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aoerstroem
01-24-2005, 08:07 PM
For a long time I have considered studying another martial art to supplement Aikido. I decided that in order to get the greatest synergy I would have to choose a 'hard' school.

For a couple of weeks now I have been training Kyokushinkai Karate and it has been really interesting to experience the aspects of budo that Aikido lacks.

What is your take on studying a 'secondary' art? Have you tried it and found it useful, or do you believe Aikido is complete in itself? Also, do you think it disrespectful to the original dojo?
Any feedback is most welcome.

malsmith
01-24-2005, 08:27 PM
i think that is kind of disrespectful cause it looks like you are saying "youre not good enough i want something more" which might be right for you, but its still kind of awkward... as for me i have not tried other arts besides aikido but my teacher has and he is very much for aikido... and im thinking there is probably reason in that.

Aristeia
01-24-2005, 08:51 PM
I think it's a great idea. My aikido has benefitted tremendously from my cross training. There's certain things Aikido lacks necessarily and I don't see why it is disrespectful to get those things from other sources. If your school and instructor are confident of Aikido and it's utility they should not feel at all threatened by you dabbling in other areas.

David Yap
01-24-2005, 10:02 PM
For a long time I have considered studying another martial art to supplement Aikido. I decided that in order to get the greatest synergy I would have to choose a 'hard' school.

For a couple of weeks now I have been training Kyokushinkai Karate and it has been really interesting to experience the aspects of budo that Aikido lacks.

What is your take on studying a 'secondary' art? Have you tried it and found it useful, or do you believe Aikido is complete in itself? Also, do you think it disrespectful to the original dojo?
Any feedback is most welcome.

Hi Alex,

I agree. X-training does give you better insight and understanding of your MA discipline. You will definitely understand the feel of "softness" when you have experienced "hardness". Karate path is actually hard to soft. Another way of viewing it is the exponent of the art delivers hard (attack) and receives soft (defense), towards the end, the attacks become subtlely soft.

Kyokushinkai Karate - you sure pick one extreme hard style. If you research further, you would find that most of O Sensei's top students have varied MA backgrounds pre or/and post aikido. They include Mochizuki, Tohei, Tomiki, Shioda, Tada. Even Saito had did some Shito-ryu karate.

One can rarely a "complete" teacher in a complete art. Even within ones art, ones knowledge is incomplete when one cannot see beyond techniques or one emphazises on philosophy alone; there need to be a balance.

My 2 sen is you can't be wrong.

David Y

bkedelen
01-25-2005, 12:59 AM
Imagine if Aikido were more than just the techniques listen in "Budo Training In Aikido". Oh wait, nevermind.

Pavel.Dobrus
01-25-2005, 04:01 AM
I use other MA to improve my aikido. I practice tai chi, and I consider it (the same is karate) as different view on the similar principles. Tai chi helped me a lot with understanding how to work my center, how to maintain my stability. How to relax, how to set my body properly and so on. And as desired result, it helped to improve my aikido :)

Robert Cowham
01-25-2005, 06:19 AM
There's an interesting interview with Bruce Bookman on http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=463
about this very subject.

His take - cross training is good.

Robert

Fred26
01-25-2005, 06:20 AM
Hi Alex,


If you research further, you would find that most of O Sensei's top students have varied MA backgrounds pre or/and post aikido. They include Mochizuki, Tohei, Tomiki, Shioda, Tada. Even Saito had did some Shito-ryu karate.

David Y

Aye..lets not forget O Sensei himself. He had quite alot of knowledge of other budo under his belt too :D

One of our instructors of the Aikido section of the Budo-kai club also practice Kyokushinkai karate (also a member of Budo-kai)

And me and the head-instructor will begin Jodo/Iaido in a few weeks too...so I see no wrong in x-training :)

Bridge
01-25-2005, 06:46 AM
See nowt wrong with trying something else. I'd never have found aikido otherwise.

Just staying with one style has an advantage: Your brain isn't swimming with a squillion versions/ approaches to things. Avoids confusion, lets you focus your training etc. I am jealous of these people.

Trying other stuff encourages critical thinking of what you are doing.

I would rather stay somewhere because I've seen what's on offer and I know it is good rather than because I don't know any different. Don't know what your missing out on otherwise.

Mark Jewkes
01-25-2005, 07:06 AM
Hi Alexander

By all means! I recommend that you read Nishio Sensei´s book Yurusu Budo, as he clearly states the necessity of strong atemi and good nage-waza, and if that means knocking on the door of a karate-dojo, by all means do so. I myself have trained Kyokushin, Shotokan and Ashihara and feel that this training has provided me with certain basics that are hardly ever trained thoroughly in a typical aikido dojo.

Ashihara Karate and Aikido even share a couple of movements. I once witnessed a kumite where the Ashihara exponent swiftly executed irimi tenkan and standing behind him scored ippon with a mawashi geri to the head (roundhouse kick). His opponent was clearly surprised.

greetings
Mark

David Humm
01-25-2005, 08:03 AM
Hi,

I study Iaido in conjunction with Aikikai Aikido and I find the two compliment each other very well.

I have just started practicing Tameshigiri and this has again lifted my concentration levels, something which I have already found beneficial within my aiki study.

Dave

ian
01-25-2005, 08:14 AM
I don't think aikido specifically lacks anything in it's concept, but I think practitioners should be able to strike effectively (and to understand vital points) to understand aikido properly. I believe modern aikido (as oppossed to traditional aikijitsu) training brushes over a grounding in strikes and 'pressure points'. I often believe it is better to train in other martial arts before aikido to really appreciate it (although I didn't myself). However, if it is anything like our club, it's a full time job just trying to get good at aikido so simpler things like striking should preferably be practised outside of aikido training.

Fred26
01-25-2005, 09:32 AM
Perhaps Aikido doesnt lack anything...but it also takes a long time to master in comparison. So if we look at the practical aspects only, devoid of any philosophical issues such as non-violent resistance, then cross-training another martial art that doesnt take unreasonably long to put up a reasonable defense with doesnt sound that illogical.

*edit*

Like: Use aikido when you can if possible, and if not; use karate or jiu-jiutsu or whatever. :)

SeiserL
01-25-2005, 09:50 AM
IMHO, many of us cross train without disrespect, only personal preference. Just keep the arts separate in the your mind and training until they begin to integrate by themselves.

p00kiethebear
01-25-2005, 11:19 AM
I took up aikido to augment my sword work. The two go together very well.

I don't see how practicing another type of budo is disrepectful. Didn't O sensei train in like 6 different types?

justinc
01-25-2005, 12:09 PM
I think a lot of this really depends on the person practicing.

My personal feeling is that you are doing yourself a disservice by not training in another art for some period of time. Perspective only comes from a change of view. You can't realise depth without at least two different views. If you're only ever exposed to one viewpoint, how can you be assured that what you have learnt is "correct" or valuable? Part of growing is exploring - seeking out new information so that you can learn. Learning another art, whether hard-style like TKD/Karate or soft-style like Tai Chi will help you see the holes in your current training due to a different perspective. Thus you can come back to the Aikido and work on ways of filling that hole directly from an Aikido perspective. As the previous posters have stated, almost all the top ranking instructors have a non-trivial amount of experience in at least one other martial art.

james_best
01-25-2005, 03:23 PM
To examine another art is merely expanding your knowledge and will allow you to realize that the basic principles of Aikido are universal. If you have trouble retaining balance, I'd recommend tai chi for its balance and fluidity.

Be well.

tony cameron
01-25-2005, 05:16 PM
greetings all,
i dont know if it can be called "cross-training" since you dont need partners or a dojo to practice, but i have been practicing a very simple yet powerful Qi Gong called Pan Gu Shengong. the results are almost immediately noticable and i can practice every day because it is not physically exhausting. quite the contrary: my energy and stamina are vastly improved by this internal MA, and it has improved every other aspect of my life including Aikido. an interesting (and very pleasant) observation is that before i took up Qi Gong my knees would sometimes be swollen and painful for days at a time, but now the swelling disapears almost immediately after i complete the forms! obviously i try to practice the Qi Gong right when i get home from the dojo as often as i can.

best wishes to all,
tony
:circle: :square: :triangle:

Jim Evans
01-25-2005, 07:00 PM
Hello all

The style I have come to find most appropriate and enjoyable for me is Iwama ryu but due to very frequent travel with work I am forced to train at other dojo and in other budo around the country. I know this isn't exactly cross training it is more like getting a fix wherever I can :)

What this has shown me though is that I have to focus on my art (Iwama) and treat the others as secondary. I have trained with karate, hapkido, savate as well as "street real" styles in my travels. I go there thinking if I walk away with one thing I'll be happy but I have becomed disciplined in not letting it affect my aikido. I don't want to end up a "jack of all trades and master of none".


Just staying with one style has an advantage: Your brain isn't swimming with a squillion versions/ approaches to things. Avoids confusion, lets you focus your training etc. I am jealous of these people.


Bridget said it better then I could and funnily enough the only art that I wont practice when I am away is aikido that isn't Iwama ryu because it confuses the hell out of me.

Anyway, cross train? yes, disrespectful? IMHO nuh just makes you a little more rounded and makes your oppinion a little more worth listening to.

Jim

johnhannon
01-25-2005, 07:23 PM
Any one ever try something like ballroom dancing to improve their aikido?

justinc
01-25-2005, 10:05 PM
Not directly, but I had a couple of years of street latin and semi-professional work as a night-club dancer before coming to martial arts. We also have a new white belt that is a professional ballroom teacher.

At least in my experience, and this seems to be backed up watching the new white belt learn, it makes it harder. Dance leads primarily from the upper body - many teachers teach about leading with the shoulders. Martial arts lead from the center. For the first 6 months or so, I had a lot of problems trying to deal with this different way of movement. I'm not convinced that dance of any kind really helps with the martial arts as the focus of where the balance point, and where to lead from are really quite different and contradictory.

David Yap
01-25-2005, 10:07 PM
Hi Jim,

The style I have come to find most appropriate and enjoyable for me is Iwama ryu ... <snip>...
Anyway, cross train? yes, disrespectful? IMHO nuh just makes you a little more rounded and makes your oppinion a little more worth listening to.
Then again? Iwama-ryu is a X-training of the empty-hands, jo and sword - an integration of the MA mastered by O Sensei :rolleyes:

David Y

Jim Evans
01-26-2005, 04:42 AM
Hi David,

I bow to your greater insight :-)

Jim

Fiona D
01-26-2005, 08:34 AM
Justin wrote:

"At least in my experience, and this seems to be backed up watching the new white belt learn, it makes it harder. Dance leads primarily from the upper body - many teachers teach about leading with the shoulders. Martial arts lead from the center. For the first 6 months or so, I had a lot of problems trying to deal with this different way of movement. I'm not convinced that dance of any kind really helps with the martial arts as the focus of where the balance point, and where to lead from are really quite different and contradictory."

Now that's curious - my ballroom dancing teacher is always talking about moving, leading & following from the centre. Having a solid frame, especially in the upper body, definitely helps, but the more I learn, the more centre-based I've found the whole thing becomes. Personally, I find a lot of correspondence between the martial arts I do (jiujitsu, iaido, jodo & have done some aikido) and the ballroom dancing movements, and find them all to be good cross-training with one another.

Bronson
01-26-2005, 11:18 AM
I think for me a better term would be concurrent training. I train in iaido simply because I want to train in iaido; it interests me as it's own art not because I want it to fill some gap in my aikido training.

YMMV

Bronson

johnhannon
01-26-2005, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the insights on dancing and aikido.
I studied a bit of Tai Chi and found that what I learned
helped me with aikido as a beginner.

Any thoughts about western (european?) fencing?

aoerstroem
01-26-2005, 12:47 PM
Thanks everyone for the many replies.

I am glad that most of you do not feel that I am being disrespectful to my dojo, that has been on my mind a lot lately.

Train hard!

A. Orstrom

Dan Herak
01-26-2005, 01:07 PM
I have studied multiple martial arts ever since I began aikido 7 years ago. My instructor also teaches taihojutsu, a martial system taught to police in Japan which is a mixture of empty hand martial arts (judo, ju-jutsu and extensive atemi training) and weapon-based martial arts (kendo, jodo, etc.). Not only do I think cross training is good, it would be quite difficult for me to imagine not doing so. The fact of the matter is that no one single martial art is comprehensive. What is striking when you practice several arts, however, is how many people fail to recognize those areas in which their own art has shortcomings.

As one example not involving aikido, karate may teach one to strike effectively but does not teach ukemi very well. When I mentioned this to a karateka, he denied this and described his ukemi "training," which involved being told to tuck your head in and slap. That's right - he was TOLD to do this. From my perspective, his ukemi training was extraordinarily incomplete. But the thing that struck me was that this guy himself genuinely thought it was good.

The same principle applies to aikido. I like aikido as much as the next guy, but there are some blind spots. When I mentioned once that aikido has no free practice comparable to judo or kendo, one person brought up giyu-waza. Sorry, not comparable. Aikidoka point to suwari-waza when the issue of ground work comes up. Yet aikido's ground work is simply nowhere near as comprehensive as judo's.

Don't get me wrong. Aikido has serious strengths that these other arts are missing. Yet the issue goes both ways. Cross training is a good way to recognize this and address this depending on what other art you take.

Bronson
01-26-2005, 01:35 PM
how many people fail to recognize those areas in which their own art has shortcomings.

I know that aikido training de-emphasizes some things and leaves others completely out (as do the majority of arts). It doesn't bother me in the least :)

Again, YMMV

Bronson

David Yap
01-26-2005, 08:06 PM
Hi Bronson,
I know that aikido training de-emphasizes some things and leaves others completely out (as do the majority of arts). It doesn't bother me in the least :)
That depends on your intend to train and your expectations. I believe this was what my previous instructor meant when he said, "Aikido means different things to different people; some train aikido to sweat like playing badminton or racket ball, some think of it like aerobics, some train for self-defense..." ;)

Regards

David Y

Bronson
01-27-2005, 01:57 AM
That depends on your intend to train and your expectations.

Yeah, I really have no interest in becoming a great all-around MA fighter. I like the aikido I've found and want to learn that. I like iaido and want to learn that. Should I find something in the future that I want to learn I'll do that should the opportunity arise.

Bronson

Bryan
01-27-2005, 12:13 PM
Thanks everyone for the many replies.

I am glad that most of you do not feel that I am being disrespectful to my dojo, that has been on my mind a lot lately.

Train hard!

A. Orstrom

If you are training in Budo for self improvement, as most Aikidoka are, then your intentions are good. If you are honest about your intentions and training then how can a Sensei or instructor take offense to you being true to yourself and your goals? If offense is taken, then it is just that, taken. If that is the case then perhaps you are in the wrong place to achieve your personal goals. To me, the obvious path to take would be to talk to your Sensei / Chief instructor and ask. Have confidence, avoid arrogance.

I enjoy exploring multiple perspectives on any subject. I enjoy training with different instructors in Aikido, as well as training in other MA besides Aikido. I am always finding something new in my Aikido techniques while in the middle of Hapkido or even TKD class. The change in perspective is a key that can unlock things you have refused to see or have dismissed in the past. I have some experience with KungFu, and currently cross train in Aikido, ICHF Hapkido, and TaeKwonDo.


This is just my perspective and I even enjoy listening to those that have the opposite view. Every interaction is an opportunity to learn.

Forgive my long worded post. Good luck.

kironin
01-27-2005, 01:38 PM
If you are training in Budo for self improvement, as most Aikidoka are, then your intentions are good. If you are honest about your intentions and training then how can a Sensei or instructor take offense to you being true to yourself and your goals? If offense is taken, then it is just that, taken. If that is the case then perhaps you are in the wrong place to achieve your personal goals. To me, the obvious path to take would be to talk to your Sensei / Chief instructor and ask. Have confidence, avoid arrogance.



I wouldn't ever take offense, but if a junior student tells me they are studying another art or want to study another art in addition to aikido, it's natural for me to wonder in which art are they dabbling. So many adults nowadays seem to barely have time to devote a decent amount of training time in one art. If I see less of them after they start doing the other art then I usually have my answer.

Same goes for yudansha only then I might be more blunt in asking them where their commitments lie or what their goals are.

There are many martial arts with goals very different from aikido (IMO).
I thinks it's reasonable to examine whether you are actually supplementing aikido or just going off on a tangent that won't serve your aikido development. Too often it seems that people are looking for answers in other arts that can be found in aikido if you have the patience.

It's only natural that teachers are more interested in students with a single focus.

kironin
01-27-2005, 01:45 PM
I have studied multiple martial arts ever since I began aikido 7 years ago. ...
The same principle applies to aikido. I like aikido as much as the next guy, but there are some blind spots. When I mentioned once that aikido has no free practice comparable to judo or kendo, one person brought up giyu-waza. Sorry, not comparable. Aikidoka point to suwari-waza when the issue of ground work comes up. Yet aikido's ground work is simply nowhere near as comprehensive as judo's.


Sorry, I think you have a blind spot. This is a classic case of the problem I see with people trying to study multiple arts at the same time from the beginning. So busy studying other arts solutions that you can't see solutions that can be found in aikido to specific issues.

Dan Herak
01-27-2005, 02:56 PM
Sorry, I think you have a blind spot.

Since I never claimed not to have a blind spot I am not sure what the purpose of this response is. However, it would have been helpful if you had provided specifics as to what this blind spot of mine is and what your qualifications are for making it. As you reference my statement about free practice in judo and kendo and my statement about ground work in judo, I assume you are referring to these.

Have you ever studied judo or kendo for an extensive period? How does aikido have a free practice similar to judo or kendo in which the uke/nage relationship is meaningless? Or are you saying that such a free practice exercise is not as important as I am making it out to be? If so, what is your basis for saying this? Judo's ground work is applicable from a kneeling position, on your back or on top of another and incorporates pins, chokes and arm locks. What is my blind spot for saying aikido's ground work is not as extensive? As I study both judo and aikido, it would make sense that I have more information to make such statements. If your training in other martial arts is not as extensive as mine, then it appears you are saying I have a blind spot based on more information and experience regarding these arts than yourself. This would be odd. If you do have such training, then you should be able to address these issues.

Aristeia
01-27-2005, 06:11 PM
Sorry, I think you have a blind spot. This is a classic case of the problem I see with people trying to study multiple arts at the same time from the beginning. So busy studying other arts solutions that you can't see solutions that can be found in aikido to specific issues.

Well I agree with your sentiment that it's probably not a good idea to be training in mulitple arts before your've got your head around one reasonably well. But that's all I agree with.

Certainly you want to be careful that you don't go running to other arts just because some stuff in Aikido is hard and takes some work thought and investigation. But to say it doesn't have blind spots and that anyone who says it does is themselves blind, is frankly silly.

Aikido works primarily in a very specific range. Once that range collapses you start to lose your effectiveness. It has no real solution to ground fighting other than "don't be there". And for the most part it has no free sparring. You don't go through the learning curve of taking your drills and learning to apply them vs resisting opponents who are trying to do the same to you.

I wouldn't change any of this in Aikido. The last point, which may be the most important deficiency, I am beginning to beleive cannot be changed without drastically altering Aikido's nature and form, which we don't want to do. But true randori develops many important qualities if you want to be able to fight. So if you can't get it in Aikido, you should go and get it somewhere else, be it judo, BJJ, kyokushinkai etc etc.

To say everything anyone needs is contained within Aikido is pretty myopic and verging on cultish.

Adam Alexander
01-27-2005, 07:51 PM
But true randori develops many important qualities if you want to be able to fight. So if you can't get it in Aikido, you should go and get it somewhere else, be it judo, BJJ, kyokushinkai etc etc.
.

The author's name slips my mind, but the name of the book is "The Ultimate Martial Arts Q and A." He says that the samurai trained exactly as we do in Aikido--no sparring.

Aristeia
01-27-2005, 07:59 PM
The author's name slips my mind, but the name of the book is "The Ultimate Martial Arts Q and A." He says that the samurai trained exactly as we do in Aikido--no sparring.

Perhaps that's true, perhaps it's not I have no way of knowing. I will say though that I've similarly heard that as professional soldiers samurai already had a background in, and ample opportunity to, rumble it up for real so they already had developed those attributes (as evidenced by the fact they were still alive)

Adam Alexander
01-27-2005, 09:15 PM
they already had developed those attributes (as evidenced by the fact they were still alive)

that looks like a circle argument.

There's a way for you to find out, look up the book :)

Aristeia
01-27-2005, 09:42 PM
why is that circular? And there's no need for me to look it up as I've just given, at least one reason why it doesn't necessarily impact this discussion either way.

Jory Boling
04-01-2005, 11:30 AM
I have been very interested in cross training with another martial art as well, but i don't want to undo some of my aikido training. So far the only thing i've tried is a Bujinkan Taijitsu class. i was amazed about how similar many of the techniques were. Most I studied involved taking away the opponent's center just like in aikido,but overall they were teaching different responses. I felt that while similar, my aikido was not at a high enough level to not be adversely affected. so i wondered in what art should i crosstrain? something 180° different? or something along the lines of jujitsu? aikijitsu? does anyone have suggestions?

Melissa Fischer
04-03-2005, 03:40 AM
I just started drilling in some Brazilian Jui Jitsu. Not necessarily as crosstraining, in that I am not looking to improve my Aikido with it, but rather that it was so convenient for me to drop in to the bjj club Bruce Bookman sensei leads that it became irresistable.(actually, I did wait 'till after my shodan so as not to spread my training time too thin.) It has made me wonder "what is AIkido"? Is it still Aikido if I do the nikkyo pin with a leg lock? If I do a henka waza from kaiten nage into a sutemi ending in an arm bar. What about the kubishime choke hold? Is it Aikido because it is one of the finite number of techniques recorded that O'Sensei did? What if he sneaked in some things we don't know about. Is it Aikido because of the kokyu and peace on earth thing? It's my understanding that it always has been a synthesis of a MA. Weapons work sometimes feels like a crosstraining of sorts even though it is contained in Aikido hand to hand practice.
Anyway, I have tried to approach this new training with an empty cup attitude and no expectations. I appreciate people's feed back in this thread.

Melissa

www.tenzanaikido.com

Meggy Gurova
04-03-2005, 06:18 AM
I have just started training capoeira. Feels like in aikido we move on our feet and wave around with our hands and in capoeira we move on our hands and wave around with our feet :D No, it's not that simple, but almost.
I find the two arts very similar because of the harmony in the movements which is produced by right maai. After 4 years of aikido I noticed that aikido is not good for work out (it can not keep me in shape), since we don't use strength when we do techniques. But instead I think capoeira gives me that. On the other hand I don't think capoeira can give me as much inner strength as aikido gives me.
I don't see it as a supplement so much , neither do I see my dance experiences as supplement, I just happen to be interested in those things, thats it.

CNYMike
04-03-2005, 12:42 PM
.... What is your take on studying a 'secondary' art? .....

I'm sort of coming from the opposite direction: After a 16 year break from Aikido, I got back into a year ago. In the mean time I did other martial arts which I am continuing with, so right now I am doing shito-ryu karate (which I had been doing for a year and a half when I started in Seidokan Aikido back in the '80s), Kali, Pentjak Silat Serak, and Tai Chi. I've also trained in Shotokan (and the sensie in that also teaches TKD and some Chinese forms), Western Boxing (although I've enver actually boxed), fencing, and Wing Chun Kung Fu. My Kali instructor approves of all of that, not surprising because anyone with Sifu Dan Inosanto in their lineage (like Pembantu Andy) makes a point of cross training.

...... Have you tried it and found it useful .....

Well, as indicated above, my Kali instructor thinks its great! So does his Kali instructor, and one of the guys from the class (who, BTW, bumped into Yamada Sensei back in the '60s; small world!). As to how things shake out as Aikido skills work into my muscle memory with everything else remains to be seen.

.... or do you believe Aikido is complete in itself? .....

Oh, boy. Isn't that a loaded question!

If by complete you mean, does it address all the ranges of fighting it can, I would have to say, "No." LaCoste/Inosanto Kali looks at martial arts in a general way -- it has to because it blosoms out from the stick to include every weapon you can imagine and every category of empty hand technique you can name. If you can image that there's a spectrum of possible techniques you can use defined by how close you are to your opponent, with ground fighting at one end and really long range techniques at the other, there's a lot that Aikido doesn't address. Sorry. It is interesting that while many of the techniques bring you close, it starts from what may be considered kickboxing range by a Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do person (I know this because my Kali instructors are JF/JKD instructors and always make little asides and digressions about it), but deson't so much longer range. In comparision to something general like Kali, Aikido is actually specialized. But this is not bad because many martial arts specialize in one thing or another and another thing that's been drummed into me is that's ok. Then again, if you want to tell a Thai Boxer his art is no good because he doesn't lock and throw, be my guest. Get ready to blend. Quickly. :)

Which leads to another way of looking at it: if you're asking if I think Aikido is fine the way it is, I would say, "Yes." One odd effect of cross training, and my Kali teacher feels the same way, is that when you learn something new (or in my case, return to something you did before), you are fine with it as you find it, because you know some martial arts focus on certain areas and may not be so hot in others. Aikido may not do a lot with punching, but then western boxing doesn't do locking and throwing; that's the way things are. Besides which, anyone who has surfed around here long enough will know that there are plenty of Aikido people who swear by it based on using the techniques in actual self defense situaitons. If it's there when you need it and it works, you won't get any argument from me about why that shouldn't have happened.

Also, do you think it disrespectful to the original dojo?


I don't. :) There does seem to be a "clustering" of Aikido with other martial arts, mainly Kendo, Iado, and other Japanese systems; in fact, there was a period where O Sensei had someone teaching Kendo at his dojo, although that, apparently, did not continue. So it doen't sound as Aikido and cross training are mutually exclusive. If your Aikido sensei says otherwise and has a cow about doing karate, that's another matter.

CNYMike
04-03-2005, 11:44 PM
..... I have been very interested in cross training with another martial art as well, but i don't want to undo some of my aikido training .....

If you continue with Aikido as you do other things, then it won't "undo" anything.

..... i wondered in what art should i crosstrain? something 180° different? or something along the lines of jujitsu? aikijitsu? does anyone have suggestions?

See if you can find one of those big books that comes out every few years that gives a broad overview of the martial arts and read it. When you find something you are interested in, read some more on that specific art. If you can then find a teacher in it, you're golden.

I didn't give specifics because it's all up to you. Some people seem to organize their training in what they go for, but you can do just as well if you follow your nose.

CNYMike
04-03-2005, 11:51 PM
..... So busy studying other arts solutions that you can't see solutions that can be found in aikido to specific issues.

Even where Aikido clearly provides solutions, it never hurts to have more solutions. The fewer solutions you have, the fewer options you have if the first thing you try is countered.

John Houck
04-04-2005, 08:40 AM
Wake Noboru Fumoto No Michi Wa Chigae Demo
Onaji Takane No Tsuki o Miru Kana"
Translated by Sean Flynn, Professor and Aikido Instructor at Vassar University, it means "Each path to the peak is different, but once there, do we not gaze at the same moon?"

Everyone has their own path to their center, enjoy your cross training

jester
04-04-2005, 01:57 PM
Like most everyone else, I agree that you are not being disrespectful.

I think Judo, Ju-Jitsu and BJJ fit very well with Aikido and to me are very important. They are both flowing arts and lend themselves to expanding where Aikido leaves off. Aikido already has plenty of free movement techniques, so by studying Judo, Ju-Jitsu and BJJ rather than Karate, TKD etc. you will learn clinches, takedowns, sweeps and groundwork which I think Aikido lacks to be an overall effective system.

Adrian Price
04-07-2005, 10:33 AM
There are two fundamental issues with this.

1. Do you want something that will complement your Aikido?

if so then the answer is simple - Iaido look at the origins of Aikido and you will find elements of Iaido every where.

2. Do you want something different that will be of added benefit, whilst having no direct influence on your Aikido?

Then maybe Karate, TKD Kung Fu, Judo

Dazzler
04-07-2005, 11:00 AM
There are two fundamental issues with this.

1. Do you want something that will complement your Aikido?

if so then the answer is simple - Iaido look at the origins of Aikido and you will find elements of Iaido every where.

2. Do you want something different that will be of added benefit, whilst having no direct influence on your Aikido?

Then maybe Karate, TKD Kung Fu, Judo

Out of curiosity..how do you see iaido as a means to explore the origins of Aikido?

Why not look at a jujitsu form ?

D

Adrian Price
04-07-2005, 04:16 PM
Hmmmmmm.............

That is a difficult question to answer, although I have not studied Iaido in great depth, due to lack of good teachers where I lived, however I have had the priviledge of spending some time studying with some of the best Iaido teachers in Europe, and can see alot of elements from Iaido in Aikido.

I have also had the opporunity to study ju-Jitsu with lots of different teachers, each seeimng to have their own unique style etc... the one thing that I have found is that they all seem to teach a negative style or aggresive may be a better word. There does not seem to be any harmony or acceptance oif an attack.

These are of course my own observations, and I may be way off base with this, but the strangest thing I have found whilst travelling around is the number of Sensei that refer back to Iaido when teaching.

Dazzler
04-08-2005, 05:24 AM
Hmmmmmm.............

That is a difficult question to answer, although I have not studied Iaido in great depth, due to lack of good teachers where I lived, however I have had the priviledge of spending some time studying with some of the best Iaido teachers in Europe, and can see alot of elements from Iaido in Aikido.

I have also had the opporunity to study ju-Jitsu with lots of different teachers, each seeimng to have their own unique style etc... the one thing that I have found is that they all seem to teach a negative style or aggresive may be a better word. There does not seem to be any harmony or acceptance oif an attack.

These are of course my own observations, and I may be way off base with this, but the strangest thing I have found whilst travelling around is the number of Sensei that refer back to Iaido when teaching.

Thanks.

I think I know what you mean about jujitsu. I explain to my students that JJ techniques are general destructive while aikido techniques are constructive. eg you use them to learn rather than to destroy an opponents limbs.

I feel this use of techniques as learning tools is what differentiates aikido from jujitsu rather than just being another flavour.

I have found it extremely helpful though, in showing how these aikido moves can be applied if there is a need for more violence.

This is why I feel it has been very complimentary to my aikido practice.

Your final quote is really why I asked...I've seen a few people say that iaido is complementary...but then most justify it by saying that their japanese instructor told them this. I've also encountered a few 'living samurai' who would do anything remotely japanese because they felt it was the correct thing to do.

With my western mind I can see some benefit, but the returns against the investement in time seem minimal.

I have heard that it provides concentration / mind focus ...I personally think there may be better ways.

But we are all different - whats good for me may not be good for someone else.

Thanks for your response.

D