whole is endangered by the modern age. Or are you worried that you as an individiual may not be able to hold up your faith in modern society? In my experience the people who have true conviction in their faith (not saying you don't) have little fear of their ability to uphold it. Admittedly these people are few but I've met a couple. Very confident in their faith while at the same time not overbearing about it to those who don't follow it.

Bronson

david evans
03-10-2005, 07:31 AM
i dont think buddhists can survive in the modern world... we are too selfish and we are motivated by the totally wrong things and dont think about spirituality at all. (or at least the average joe walking down the street wouldnt be thinking about it)
in my opinion

The average joe might be me. I think

There is no "average joe" anymore.

david evans
03-10-2005, 07:33 AM
Anyway, all confrontational users who just want to talk about my "avatars" aside, anybody else with a PRODUCTIVE opinion?

It's the use of your word "vehement".

Justin Gaar
03-10-2005, 09:56 AM
To reply to the guy that said something i said caught his attention, it's not that i'm unsure of my faith it's that i am dead set in following it. But I want to be succesful in the business world. The two seem to be polar opposites.

Thomas Ambrose
04-07-2005, 06:13 PM
Justin, I will admit that I know next to nothing about Buddhism. I am trying to learn a bit about Zen, but for some reason that seems like it can stand apart from Buddhism, though it seems directly related...

...but anyway, I was born and raised Catholic, tried Atheism and then Protestantism during college. Today, I would probably say I am Catholic, but it is in the most general sense. I follow my own spiritual path without strict affiliations, which allows me to have flexibility in my beliefs as I grown and gain experience.

I suppose a difference might be that you are stronger (vehement) in your faith and I am not about mine. Despite the difference, I do find things that I desire or strive for to be somewhat incompatible with what are very powerful spiritual principles to me, which if I understand is the dilemma you are facing. What I do, is accept my life and position within society for what it is, and take it in to experience it, directing it towards what I think is ultimately best.

For example, because I come from an average, middle class upbringing in white suburbia, I have had opportunities. I was able to get into, and afford to go to a decent college. Others equally or more gifted as myself in ability but not so in societal status have not had the same opportunity. This is not right, but what should I do? I embrace the opportunity I have been given, and try to direct it towards what would be "best." I try to "earn" the opportunity after the fact by applying it towards what I believe is a greater good.

For you, if you do seek success in the executive world, and achieve it, could you serve as an example to others of one who takes their success with responsibility? I do not know much about Buddhism, but supposing that it is difficult for Buddhism to be compatible with the modern direction of society, couldn't the Buddhist participate in
the modern executive society, remain true to his/her principles, and leave a small but noticeable impact on those they interact with? Ultimately, if more people stuck to the principles of whatever spiritual faith they followed and participated in all aspects of society, imagine how different the world would be!

Anyway, just a bunch of rambling thoughts that came through my head as I thought about what you said and compared to my own experiences. Remember, I know next to nothing about Buddhism :)

xuzen
04-07-2005, 11:32 PM
Hey everybody,
I know many of us are Buddhist. I am a vehement Buddhist. However, I wonder, if the modern world has made some aspects of the Buddhist faith (any school) either near impossible or impossible to take up. I mean, I don't know if strong Buddhist could take part in a modern executive world. I know at this point this question seems... I guess the simplest word is "stupid" but I'm reading this book, "Buddhist for Beginners" By Thirteen Chorion. OK now i know how I'm going to say it. I don't know if it's even near possible for a Buddhist to survive in the modern world. I mean, can succeed in an executive world? Whats your opinion.
Later
Justin Agar
:ki:

Hello Justin,

Siddhartha Gautama Sakhyamuni, the founder and great patriarch of the teaching of Buddhism through his own studies and enlightenment found out 4 noble truth and then prescribed 8 noble precepts that he hope will help all human kind achieve enlightenment themselves. He did not specify any dogma. It is up to you to realized and navigate around the precepts to live in this modern world. He did not state that by contravening the precepts you will go to hell and burn for eternity yadda yadda. He merely states that you will not achieve nirvana and your soul will merely be rebirth to the mortal world until you learn and comply with the precepts.

Can a Buddhist survive in a modern executive world? Sure, why not, many business executive in the far east are Buddhist. CEO's MD, GM are Buddhist as well; it is just we don't have to see things in a black and white format; that makes life easier.

Oh one more thing for your thoughts... to string a bow too tight, it breaks; too loose and it will not shoot the arrow. The correct method is being just right, i.e., THE MIDDLE PATH (always live in moderation), i.e, another lessons thought to Buddhist.

Hope this help. Chill and peace.

Boon.

Sue Hammerich
04-08-2005, 12:29 AM
Hey Justin - I am not a Buddhist (or anything else,for that matter). Thomas up there knows far more than I .But here are some thoughts..I don't know that anyone expects Buddhist to be perfect; just to follow the four noble truths and wight concepts. (I admit, one of the reasons that I can't call myself a Buddhist is because I am an incredibly flawed individual)
And.....I REALLY don't want to start anything, really I don't. But in regards to some earlier messages...what avatar? Where? I missed it and don't know what y'all were talking about....do you have an avatar?

Sue Hammerich
04-08-2005, 12:37 AM
Oh, and after all - you say you want to be a success. "Success" can be defined in many ways; it depends upon your definition. I'm not sure that you should necessarily avoid the business world if you think it may conflict what you understand as Buddhism. I'm sure it's been done. If not - why can't you be the first? What is the saying.."If not me, who? If not now, when?"

Justin Gaar
04-08-2005, 10:14 AM
Hey Sue,
I had an avatar of one smiley hitting the other over the head with a hammer.

Kevin Leavitt
04-08-2005, 01:41 PM
Hey Justin - I am not a Buddhist (or anything else,for that matter). Thomas up there knows far more than I .But here are some thoughts..I don't know that anyone expects Buddhist to be perfect; just to follow the four noble truths and wight concepts. (I admit, one of the reasons that I can't call myself a Buddhist is because I am an incredibly flawed individual)
And.....I REALLY don't want to start anything, really I don't. But in regards to some earlier messages...what avatar? Where? I missed it and don't know what y'all were talking about....do you have an avatar?


Wow...that makes you soooo much a buddhist! Buddhism is not so much a matter of believe or faith, but what actions you take and how you live your life. Recognizing that you have flaws is one step! There are many people that do not consider themselves buddhist, that are actually buddhist if you measured them against the four noble truths and the eight fold path. It is the religion of non-religion!

Wouldn't be so concerned about your avatar, there are bigger things to be concerned about.