I think I'm done with Aikido

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[mortaltortle]

Lots of people wonder about the reasons behind someone doing a fair bit of Aikido and then just dropping off the face of the planet and not going to class anymore. Maybe I can enlighten some of you because I am literally inches away from quitting.

To understand why and how I am ending my Aikido career you have to know how I began. I started out as a severly unhappy, overweight nerd with nothing in my life except my job and an interest in computers and videogames. I always had all kinds of inferiority complexes and other issues. I decided that Aikido is just the thing I need to get me out of this rut and for a good 2 years it did.

At first I approached Aikido in a couple of vastly "overdriven" ways, overhumble, over-sycophantic to the wise senior students and all-knowing sensei and over enthusiastic, afterall, this was all new and fresh and interesting.

I never knew how to fight and defend myself, well okay I knew how to throw a punch or kick someone but never understood the context wherein these actions become acceptable and even necessary, Aikido taught me this.

I never understood what it is like to live in a healthy, fit body and be able to at will flex and contract muscles that you never even knew you had, Aikido taught me this.

The problem is that I have outgrown it, whatever vacuum existed in my life that I felt had to be filled with Aikido has since been filled with a sense of self-worth, self-pride, self-confidence and a sense of purpose. In a way my life is now full and Aikido is nothing more to me than a fun diversion every once in a while, I dont take it as seriously anymore, I cant realy and I feel I am doing myself and my fellow students a disservice by only showing up once a week or so whenever I have the motivation to train Aikido.

A further issue I used to have is that my training in Aikido felt like it was towards some definite purpose, recently I started realising that whatever violent fantasies of me saving someone (while breaking a miscreant's limb or two) I had were just that, fantasies. The energy and intensity that I had while still serious about Aikido is probably better spent on something where I can actually "test my mettle" so to speak and get a good amount of feedback on any improvements I make and setbacks I encounter in my training. I feel strongly that grappling arts suit me just fine, infact, I enjoy grappling emmensely and love learning and then applying new holds and locks so I am hoping to start some grappling art soon.

[Don_Modesto]

....I have outgrown it, whatever vacuum existed in my life that I felt had to be filled with Aikido has since been filled with a sense of self-worth, self-pride, self-confidence and a sense of purpose. In a way my life is now full....I feel strongly that grappling arts suit me just fine, infact, I enjoy grappling emmensely and love learning and then applying new holds and locks so I am hoping to start some grappling art soon.

Congratulations and good luck!

[Joe Bowen]

Dear Anonymous,

Allow me to play the "devil's Advocate" evileyes for you.

I started out as a severely unhappy, overweight nerd with nothing in my life except my job and an interest in computers and videogames. I always had all kinds of inferiority complexes and other issues. I decided that Aikido is just the thing I need to get me out of this rut and for a good 2 years it did….I never knew how to fight and defend myself, well okay I knew how to throw a punch or kick someone but never understood the context wherein these actions become acceptable and even necessary, Aikido taught me this. I never understood what it is like to live in a healthy, fit body and be able to at will flex and contract muscles that you never even knew you had, Aikido taught me this. .

Two years from a severely overweight, nerd with no concept of fighting to a fit body, lean mean warrior machine, great job dude! :rolleyes: Rhetorically, exactly how much fat did you lose and how much muscle mass did you gain? Only from doing Aikido? You must have trained every day during those two years to burn up the calories like that. I mean I've been teaching Aikido for a while and I'll tell you that two years, coming to class 2-3 times a week, rarely would produce such results. And to top it off, you've really got to be on the ball to pick up and distill a lifetimes worth of knowledge in two years. :rolleyes:

The problem is that I have outgrown it, whatever vacuum existed in my life that I felt had to be filled with Aikido has since been filled with a sense of self-worth, self-pride, self-confidence and a sense of purpose. In a way my life is now full and Aikido is nothing more to me than a fun diversion every once in a while, I don't take it as seriously anymore…. A further issue I used to have is that my training in Aikido felt like it was towards some definite purpose, recently I started realizing that whatever violent fantasies of me saving someone (while breaking a miscreant's limb or two) I had were just that, fantasies. The energy and intensity that I had while still serious about Aikido is probably better spent on something where I can actually "test my mettle" so to speak and get a good amount of feedback on any improvements I make and setbacks I encounter in my training. I feel strongly that grappling arts suit me just fine, infact, I enjoy grappling emmensely and love learning and then applying new holds and locks so I am hoping to start some grappling art soon.

Aikido filled the void? And, now you have a feeling of self-worth, self-pride, self-confidence and a sense of purpose so you don't need Aikido anymore. Interesting, so, what is the purpose that you have this sense of? Want to "test your mettle" and perhaps get a few awards or trophies to put on the self? Since Aikido doesn't have competitions, you can't "test your mettle" by beating someone else. Perhaps you missed the point of "true victory, self victory". What will happen to your self-pride and self-worth, when you start to lose your mettle-testing competitions? The true path of Budo has nothing to do with external accolades. That is why Aikido is not too popular with people who need a whole lot of attention. There are no medals or trophies to display, only your practice and the continuation of your practice, until you cannot practice anymore. :dead:
Did you really out grow Aikido, or did you regress to a point where you realized that you can, with a little sweat and determination, have a healthy, fit body, and now you want to go back a re-live some of those things that you wished you could have done when you were younger, and fatter. Maybe score a little better with the "chicks" too, eh? If that is what you need, go get them and best of luck to you. But, one word of caution, we (human beings) are the best in the world at self-delusion. Don't worry too much though, Aikido folks are generally very forgiving, so I'm sure the door will still be open for you if you ever decide to grow up……. :D

[PeterR]

Wanting to test the mettle is just fine. Go for it.

You've decided Aikido isn't for you - also fine. Enjoy your next adventure.

One question.

I feel strongly that grappling arts suit me just fine, infact, I enjoy grappling emmensely and love learning and then applying new holds and locks so I am hoping to start some grappling art soon.
How do you know when you haven't done any.

Thinks everyone should explore outside their own art and that it takes time to find what your own art actually is.

PS I test my mettle in Aikido all the time.

[SeiserL]

Bow respectfully as you leave the mat. We bow back and wish you well on your journey.

[Greg Jennings]

Outgrown aikido in two years? Don't let the doorknob hit you in the butt on the way out.

[NagaBaba]

Judo or BJJ looks like good choice. Once you got broken and hurt permanently(it will happen, don't worry!), don't forget to come say hello to your first aikido instructor ;) :) :)
You know, etiquette thing.

[danae oaks]

thats great if you want to stop and or try somthing new for a change. i have to admit bjj is ausome and i to love grappling but make sure its what you really want.i kinda know how you feel because i to felt i wanted to quit and so did my friends and they did leave.i stayed for some weird reason and its been a year and a half since then.i to started screwing around with it and tryed to have fun with it.and by the way martial arts tought me courage ,confedence,and changed my life i dont know what i would of done without it.but some were in that span of time i learned a great deal of its true art and learned some things that i cant explain and maybe with you to ,your just not being chalanged.also the hole nerd and over weight thing ,that was how my instructor started and actually hated martial arts.but its differint for everyone and maybe aikido wasnt right for you or maybe it was the manner in wich you were tought.ill tell you im a mixed martial artist thats why i cant tell you im aikido because thats just one of many diff. styles im learning.so good luck on your way just make sure because some things can get bad before they get better.

[DaveO]

To everyone responding negatively, to each his own! What one finds in one thing may not be what another finds. Anonymous found in aikido a way to help him get fit, find purpose and gain interest in physical activity - I think that's great! If he chooses not to follow aikido now; let him find enjoyment wherever he sees fit. It was a fine post and I for one wish him well. :)

[aikidoc]

Perhaps aikido was just not the art for you. However, the one question I have is how can you outgrow something you can't possibly understand in just 2 years?

[PeterR]

Perhaps he was just talking about the "need" Aikido supplied for him - not Aikido per se.

[Janet Rosen]

Perhaps aikido was just not the art for you. However, the one question I have is how can you outgrow something you can't possibly understand in just 2 years?
I am not him, but sometimes in my life I have been a serious beginner in (insert whatever) for months or years, and realized that I'd gotten from it *what I could at that time*, that it was no longer compelling to me or speaking to me and it was time to move on.

[Huker]

By the sounds of your post, you've already made up your mind about the whole thing. I regret to see someone turn from an art geared to peace for one that is probably geared to conflict, but I wish you luck and hope for your return.

[PeterR]

By the sounds of your post, you've already made up your mind about the whole thing. I regret to see someone turn from an art geared to peace for one that is probably geared to conflict, but I wish you luck and hope for your return.
Well that is a huge assumption - reeking of pretension.

[CNYMike]

[ton of bricks]
..... The problem is that I have outgrown it, whatever vacuum existed in my life that I felt had to be filled with Aikido has since been filled with a sense of self-worth, self-pride, self-confidence and a sense of purpose. In a way my life is now full and Aikido is nothing more to me than a fun diversion every once in a while, I dont take it as seriously anymore ......

And what's wrong with doing something because it's a "fun diversion"? People are having heart attacks, strokes, and nervous breakdowns because they DON'T have enough "fun diversions."

..... I used to have is that my training in Aikido felt like it was towards some definite purpose, recently I started realising that whatever violent fantasies of me saving someone (while breaking a miscreant's limb or two) I had were just that, fantasies. The energy and intensity that I had while still serious about Aikido is probably better spent on something where I can actually "test my mettle" so to speak and get a good amount of feedback on any improvements I make and setbacks I encounter in my training. I feel strongly that grappling arts suit me just fine, infact, I enjoy grappling emmensely and love learning and then applying new holds and locks so I am hoping to start some grappling art soon.

UFC, here we come!
:p :)

One final thought:

There are people who have done Aikido fo 40, 50, or 60 years, and they still feel they are just getting the hang of it. The same goes for people in other martial arts. Something to consider when thinking that you've learned all you can after two.
[/ton of bricks]

[altered_carbon]

it's all one big TROLL.

[stuartjvnorton]

Did you mean "I've outgrown my previous need for something like Aikido"?
Good on you: it takes some self-awareness to see that.

Outgrowing aikido itself is another animal altogether.
Most of us struggle to even understand it, let alone outgrow it. You should write a book.

[Bradence]

It's interesting that we feel the need to respond to someone saying that aikido is easy or that a person's energy could be better spent on something else. It's interesting that there is a temptation to view such a statement as an attack or a foolish choice. I completely understand the impulse because I feel it as well, but I also feel that this impulse is an indication that I am trying to convince myself, at least partially, that the study of Aikido is a worthwhile endeavour. If I truly believed this and was self-assured then I could answer like Mr. Modesto and Mr. Seiser.

I hope to one day have the experience and confidence to share in this belief.

Brad

[PeterR]

Well I did three years of Nippon Kempo and got a lot out of it. More fit, more confident and even more dates (for a science geek that is a major plus). But I grew out of it. My needs changed and after a little more experimentation finally settled on Aikido.

Those giving Anon a hard time could easily say the same thing about me and anyone else whose journey to Aikido was a bit convoluted. To those who are critical and have done Aikido and only Aikido - I say you need to get out more.

[happysod]

Anon, nice post, thanks for the info and good luck with your next project.

[Nick P.]

1-To each their own
2-Some would say that now that there is no goal in your training that the true learning can commence.

[SeiserL]

I once asked, what do you do if someone lets go of the grab. The answer was, there is no attack so move on.

If he has made his choice, which is his right, why are we still holding hold. What in us will not accept that different people think differently, decide differently, and make different choices?

IMHO, it depends the goals you set. Once you meet those goals, you have outgrown the pursuit and move on or you set new and higher goals and move on. It sounds like for his needs and wants, once met, he has outgrown his need for Aikido.

[bryce_montgomery]

I second what Seiser Sensei said...

Good luck Anon...

Bryce

[kironin]

I started out as a severly unhappy, overweight nerd with nothing in my life except my job and an interest in computers and videogames. I always had all kinds of inferiority complexes and other issues. I decided that Aikido is just the thing I need to get me out of this rut and for a good 2 years it did.
...
I never knew how to fight and defend myself, well okay I knew how to throw a punch or kick someone but never understood the context wherein these actions become acceptable and even necessary, Aikido taught me this.

I never understood what it is like to live in a healthy, fit body and be able to at will flex and contract muscles that you never even knew you had, Aikido taught me this.



Wonderful, can I use this endorsement in Aikido advertisements ? :D

as to Aikido being a gateway drug to budo, fine, move on.

we all go through phases in life. I am glad Aikido helped you.

[NixNa]

I did leave Aikido before and returned. Leaving it now doesnt mean you wont come back to it again. So have fun and try as many arts as u like, its always good to cross train. Someday we hope to see u back on the Aiki path again, cheers ;) :ai: :ki: :do:

[raul rodrigo]

If you don't mind my asking, how good are you? Or rather, how much progress have you made in the art? I ask because I ran into a long (three years) lull in my practice, where I was simply not getting any better. I wasnt terrible, but I wasnt really getting to where my sensei wanted. It was during most of my second kyu and first kyu years, and I seriously considered leaving a couple of times. (Then for some reason I don't understand, I made several breakthroughs, but thats another story.) Does a perceived lack of progress have anything to do with your decision?

[aikidoc]

I am not him, but sometimes in my life I have been a serious beginner in (insert whatever) for months or years, and realized that I'd gotten from it *what I could at that time*, that it was no longer compelling to me or speaking to me and it was time to move on.

To me and perhaps only me, if you truly connect with an art it will always speak to you. But, that may just be me. I first tried karate and then some tae kwon do. They didn't connect. Then I stumbled across aikido. Even though I was initially only able to train for a short time in the beginning, 15 years later it still connected with me and I returned-never to leave again. The reason I did not train was due to school and family issues not because the art was not appealing. Although I've been lambasted for this statement before, some arts are not simply suited for some people.

[Bronson]

some arts are not simply suited for some people.

I'd agree. Aikido is there for anybody who wants it. There are other things for those who want other things. I don't see the big deal in somebody leaving Aikido...people do it all the time in all endeavors and the world hasn't stopped rotating yet.

Bronson

[Kevin Kelly]

People come and go for whatever reason. I see our student roster shrink and grow. I would think after a couple of years he/she should be at least 3rd/2nd kyu. By the way, where is anon?

[Kevin Leavitt]

I don't think it is so much reaching an understanding and full knowledge of aikido, but reaching and understanding of self and how it relates to aikido. to me it is not about understanding the art, but the artist. Sounds like he reached that for himself.

[Aristeia]

I'm stunned at some of the responses. Anon has come on to give us information we rarely get, an explanation of why someone that's trained beyond the beginner stage suddenly no longer shows up. His reasons make sense, we've all been through lulls in our training so it can't be that hard to extrapolate to the position he finds himself in.
And then we hear people telling him that his decision to try another art, to try his hand at sparring, to widen his journey beyond what he started at means he needs to grow up?? It is implied that he is too focused on glory and trophies and is somehow deficient because his path is not our path? He never claimed that his reasons for leaving was because he thinks he's completed the system, just that he feels he personally has got what he needed from it, and yet he gets slammed for leaving so soon (2 years is not that soon). And told in what I read to be a snide tone that he will get injured and broken in another art.

I'll tell ya, if I was new to aikido some of these responses would have turned me right off. Pretentious, superior, condescending nonesense.

[Don_Modesto]

It's interesting that there is a temptation to view such a statement as an attack or a foolish choice.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7485

By the way, where is anon?
:)

Seems his was a public service announcement and he wasn't soliciting feedback! LOL.

[maikerus]

Seems his was a public service announcement and he wasn't soliciting feedback! LOL.

It was suggested that anyone who replies to this thread pay "Troll Fees" <--- That's a pun ;)

--Michael...tossing his few yen into the pot

[Huker]

Well that is a huge assumption - reeking of pretension.

Peter, I didn't mean to sound pretentious when I said that it sounds as if he has made up his mind (I'm assuming that's what you meant--am I right?). It sounds like Anonymous isn't getting what he wants to out of Aikido anymore. That means that one some level he's probably already decided to find something more satisfying. As a matter of fact, he has said that he is unmotivated and that he is "inches away from quitting". Also, since he has already taken a more motivated interest in grappling arts, it looks like he has made up his mind. My belief that he has made up his mind is based entirely on things that Anonymous has said and is not an assumption at all, just a conclusion. Maybe I am wrong, but please try and see my point.

[PeterR]

Peter, I didn't mean to sound pretentious when I said that it sounds as if he has made up his mind (I'm assuming that's what you meant--am I right?). It sounds like Anonymous isn't getting what he wants to out of Aikido anymore. That means that one some level he's probably already decided to find something more satisfying. As a matter of fact, he has said that he is unmotivated and that he is "inches away from quitting". Also, since he has already taken a more motivated interest in grappling arts, it looks like he has made up his mind. My belief that he has made up his mind is based entirely on things that Anonymous has said and is not an assumption at all, just a conclusion. Maybe I am wrong, but please try and see my point.
Hi Tanner;

Basically I was reacting to the

someone turn from an art geared to peace for one that is probably geared to conflict

part of your post. It's a sentiment that is often expressed by Aikido people which has evolved into a bit of a hot button issue with me. It's not just you - please don't see my statement as a flame focused on you alone.

I find it aggravating any suggestion that Aikido is a technically and morally a superior art and that by leaving old Anon is turning away from the light. I'm pretty hard core Aikido (its what I do) but I am the first to admit that Aikido is not for everyone, that there are perfectly valid alternatives out there, and it is far better for someone to explore than be stuck in an unsuitable situation.

And for the record the Troll pun was mine (in Chat) and it took Michael a certain (I'll never tell) time to understand it. I think the original poster is a bit of a troll - but reasonably clever and useful.

[Erik]

Uber-wise, super smart, brilliant student, "I outgrew bjj and decided to take aikido",

alternatively

knucklehead, "I outgrew aikido and decided to take bjj".

Whatever! :rolleyes:

[CNYMike]

I once asked, what do you do if someone lets go of the grab. The answer was, there is no attack so move on.

If he has made his choice, which is his right, why are we still holding hold. What in us will not accept that different people think differently, decide differently, and make different choices?

IMHO, it depends the goals you set. Once you meet those goals, you have outgrown the pursuit and move on or you set new and higher goals and move on. It sounds like for his needs and wants, once met, he has outgrown his need for Aikido.

Good points. :o And I'm one to talk -- Back in the '80s, I dropped out of Aikido after only two years, although not for the same reasons Anon had. :o :o

That said, a couple of things he said bugged me, and I covered them in my original post. You have good points, but I hope you see where I'm coming from here.

[mortaltortle]

Hi, incase you were all wondering, I am the thread starter.

Thanks for the positive feedback to my decision, also thanks for the negative feedback. I wont dwell on those individuals that still live in the fantasy kingdom where their martial art is the best, this thread is not about you.

During my two years of Aikido I did have a chance to experiment informally with several students who where either cross training from another martial art or decided to quit their previous art and try Aikido for a while. I had a taste of many martial arts and many different varieties of Aikido from different teachers.

Honestly though, bjj is not the grappling art I was going for, infact, it would be amateur wrestling, there is a little catch-wrestling club that never gets attention from the "serious" martial artists, maybe its not mystical or oriental enough for them but I was seriously impressed with the ingenious holds and locks that one of the ex-catch wrestlers put on me. Mind blowing stuff for someone who always thought that groundwork involves sitting on your knees and duckwalking.

To the person inquiring about how "good" I am, how would I know, I never managed to test myself against a realisticaly out-to-get me opponent, gradings were probably the closest to this and even then it was always utterly co-operative. In that time I never failed a grading and was even praised once for having "exceptional intensity" (3rd kyu by the way)

To the person rolling their eyes (on the internet) at my claiming to have lost weight and gained fitness in the two years of Aikido, why not? I was 20 lbs overweight, no muscle tone, zero endurance, now I am at my ideal weight, actual muscle tone, lots of endurance. Its not impossible in a span of only two years.

[Douglas Wong]

hi,

i've been reading all the posts here and there are some very interesting comments made. i for one would definitely suggest that you do what you feel is of benefit to you. If there is another martial art out there that has caught your attention, it is only right that you go out there and give it a go. You never know, the 2 years of aikido training could contribute to your new endeavour. Aikido is more than just techniques on the mat, it helps develop a certain way of thinking i.e taisabaki or body movement that could be useful to you in catch-wrestling. Who knows, you might be able to pick up loads of useful techiniques from catch-wrestling and putting it into your aikido or vice versa. Again, when you leave something it doesnt mean its gone forever, you take what you've learn and try to use it to help in your new martial art. if it doesnt work for you, you could always come back to aikido. All the best!!

[Avery Jenkins]

Hey, Anon,

Good for you! Wrestling sounds like a blast, enjoy. I'm glad Aikido got you going, ignore the naysayers. Heck, I've quit 3 or 4 times during a single class!

Avery

[CNYMike]

Hi, incase you were all wondering, I am the thread starter.

Thanks for the positive feedback to my decision, also thanks for the negative feedback ....

You're welcome.

.... I wont dwell on those individuals that still live in the fantasy kingdom where their martial art is the best, this thread is not about you.


Well, then, it's ok, because I'm not one of them. I've been back in Aikido for almost a year, but in the mean time I have trained in and am still training in Karate, Kali, Pentjak Silat Serak, and Tai Chi. So you could say I am busy most evenings.


During my two years of Aikido I did have a chance to experiment informally with several students who where either cross training from another martial art or decided to quit their previous art and try Aikido for a while. I had a taste of many martial arts and many different varieties of Aikido from different teachers.

Honestly though, bjj is not the grappling art I was going for, infact, it would be amateur wrestling, there is a little catch-wrestling club that never gets attention from the "serious" martial artists, maybe its not mystical or oriental enough for them but I was seriously impressed with the ingenious holds and locks that one of the ex-catch wrestlers put on me. Mind blowing stuff for someone who always thought that groundwork involves sitting on your knees and duckwalking.


Mind a little free advice?

If you can -- meaning not constrained my time, money, or the cows your teachers would be having -- see if you can do both Aikido and the wrestling club for a while. It may be that you are having a case of burnout, which happens periodically to martial artists. I ran into that the same thing myself when I first did Aikido back in the '80s. At the time I signed on with Sensei Jim Wallace's Seidokan class, I had been doing shito-ryu karate-do for about a year-and-a-half. Well, that's about the first time you experiece burnout, which may explains why for a few weeks I thought Aikido was great and was ready to drop karate. But being a creature of habit I continued in both arts and worked through my burnout, which is the only thing you can do about it.

Now, it is true that in '88 or so, I dropped out of Aikido, looks like the two year point, but that's not the issue here. The point is your desire to drop Aikido may be a result of burnout, which is perfectly natural for martial artists (and also of great concern, because it's the source of the 90% dropout rate). Also, if you have come as far as you say you have, your sensei would probably hate to lose you. And I'd wager you've made friends in your dojo who'd miss you, too. (One incentive for resumign Aikido was I'd hoped to meet some of the people who'd been in Sensei Jim's dojo before he went to Colgate and the dojo imploded, but no one I know from those days is there, I think.)

So I would suggest that when you join the wrestling club, stay with Aikido at least once a week, and keep that up for a couple of months. See how you feel about Aikido then and then decide what you want to do.

My mother always counseled me against making rash decisions; I think that may be a good idea in this case. Do both for a bit, see how you feel, and then decide. And as to your muscle memory getting to be like a messed up hard drive, that's your problem. :)



To the person inquiring about how "good" I am, how would I know, I never managed to test myself against a realisticaly out-to-get me opponent, gradings were probably the closest to this and even then it was always utterly co-operative. In that time I never failed a grading and was even praised once for having "exceptional intensity" (3rd kyu by the way)


Unless you move to a bad neighborhood and get into at least one fight every day, you never will. Even freestyle grappling is -- or SHOULD BE --- done with safety as a prime consideration. They may resist and counter but I'd hardly call that "out to get you."

But remember that praise you got on your test? The people who said that will probably be sad to see you go if you switch. Another reason to cross-train for a bit and then decide; it's not all about you.

[Aristeia]

Mind a little free advice?

If you can -- meaning not constrained my time, money, or the cows your teachers would be having -- see if you can do both Aikido and the wrestling club for a while. It may be that you are having a case of burnout, which happens periodically to martial artists. .

This I agree with. The burnout factor is exceedingly common, we've all gone through it. I found that when I started my cross training in BJJ evetnually it re-fired my passion for Aikido. Groundfighting arts I think are a particularly good compliment to Aikido and you may find you enjoy playing with how the two will blend into each other. Also the philosophy of the techniques may be somewhat similar but the "feeling" of the arts is different, primarily because of the sparring vs non sparring aspect. For that reason it can be nice to go straight from a grappling class to an Aikido class - change is as good as a rest and all that.

[Bryan]

I'll tell ya, if I was new to aikido some of these responses would have turned me right off. Pretentious, superior, condescending nonesense.

I agree with Michael. I've only been at Aikido for a bit over 6 months so I'm still a beginner. This thread turns me off from this community. Perhaps I have not yet grasped the spiritual side of Aikido, but some of these responses seem to contradict what I thought Aikido was teaching me.

I hope anon finds his passion again, whatever art/style he takes on.

[Qatana]

Bryan, don't judge aikido by an internet discussion. Maybe stop reading them for a while, and just go train. Or conversely, go surf around some of the other boards, both aikido specific and martial arts in general.
This is definitly the most civil and supportive of them all, and believe it or not, most of those negative posts were people being as supportive as they possibly can.

I'm pretty sure if I had actually arrived at the first aikido class i Tried to attend 19 years ago( I got lost on the way to the dojo) I would not have stuck with it. I was just not ready, and I'm sure thats why I let myself get lost that night. I'm really glad i finally got there!

[Bryan]

Bryan, don't judge aikido by an internet discussion.

I wasn't judging Aikido, just some of the posts in this thread.

[mriehle]

I don't know that I agree with the overall tone of some of the responses here and I definitely am not in the camp that believes Aikido is the Ultimage Martial Art, but...

...well...

...the tone of the thread starter kind of bugs me too.

It's hard to put my finger on exactly what bugs me, but the word pretentious was used in regard to one of his detractors. It's close to the correct word for our buddy anon. I hope he didn't intend to sound that way, but it kind of felt like he might have.

Another great point was made about it not being all about him. As a teacher I've had students leave for many reasons. Sometimes it was just personal, they didn't like me. Sometimes they felt like they weren't getting what they needed. Sometimes life was getting in the way.

It always bugs me when someone leaves, I feel like I've failed them in some way. But it's a lot easier for me when they tell me why and I can come to accept that they do have good reasons. It's easier, in fact, even if I don't agree that their reasons are good ones.

When they just stop showing up, I worry about why. What could I have done to make the art more worthwhile for them? Anything? Maybe not, but how will I know if they don't say anything to me?

[raul rodrigo]

[QUOTE=Michael Riehle]

...the tone of the thread starter kind of bugs me too.

It's hard to put my finger on exactly what bugs me, but the word pretentious was used in regard to one of his detractors. It's close to the correct word for our buddy anon. I hope he didn't intend to sound that way, but it kind of felt like he might have.


I know what you mean. There was a slight implication that aikido had failed him somehow, that it just wasnt good enough to hold his attention. I don't know if he actually feels that or he meant that and I should not presume. But I suppose that (unintended?) implication was what could have triggered the more negative responses that he got.

For my part, I wish him well. If another art works for him, well and good. I'm all for crosstraining and grappling.

[Sue Hammerich]

Well, thanks for hanging out with us for while. Good luck on your path wherever it takes you. Keep that spirit of wanting to learn, and you will do well. Take care!

[JessePasley]

Aikido turned a fat geek into a confident man? Sounds like a real budo success story to me. Score: Aikido 1 Fatness 0. Next please!

Anon, good luck with your future endevors. Have some fun.

[TBone]

I started my Aikido training with a great deal of motivation and excitement. As time progressed, I was not as motivated but stayed with it. I think this is also the way with marriage relationships; we are initially really intense but eventually the fire wears off. A good marriage lasts when the participants realize that it is natural for the fire to die down, but continue faithfully nonetheless. Those who don't realize that the exciting part of the relationship was transitory eventually get divorced because they wrongly think the relationship died.

I think once he realizes that his new love affair (whatever that is) will bring no greater happiness to his life, he may come back with a renewed sense of purpose. If not, then perhaps he didn't need to be here in the first place.

[makuchg]

Anon,

Aikido is a path to a destination, not the only path, but a viable one none the less. If you find this path doesn't suit you, find one that does (just make sure you are still heading in the right direction). You never know when this new path may cross with Aikido again. You may be surprised at how cyclic this journey can be.

[Joost Korpel]

Anon,
I quite Aikido practice after 3+ years of study because of family obligations. At the time I remember thinking, "well thats it then, it was a great ride and its time to move on".

Many years later it occurred to me, that I still approach life with an Aikido mindset. Whether its confrontations at work, working with kids as a Scoutmaster, dealing with traffic snarls or trying to be the best parent possible I was always looking for a way to blend lifes ups and downs while maintaining my balance. Its hard to put in exact words, but I had developed a way of thinking and approaching everything I did as a direct result of my Aikido traininig. After 14 years away from the dojo, I realized that I had still been practicing Aikido the whole time, just not on the mat. I'm happy to say I'm back on the mat, this time with my 12 year old son.

The point is, don't be surprised to find years later that you may think you have left Aikido, only to find it never really left you. :rolleyes:

Best of Luck in your Budo journey.

[Michael Neal]

Hey good for you, I felt the same way after about 2 years of Aikido. I was always doubting how effective Aikido would be because there was not enough in it to actually test your ability like with randori/sparring. I went to Judo and love it. I just won my division at the latest tournament and have no doubts about my ability to apply Judo in a real life encounter.

Although I still have respect for Aikido it just is not for me at this time. But that is not to say that I will not return to Aikido later in life, it is quite possible.

It takes some courage to make a decision and do what is right for yourself sometimes. Even though you may disappoint some people you have become friends with in Aikido.

[Ron Tisdale]

Hey! congrats on the win!

Best,
Ron

[Michael Neal]

Thanks, It took me long time before I started to win at tournaments, I have seen so many people quit Judo after losing their first few matches. But I am tenacious and stubborn as many of you here already know. :)

[aikidoc]

Different paths suit different people. If you are younger and like to mix it up Aikido may be too tame for you to "try" yourself. However, when you get older it may be just the right path. Once I discovered it, there was no question it was the right path, even though I had a break in the early years due to obligations. I mentally never left Aikido. I feel it is a path I can train on even when I can no longer get on the mat. It suits me physically and philosophically. I also like to learn and there is a lot to learn.

[CNYMike]

.... Although I still have respect for Aikido it just is not for me at this time. But that is not to say that I will not return to Aikido later in life, it is quite possible .....

There's nothing stopping you from cross-training in Aikido now, Mike, if you chose to. Certainly you would be in good company, since there seem to be plenty of people in Judo, BJJ, and MMA systems who cross-train.

Furthermore, the idea that Aikido is for "later in life" is a ludicrous myth long in need of debunking. You are not going to find many -- if any -- 115 year old Shihans who started training under O Sensei in the 1950s. Period. Anyone in their 60s or 70s when they started under him would be long dead by now, and as such, not in a position to teach it to other people, which is how you keep the art alive.

The people with ~50 years under their belts started in their late teens or early twenties, and there are plenty of people in those age brackets in the dojos I've been to lately. Yeah, plenty of gray heads around here, but plenty of young'uns, too, who are very serious about pursuing it. And it's not unusual to find dojos offering kids' classes; I had plenty of teenage training partners when I went to a seminar in Cincinnati in February.

You don't want to do Aikido, fine, but don't do it because you think it has an "old codgers only" sign on the door. There is no such animal.

[Michael Neal]

No I don't think Aikido is only for old people, but right now I want focus on Judo as that takes enough dedication in itself to be good at it, if I started back with Aikido and split my time, my Judo would suffer.

BTW: I am not looking to become a Shihan anyway. And that is one of the problems I have with Aikido, there is too much idolotry of higher ranks and Aikido legends. There also are alot of "legends in their own minds" as well. You don't have much of that BS in Judo, because you have to put up or shut up in randori and competitions. There is respect for the great competitors but it is not like the worshipping you find in Aikido.

[happysod]

worshipping you find in Aikido I'd have to say that aikido isn't the only ma guilty of this, I've seen it in some form in most martial arts - even the holy grail of competition, mma has more fan-boys than practitioners with it's own hefty share of "yeah I'm a badass fighter" group of people who last a few weeks training yet have become "the deadly" somehow.

However, I will admit that the rather strange spiritually superior hard cases of aikido are hard to swallow sometimes.

[theflyingheadbuttsuplex]

No I don't think Aikido is only for old people, but right now I want focus on Judo as that takes enough dedication in itself to be good at it, if I started back with Aikido and split my time, my Judo would suffer.

BTW: I am not looking to become a Shihan anyway. And that is one of the problems I have with Aikido, there is too much idolotry of higher ranks and Aikido legends. There also are alot of "legends in their own minds" as well. You don't have much of that BS in Judo, because you have to put up or shut up in randori and competitions. There is respect for the great competitors but it is not like the worshipping you find in Aikido.
I'm sorry you feel that way. i can't quite get at what your saying, because i haven't experienced it very much for myself. :confused: if you want to leave aikido, than leave it. judo is very fun, but IMHO has been watered down a bit through the ages, with the exeption of fusen ryu.

p.s. why don't you try tomiki aikido? :ai:

[theflyingheadbuttsuplex]

I'm glad you've been winning tournaments:D, and I'm glad you have found an art that suits you.
your enthusiasm looks pretty good from where i stand

[CNYMike]

No I don't think Aikido is only for old people, but right now I want focus on Judo as that takes enough dedication in itself to be good at it, if I started back with Aikido and split my time, my Judo would suffer.

I see, although even then, I think you could get away with Aikido once a week and still do Judo three or four and not have to worry about it. Then again, my knee-jerk response to "Which is better, art A or art B?" is usually "do both," so that's where that's coming from.


BTW: I am not looking to become a Shihan anyway ....

I didn't say you were, and I'm not saying you should. I was refuting the Aikido-is-for-old-people argument that it turns out you don't subscitbe to anyway. Point being there are plenty of people who start in their late teens or twenties and get pretty dedicated to it. I'll admit, I have a hunch some of the kids I('ve) train(ed) with also cross-train in things like Kendo and Judo, and God Knows Aikido isn't the only thing I'm doing right now. But I think you get the idea.


.... There is respect for the great competitors but it is not like the worshipping you find in Aikido.

I haven't come across anybody worshipping anybody yet, but I'll let you know if I do.

[Michael Neal]

I'm sorry you feel that way. i can't quite get at what your saying, because i haven't experienced it very much for myself. :confused: if you want to leave aikido, than leave it. judo is very fun, but IMHO has been watered down a bit through the ages, with the exeption of fusen ryu.

p.s. why don't you try tomiki aikido? :ai:

I did leave Aikido many years ago. What do you mean about Judo being watered down? Do you think it is ineffective? I can only think af a couple of techniques that have been removed from shiai, but they are often practiced in the katas and friendly randori.

There is no Tomiki Aikido anywhere near where I live, otherwise I would definately try it out.

To be honest it would not be a good idea for me to practice in a non-competitive Aikido dojo because I am afraid of hurting people. If I failed an Aikido technique during practice I would move right into a Judo technique just to keep my flow going and not to get in a habit of stopping when things fail, another bad habit I saw in Aikido by the way. I think alot of Aikidoka are not prepared to take ukemi from many Judo throws and I would also likley piss off the instructor by not using pure Aikido all the time.

If I am going to crosstrain I would need to be able to not limit myself to just the techniques of one art when I was practicing. I would need to practice somewhere that would allow me to be creative in my application of technique in that way. My previous Aikido instructor was very open minded about these things but many of the studetns were not and started whining whenever I strayed from the syllabus, they also were not prepared for hard Judo throws. Thre were nikkyus and Ikkyus that cringed at the thought of taking ukemi from seionage for example.

[CNYMike]

.... To be honest it would not be a good idea for me to practice in a non-competitive Aikido dojo because I am afraid of hurting people. If I failed an Aikido technique during practice I would move right into a Judo technique just to keep my flow going and not to get in a habit of stopping when things fail .....

Stopping is exaclty what you should do, and it doesn't matter what system it is. One thing I've learned from my exposure to LaCoste/Inosanto Kali's grappling section is things can "fail" for two main reasons: Either you've muffed something in the technique; and/or your training partner is just one of those people who's very hard to throw. Better to stop and let the other person take his or her turn and ask/wait for help than try to force something else, or switch to something other than what you're supposed to be practicing.

Having said that, I have to admit it took a good many years for me to adhere to these rules, and even then, it took a personal crisis a year ago to burn them into my soul, and I came up with them! But if I was in a Judo class, and something wasn't going right, I would ask for help rather than struggle with it.


.... I would also likley piss off the instructor by not using pure Aikido all the time.

If I am going to crosstrain I would need to be able to not limit myself to just the techniques of one art when I was practicing ....

Then what's the point of cross-training? I peeked in your profile and saw your interests are "Judo and BJJ." Ever join a BJJ class? Are you there to actually learn BJJ or just do Judo with BJJ guys? There is a difference. While I imagine that in BJJ, you wouldn't get in that much trouble from sticking to Judo as you would in Aikido, you would kind of be missing the point.

It might interest you to know that my Kali instructor explained that he and his Kali instructor, who are also Jun Fan/JKD instructors, have a policy of not letting their students spar right away, and one reason for that is they want people who have experience in other systems to spar using what they're being taught, not what they already know. And I am confindent in saying that in all probability, someone who marched in and didn't make an effort to learn what they're being taught, preferring to default to the system they already know, would get in trouble. I'm pretty sure of it.

So it should be obvious that the point of cross training is to learn other things, not just find a new place to play with what you already know. And if you can't do it, maybe it'd be better for you and any school you have your eye on not to cross train. Ever. Just a thought.

[Michael Neal]

I completely disagree with you, it is bad practice to stop after you failed a technique, it creates a very bad habit. You need to develop your ability to flow from one technique to another without pause. If you have ever done randori you know that many of your techniques will fail and you need to be able to recover from that fast.

BJJ is Judo so there is nothing really different about the training.

[Zato Ichi]

I completely disagree with you, it is bad practice to stop after you failed a technique, it creates a very bad habit. You need to develop your ability to flow from one technique to another without pause. If you have ever done randori you know that many of your techniques will fail and you need to be able to recover from that fast.
This is entirely true, even in aikido - one of the things you learn from randori (and one of the benefits of this type of training) is that you learn very quickly that stopping after a failed technique and wondering "Now what?" is a sure fire way to be either smashed to the ground with a well placed atemiwaza or get a really a nasty kansetsuwaza which will leave you tapping out pretty quickly (and after a short time you become keenly aware when your opponent has a good lock on your elbow or wrist so it's best to tap early... I've seen people try and fight out of waza and get some moderately serious injuries). Either transition to your next waza quickly, or, if you see it's going no where - or just plain draw a blank - regain a comfortable maai and try again.

However, that is randorigeiko (or, possibly, hikitategeiko) - in just practicing the waza themselves, it would be very bad form to transition into something else.

I think alot of Aikidoka are not prepared to take ukemi from many Judo throws... <snip>
That has more to do with the individual than the waza... for example I could do osotoguruma hard enough to rattle someone's bones or I could do it gently enough that even a beginner with some ukemi training should be able to get right back up and continue training with no ill effects. It's all about control.

[CNYMike]

I completely disagree with you, it is bad practice to stop after you failed a technique, it creates a very bad habit. You need to develop your ability to flow from one technique to another without pause .....

That "abort/try something" else is built into Aikido. Irimi nage is the obvious example, and on occassion the dojos I've gone to do something where the first thing you try fails and you switch to something else. But when you're learning a technique, I think you have to stop when something doesn't go right. It can be disasterous if you don't.

Back in '97, when I was in the beginning Kali class, one of my partners just wouldn't let me throw him. He said, "People won't let you throw them in real life." "Ok," I said, "but let me get it right ONCE and then you can resist to your heart's conent." Well, he didn't do that, and I got mad and almost sent him into a display case. What did I get out of that? NOTHING.

I'm also in a karate class where my sensei is very big on combining blocking, striking and thowing. We had one green belt who (I guess) was an exchange student from Japan with prior training (she was maybe feve foot nothing but ludicrously strong!), and she wouldn't go slow -- she wanted to do everything full speed on the first try. One time, instead of throwing me to the mat, she almost brought me down on top of her, and I must outweigh her by 100 pounds. Not good.

In the old Kali class under Guro Kevin Seaman, who counts Sensei Eric Paulosn as his grappling instuctor, I've never done full blown rolling around. Never. He susbscribes to the view you build up to that. So I've done plent of classes just learning techniques; one or two with "position sparring," where you try and get a superior position without trying to finish it. Full blown randori would probably come later, but you walk up to it, not jump in and hope you land right.

So yeah, there's a time to flow and roll around and experiment, but there's a time to learn the technique and stop and ask for help when you need it. And yes, it took me a long time to learn to control my temper and do that, but I do it.

Nice that YOU think BJJ and Judo are the same thing. But wasn't Judo founded by some guy named Kano? :p

[Michael Neal]

That has more to do with the individual than the waza... for example I could do osotoguruma hard enough to rattle someone's bones or I could do it gently enough that even a beginner with some ukemi training should be able to get right back up and continue training with no ill effects. It's all about control.

True, but the problem I found though is that when I did throws like seionage they would get terrified and tense up resulting in very bad ukemi on their part.

I agree that you can control the throw's intensity but I even had problems with them when I threw very slowly. it has alot to do i think with how ukemi is taught in the school, of course some are better than others. The Aikidoka I experienced had exceptionally good forward and backward rolls but were incpompetant at break falls from Judo like throws.

[Michael Neal]

Michael, yes there is definately a time when you should focus on learning the technique and not worry about being countered, that is one part of training. But once you are able to perform the technique you should then try and work it into more fluid training.

During a typical Judo practice we do warmups, breakfall practice, kuzushi(off balanacing drills), skill development (like practicing a single technique), then randori for the remainder of the class. You try and work the technique into your randori but it often does not work so you just switch to another technique. Over a long period of time you will find out what techniques work for you and what does not, everyone has techniques that they are better at than others.

All of these stages are very important. In Aikido I found that randori was almost always not a part of the practice, this is bad in my view. Aslo I think breakfall practice should be a part of every single class as well, it actually can be used to substitute for regular warmups.

I am absolutely convinced without a single doubt that randori training is essential to developing practical skills in any martial art.

[theflyingheadbuttsuplex]

I did leave Aikido many years ago. What do you mean about Judo being watered down? Do you think it is ineffective? I can only think af a couple of techniques that have been removed from shiai, but they are often practiced in the katas and friendly randori.

There is no Tomiki Aikido anywhere near where I live, otherwise I would definately try it out.

To be honest it would not be a good idea for me to practice in a non-competitive Aikido dojo because I am afraid of hurting people. If I failed an Aikido technique during practice I would move right into a Judo technique just to keep my flow going and not to get in a habit of stopping when things fail, another bad habit I saw in Aikido by the way. I think alot of Aikidoka are not prepared to take ukemi from many Judo throws and I would also likley piss off the instructor by not using pure Aikido all the time.

If I am going to crosstrain I would need to be able to not limit myself to just the techniques of one art when I was practicing. I would need to practice somewhere that would allow me to be creative in my application of technique in that way. My previous Aikido instructor was very open minded about these things but many of the studetns were not and started whining whenever I strayed from the syllabus, they also were not prepared for hard Judo throws. Thre were nikkyus and Ikkyus that cringed at the thought of taking ukemi from seionage for example.

Sorry, watered down wasn't quite what I meant (even though I said it) I need to be more careful with the way I say things. 2 a-bombs were dropped on japan in ww2 because someone wasn't careful with their words :uch: :eek: . Besides, I haven't experienced judo first hand, so I wouldn't know as well as you. What I meant to say is I know judo throws frequently require lapel grabs, and most people's shirts aren't that strong. These techniques are probably adaptable.

P.S. I'm glad you take martial arts so seriously, and am happy you've found the right one for you
good luck on your journey :do:

-theflyingheadbuttsuplex-

[Michael Neal]

Burt, most Judo throws are easily adaptable to someone in street clothes, I can use a t-shirt to use almost any Judo throw if need be, it may rip but all I need is a little off balancing. Most throws can be adapted on people who are shirtless as well, you just take typical wrestling grips instead like a hand on the neck and on the wrist or elbow, from there I can throw very well.

[CNYMike]

Michael, yes there is definately a time when you should focus on learning the technique and not worry about being countered, that is one part of training. But once you are able to perform the technique you should then try and work it into more fluid training.

I see. My point is before you get to the "able to perform" stage. If a technique "fails" not because it's been countered but because you've made a mistake, then yeah, you should stop and double check. Especially when, as in Aikido (but I also found this in Kali), missing one key detail can blow the whole technique. And I still run into this even though I've gone once a week for a year, so it's not like you'll get it overnight!


..... In Aikido I found that randori was almost always not a part of the practice .....

If you're talking about the kind of randori found in Judo, well no, that's not going to be in Aikido at all. But the prohibition against that goes all the way back to O Sensei, so saying Aikido people should do randori is like saying baseball players should work on their field goal kicks.

If you're talking about the kind of randori they do do, with one nage and two or more ukes, there are probably valid reasons why they hold off on that.


.... I am absolutely convinced without a single doubt that randori training is essential to developing practical skills in any martial art.

My Kali instructor would probaly agree with you on that point. But he's also the one who encouraged me to follow through on my desire to get back into Aikido. Just a thought to make your head explode.

As for breakfalls being a regualr part of the warmups ..... when I was in Seidokan 16 years ago, they were. In the dojo I'm in, they're not. But at a dojo we're tight with, they are. It may come down to an individual sensei's prerogative.

[deepsoup]

If you're talking about the kind of randori found in Judo, well no, that's not going to be in Aikido at all.
You're generalising a bit too much there, it does exist in several systems, the best known probably being Shodokan.

I think (the other) Michael would really quite enjoy it, too bad its not available in his neighbourhood.

Sean
x

[theflyingheadbuttsuplex]

Michael (neal), do you study any particular style of Judo? I know there aren't that many.

[Michael Neal]

just regular Kodokan Judo, there is only one other type that I know of called Zen Judo that deemphasizes randori and competition

[Paula Lydon]

~~Good luck to you on your path. Who knows? Someday your feet may guide you back to Aikido, for entirely different reasons~~

[CNYMike]

You're generalising a bit too much there, it does exist in several systems, the best known probably being Shodokan.

I stand corrected.

[takusan]

Lynn Seiser, your wisdom is great. Many should take to their heart what you said.

Two years is plenty of time to change.
Aikido will still be there, regardless if any one of us decide to leave or stay.

Anon, do what YOU feel is correct.
You are not alone.
I have many times had my foot half out the door.
And I have been doing Aikido for a whole lot of years longer than you.
Its not aikido that will give you the answers, its within yourself. That was my realisation.
Aikido or what ever you do is a tool or a path. Use it. Discard it, just don't stop growing.

Sad to see you go from aikido, but I hope you find more answers while doing what ever you finally settle upon.
Hay - it might be that you will return to aikido one day.

Dave H

[Aragorn]

1-To each their own
2-Some would say that now that there is no goal in your training that the true learning can commence.

I agree completly with you. let him go and wish him luck cause he can always return!

Good luck anon! :cool:

Regards,
:ai: :ki: :do:

[theflyingheadbuttsuplex]

oh, thanks for telling me that:) I've heard of Fusen ryu but that is pretty rare.

[Camille Lore]

I wish you luck in your search for answers.
I can relate to some of what you say. I began practicing Aikido with an Aikikai school 15 years ago, and as a young teen, I enjoyed the spiritual side of it and the subtle defenses against attacks. After 15 years away from Aikido, I've found myself at a point in life where things were in place for me to return. I sought out the spiritual side of Aikido, and found a local dojo that teaches Fukasa-ryu Aikido and Jujutsu. At first I found it confusing and couldn't tell where the Aikido was and where the Jujutsu stopped.
However, now I've had a chance to go to an Aikikai school and have returned with a new appreciation for my dojo.
Our Sensei teaches an Aikido that is based on wartime martial arts, different from the Aikido that evolved post-war. We learn techniques that are higher level pretty much right from the beginning, and a lot of our techniques require hard breakfalls.
If my technique isn't working, my Sensei and partner will tell me and help me make it effective. In my dojo, we don't just fall because we're supposed to - we fall because the technique is working. We also train doing a lot of simple, direct techniques that will work on the street. After having trained for only a few months at this dojo, I feel confident that I can defend myself if I ever need to.
Aikido has a broad spectrum of styles. I have found myself suprisingly happy with a more combat oriented Aikido. Fukasa-ryu is very effective and I am proud to be learning it.
I certainly have no negative things to say about other styles, only having practiced one other, and having found something that appeals to another side of me....
My point is to keep searching. You will find your own Aikido that is what you seek.
Best wishes,
Camille

[actoman]

Mortal, I do wish you the best...but think on this first..

Aikido helped you change into the person you are today (apparently in a big way). according to many I talk to, they too get burned out and want to try something different...this is a test of your mind to stay in the fight and keep going.

I believe, and this is only opinion, that you will one day make it back to the mat. But for now good luck!

[wmanthony527@msn.com]

Never sent a reply to a forum before, but fell the need. I was with the fukasa-ryu group in Pennsylvania also, in fact I was a senior student who didn't care what color his belt was and just lived for Aikido, and all offered art training . It started as Aikido Tenshinkai, Sensei's teacher was from Flordia, My respect is always, and in the beginning it was just a few of us, we trained hard and I respect our YOUNG Sensei, then one day the Sensei told me that todays students want to learn from a 5th dan or better, within the next year the Sensei's cousin, from New York started Fukasa -Ryu in year 2000 -2001 and Sensei was a fifth dan. Apparently Fukasa-Ryu "Soke" had Aikido training along with all the other arts. Today Aikido masters teacher is now a Soke-Dai. I know I missed the point of true Buda and let personal problems at the time get in my way, but forgive me for speaking up. I'm an older student who I think was respected from my peers and most likely upset at myself. We had ranks in Tenshinkai and Fukasa-Ryu, I always wore my Tenshinkai rank even after receiving an Dan ranking in Fukasa-Ryu Aikido. Teachers have an influence on students younger or older and vise versa. I'm in my 50's and wish I had just one of the extra lifetimes to master an art that, it seems, are so common. These teachers are good teachers and good people, guess I'm old fashioned (along with just old) and wish all would respect their 1st Dan and not worry past that !!!
With Respect to all, William