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phil-aiki
01-18-2005, 01:25 AM
hi everyone,
i just wanna asks you guys here.I went to back to my country for a long six mos. vacation in a province. So when i got there i saw this big "combat aikido" sign in a gym, i went in and enrolled myself(foolishly) without looking for their credentials and stuff like every dojo has to show.That night i practiced with them and noticed this:
A) All the students just plainly walks on and off the mat whenever they feel like it without dojo etiquette.
B) They all practice punching and kicking the whole time( like a karate club)but never does anything what aikido was known for stuff like ikkyo, nikyo koshi nage etc.
C) All the students including their shodans doesn't know how to roll,back roll. They dint even know what ikkyo or nikyo is. i showed them how and they were all like" hey,that's new and simple"
D) The sensei told me it's called "round roving" not "randori".
E) I asked why nobody is wearing a hakama he plainly answered it's ridiculous and for sissy only. :mad:
F) He charges 500pesos per month for 3 techniques. Goes to the gym 30 minutes late leaves 30 mins. earlier.

What do you guys think???.

Joe Bowen
01-18-2005, 01:33 AM
Sounds like Crap to me.

phil-aiki
01-18-2005, 01:37 AM
should i tell the students what he's doing?

Jason Haines
01-18-2005, 01:42 AM
Defintely not Aikido. Didn't sound much of anything else...formal, martial, or practical. Shame they use "aikido" to attract attention.

xuzen
01-18-2005, 02:38 AM
Interesting... Counterfeit aikido. Imitation is the best compliment.

Just some casual comment....

I wonder why the charlatan choses the name Combat Aikido and not Kombat Kali or Kombat Escrima? Or maybe Kombat Krav Magna (now that will be rethoric).

Is aikido so fearsome and effective that these charlatans are piggybacking on its name?

Hey Phil, just a thought... how abt asking some of the senior members to do some "round roving" with you and you do your normal randori practice, I bet they will learn a little or two abt "real aikido"?

Just a casual comment.

Boon.

Jason Haines
01-18-2005, 02:51 AM
Well, if Phil takes randori with real aikido, then this ,qoute, "sensei", unqoute, would lose his flock to our young Aikidoka. Perhaps a subtle suggestion to drop "aikido" from the instructors advertisement might be more proper and humble. Else a couple good shihonages, kotegaeshis and nikkyu or yankyu pins might smarten up this fight club...just be humble and peaceful and open an alternative to them... harmony is key, even when we are wrong or off balance, as I often am (ha ha)
Bueno Suerte!!!

PeterR
01-18-2005, 02:54 AM
C) All the students including their shodans doesn't know how to roll,back roll.

Neither can I.

E) I asked why nobody is wearing a hakama he plainly answered it's ridiculous and for sissy only. :mad:

Sounds like a Shodothug

What do you guys think???.
I guess that makes me dodgy.

batemanb
01-18-2005, 05:19 AM
There's a thread about combat Aikido in the Phillipines somewhere else, either here, on AJ or E-budo. It was a while back though, you may try searching for more info.

rgds

Bryan

batemanb
01-18-2005, 05:44 AM
Here you go

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?p=67389&highlight=combat+aikido#post67389

rgds

Bronson
01-18-2005, 08:30 AM
I guess that makes me dodgy.

That and soooo many other things ;) :D

Bronson

SeiserL
01-18-2005, 08:49 AM
IMHO, bow respectfully as you step off the mat and out the door.

OTOH, if you enjoyed the corss-training, learned what you can.

stuartjvnorton
01-18-2005, 05:56 PM
My guess is there's no genuine Aikido in the area, so there's less chance he'll be shown up as the fraud he is.

raul rodrigo
01-18-2005, 07:31 PM
My guess is there's no genuine Aikido in the area, so there's less chance he'll be shown up as the fraud he is.

Stuart, the area in question is Manila, where I practice. There are quite a few good aikikai dojos here, and yes, among us, the consensus among us is combat aikido/tapondo is a fraud. Several of the best combat aikido blackbelts saw it for what it was and left for the aikikai dojos where they started back at the beginning and went all the way back to a "real" blackbelt. One guy who was teaching combat aikido at a dojo in a suburb left it for our dojo, where he is now starting over as a white belt. Phil just didnt do enough research.

I think what he heard as "round roving" is actually "round robin." Given some Filipino accents, its understandable.

xuzen
01-18-2005, 08:03 PM
Disclaimer: The below is purely fictional. Any resemblance to person or events are entirely and purely coincidental.

Hi everyone,
I saw this big "combat karate" sign in a gym, i went in and enrolled myself (foolishly) without looking for their credentials and stuff like every dojo has to show.That night i practiced with them and noticed this:

A) All the students just sits in funny meditating position and perform some cultish bowing as though there are no proper dojo etiquette.
B) They all practice wrist grabbing and funny strike called atemi the whole time (like a judo club) but never does anything what karate was known for stuff like chuko zuki, gyaku zuki etc.
C) All the students including their shodans doesn't know how to block or punch. They didn't even know what ippon ken or tetsui is. I showed them how and they were all like " hey, that's new and simple"
D) The sensei told me it's called "come-hit-me" not "kumite".
E) I asked why nobody is wearing a karategi he plainly answered it's ridiculous and for sissy only. :mad: They were all in some funny black skirt.
F) He charges USD 500 per month for 3 techniques. He comes to class exaclty on time and often go to overtime explaining all the ridiculous cultish ideas.

What do you guys think???

Qatana
01-18-2005, 08:19 PM
We bowed in my karate dojo. And sat in seiza for five minutes.

aikidoc
01-18-2005, 09:42 PM
I agree with Lynn. Sounds more like a karate dojo posing as an aikido dojo. I'd just go find a real aikido dojo-sounds like there are some in the area.

phil-aiki
01-18-2005, 11:50 PM
Now that we all agree that's it not aikido. How will i tell the students about it without offending them. Coz i just found out that there's an aikikai dojo in thier are but its too small..

PeterR
01-19-2005, 12:02 AM
Quit that dojo and join the other. It's enough that people see you and maybe follow your example.

For those that don't it's really not your business.

phil-aiki
01-19-2005, 12:47 AM
Ok,i'll do that,sir. Domo!!!!

rob_liberti
01-19-2005, 07:46 AM
It is your business! Phil advertised his class as "aikido" and took your money. That makes you an aikido SEMPAI to your aikido KOHAI in that class. They are your responsbility period.

If you don't feel that way, then he should refund what you paid, and he should change the name to avoid such mistakes in the future. You should ask him to to that. Furthermore, you should AT LEAST tell the students that you have befriended that what they are doing might be fine ninjitsu or something but it is not aikido.

Rob

asiawide
01-19-2005, 08:36 AM
I saw some tapondo(Combat Aikido??) teaching on TV. It's more like jujitsu.
What I wonder is that the founder seems he learned something judging from its
web page. However, what he and other students wore makes me doubt. Mostly
I don't give any credit when one aikidoka wear colored gi.(like red or blue??)

Royce Reyes sensei at Makati YMCA Intl,
Crispin sensei at Quezon at Heart Center,
Macapawa sensei at Davao,
Rey sensei at Quezon at ABS-CBN compound.

They are quite and very nice. :)

Dominic Toupin
01-19-2005, 11:36 AM
However, what he and other students wore makes me doubt. Mostly
I don't give any credit when one aikidoka wear colored gi.(like red or blue??). :)

In Yoseikan Budo aikido, the followers of Hiroo Mochizuki wear blue and white gi. I think that the color of the gi has nothing to do with credit

Larry Feldman
01-19-2005, 03:33 PM
I think it is a good reason to watch a class before signing up.

An even better reason to watch before paying...

PeterR
01-19-2005, 06:12 PM
It is your business! Phil advertised his class as "aikido" and took your money. That makes you an aikido SEMPAI to your aikido KOHAI in that class. They are your responsbility period.
Bullocks.

By that argument an Aikikai guy with a couple years experience could walk into my dojo and start bad mouthing me and my style all in the name of responsibilty to his Kohei. He would be bounced out of there pretty hard and frankly it is very irresponsible advice to give some one. I can say you clearly have no idea what sempai/kohei actually means <-definately a flame.

rob_liberti
01-19-2005, 06:33 PM
Well Peter, let me see if I can put out that flame...

There is a _context_ to my line of reasoning. (It's not like I posted that in a mothering forum.) I've worked out with folks from the Tomiki system and they all seemed to know nikyo fairly well. If any aikido person with a few years of experience walks into your dojo and all you do there after several classes is punching and kicking - and no one has _ever_ seen ikkyo or nikyo then they should inform the students you're not teaching aikido either. Agreed?

I feel it is irresponsible to just walk away (*in that situation*).

Rob

PeterR
01-19-2005, 07:18 PM
If the person follows the advice he could find himself in a very difficult position - this is what I meant.

I think leading by example is the best option and you can not be accused of messing with someone's students no matter what they call themselves.

There are things in Tomiki Aikido that have some people say it is not Aikido so my example was apt. I've told a story about a similar thing happening to me although in that case the person had no Aikido experince.

From my perspective you don't have a sempai/kohei relationship in Aikido but in the dojo. It's a personal relationship not structural. These people may be misguided but are they your responsiblity?

By the way when I visited Honbu last Sunday one of the senior teachers grabbed my students and had them do nothing by drill various striking techniques. He felt their attacks needed work. If you had looked in at that time you would have been scratching your head. I don't know anything about Combat Aikido but some people believe that a bit of punch kick training would not be remiss.

rob_liberti
01-19-2005, 07:36 PM
Well this particular case is the extreme. He said _all_ they did was punch and kick and that they had _never_ seen nikyo. I think the instructor opened himself up to possibility of someone who has ever seen nikyo attending one of his classes. Also, my opinion is that he joined THAT dojo, so the sempai/kohai applies by your standards as well. Can we be friends again?

Rob

PeterR
01-19-2005, 08:00 PM
We were never enemies.

In the first post he had just joined the dojo (his first night) he would have no kohai.

I'm still wondering about the intent of that original post. The Combat Aikido website can be found here (http://www.geocities.com/combat_aikido/combat.htm). It's not mainstream for sure but my hackles weren't raised too much. Was the first post an actual experience or an attack on a competing style. Was the particular dojo an example of expansion run amok or a reflection of the style as a whole. Was it full of beginners? What sort of dojo has a first time member demonstrating techniques?

There are students in my group that were with me for over a year that hadn't seen kotemawashi or nikyo as the Aikikai calls it. For us i'ts not that important a technique for beginners to learn.

I also notice they are in the process of changing the name to TAPONDO International Federation so the question about whether it is Aikido or not will soon be moot.

fatebass21
01-19-2005, 08:28 PM
Wow, I would hate to be in Phil's shoes. lol.

rob_liberti
01-19-2005, 10:32 PM
No nikyo for a year? That's interesting. As far as sempai/kohai goes all I can say is that when I read he had hakama, I just assumed they recognised his rank in that dojo. No big deal.

If he was just kidding then shame on him.

If you feel have really been duped, and you think you can help others from being duped, AND you do nothing then shame on you.

Rob
It is very encouraging that they are changing their name.

phil-aiki
01-19-2005, 10:50 PM
I forgot to say this but they are not affiliated to Tapondo. I'm still open for all your suggestions. DOMO and mabuhay!!!!

PeterR
01-19-2005, 10:56 PM
No nikyo for a year? That's interesting.
Well if you had joined last week you would have seen it the first day. It's just not part of our curriculum until 4th kyu and I go through phases for what I teach outside of shinsa practice. Starting last week I've gotten into a suwariwaza series that includes kotemawashi.

Our little exchange is not defending or debasing one group or another - I just urge caution in making assumptions and using my own group by way of examples. If you look at the founder of Combat Aikido's biography he is pretty upfront about his Aikido background. He doesn't claim inflated rank and sokeships.


As far as sempai/kohai goes all I can say is that when I read he had hakama, I just assumed they recognized his rank in that dojo.

He asked about hakama did not say he had one or what his rank was.

If you feel have really been duped, and you think you can help others from being duped, AND you do nothing then shame on you.

I think this is the point I am really trying to get at. Are they really being duped (the founder had a Nidan from Tohei in the 1960s) and if so should you be the policeman? I think smoking is bad for you but should I go up and inform you of the fact?

Perhaps the person walked into a night of punch/kick training. Yoseikan Aikido dojos have those. Again maybe the dojo was garbage but ....

PeterR
01-19-2005, 10:59 PM
I forgot to say this but they are not affiliated to Tapondo. I'm still open for all your suggestions. DOMO and mabuhay!!!!
So it seems I made a few assumptions myself :D

Phil just be careful - martial arts frauds (especially where face needs to be saved) can be quite dangerous.

happysod
01-20-2005, 02:26 AM
If you feel have really been duped, and you think you can help others from being duped, AND you do nothing then shame on you [Rob - this is not a personal attack, but you were handy...] This is becoming a depressingly common theme in that if you see something that's not up to your ideas concerning aikido, you must challenge it. So, at what point (rank etc.) do people really feel they have the right (and duty) to act as aikido police? Who sets the standards (insert independents vs "true associations" here) and how do you go about things?

While the example given is a tad extreme (to say the least) for what constitutes aikido, I still think the bullish mentality evidenced by several posters on stamping out fraud etc. flies totally in the face of several other threads concerning both self-defense (being aware of risks as Peter so correctly pointed out) and your responsibilities to being respectful to an instructor while within their dojo.

You, as a student and an adult have the right not to go back! Simple as that, any other action should definitely be on a "buyer beware" status. Yes, if you see actual physical abuse and/or dangerous training (and even here the line is grey), I can understand then taking responsibility for other students. However, when dojo storming to maintain the "purity of an art" is cited as a good reason to get involved, my mind always wanders away to the "is aikido a cult" thread...

Phil, you didn't like it, so find somewhere else. If you can't find what would constitute in your mind "proper aikido", do something else under a qualified instructor.

rob_liberti
01-20-2005, 07:17 AM
Certainly things that are taken too far are not so good (which is why we call it "too far"). I agree that "policing aikido" in general is certainly not something that falls as easily into a black and white situaiton as what I thought was descibed here.

I'm sure we are in agreement that we cannot pin-point a rank for who gets to decide what aikido is and is not. However, I'm also of the opinion that doing minimal damage to the attacker (while protecting yourself of course!) is a central principle of aikido. Doing that requires a degree of depth in martial ability. My understanding is that the founder of aikido borrowed the term "aiki" from the okenden level (level of depth) of a particular sword style he knew about. We should be able to agree that there is a certain amount of martial "depth" expected from anyone teaching "aiki"do (otherwise, call what they do shoden-do or chuden-do). When I take ukemi, I can feel if the person is just trying surface level crap or if they have any depth to their understanding, can't you? I'd say that anyone at that point should be qualified to judge.

Rob

happysod
01-20-2005, 07:45 AM
Rob, I'd go further, a person is qualified to judge what is right for their own enjoyment in the dojo at any stage of their martial art. Judging things for yourself is part of what I'd consider being an adult. Now hopefully we all reserve judgement until we have at least some knowledge of what we're talking about (which is where I'm in agreement with John over easier access to credible descriptions of what is and probably what isn't aikido), it's the next stage of essentially attacking an instructor in his own dojo either verbally, through his/her students or through the the internet that I have some issues with.

Of the three, the only one which I have any truck with is the internet as this at least normally includes a consensus of opinion from a number of informed sources {ok, maybe naive if you look at some websites}, openly held and with a right to respond. The first two are too reliant on a "hakama'd crusader" to lead the lost lambs from the wilderness who hasn't got any real right to be in that dojo in the first place without the instructors permission - its just hubris to my mind

rob_liberti
01-20-2005, 08:46 AM
I see where you are coming from and I will not argue with you or Peter in general except that I firmly believe that if a "hakama'd crusader" had met me a long time ago, I would have wasted a LOT less life energy barking up what I can cleary see (NOW) was the wrong tree. I'd have more experience in at least better habits and my students of today would be getting better instruction from me. To just walk away and leave people behind that don't know any better is not doing them any favors. I feel that I was left behind a few times in the past, and I resent it.

Rob

jonreading
01-20-2005, 12:15 PM
Intervention!!

Man you guys picked a tough issue. I've thought about this for some time and I still have trouble with it.

Peter mentioned a smoking example in comment #32 that strikes me as a great example. As Americans, we have a right to not be around smokers. Many states have adopted bans on smoking in public areas. But do I have a right to tell an individual that smoking is bad? What if that person died from cancer? Would my intervention have saved his/her life?

I firmly believe that aikido practitioners should maintain the integrity of aikido by monitoring the activities of suspect dojo and personalities. Turning the other check is a great way not to get involved. But if everyone isn't involved, who will do something?

I understand Peter's concerns and I agree that this is a very narrow path to tread. But I also see Rob's point. I had a situation arise similar to this, and the response helped quite a bit...

A kickboxer was teaching cardio kickboxing at a local gym. She professed a black belt in kickboxing and that the fitness class was also self-defense training. One of her students (a TKD black belt) approached me (I was the building supervisor at the time) and confessed she had some concerns about the class and asked me to have a look. The class was great cardio, but crap kickboxing. I sat down with the instructor and questioned her about her credentials and told her that some students have presented concerns about the authenticity of her instruction. I asked her to provide her black belt certificate and a letter of introduction from her instructor to resolve the matter. Of course she didn't have a BB, nor an instructor - turns out she learned the "kick boxing" from Billie Blanks videos. I contacted the aerobics coordinator and asked to remove "self-defense" from the description and the matter went away.

Long story, but the point is that the concern of a student brought to my attention a problem with something under my supervision. I sure was glad to find out about the problem before someone got hurt.

Peter is right about confronting students and the instructor. I would never disrespect an instructor in front of students, or bad-mouth an instructor to students. If you truly have concerns, try talking directly to the instructor. Express your concerns and give him the opportunity to address them. You are paying him; he should be respectful and attentative to your questions.

PeterR
01-20-2005, 06:37 PM
I agree it should be the instructor you address if anyone.

I still am a strong advocate of leading by example. Leave the dojo and train somewhere else. If one of the students (or the instructor himself) asks you why you clearly state that the reason you left was because you don't think he was teaching Aikido. If pressed elaborate. Definitely don't get evangelical.

Another alternate (especially if there is no Aikido dojo to your liking) is to start your own group. I was worried when I did this at Shodan surrounded by several mid-ranked (3-5 Dan) Aikido instructors from different organizations although there was no doubt that they were legitimate. However, I was advised that if you are good people will come and they did. It is really not that difficult to do. In mine and the case described above people will notice a difference and take a look at books or hit the Internet. This is the best education you can offer the masses.

black panther
01-20-2005, 09:44 PM
I know the dojo that phil was talking about.they are professing that they're style is a purely filipino martial art.All I can say is that watching them much more practising with them is a big waste of time and money

black panther
01-20-2005, 10:06 PM
I also believe that it has something to do with ignorance about aikido here in the philippines.Most people don't know anything about aikido or any of its styles that just about anybody can put up a dojo and say that its aikido even though they lineage is somewhat blurry.

asiawide
01-20-2005, 10:20 PM
Try to watch this movie. 'Total Aikido'

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328555/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9dG90YWwgYWlraWRvfGh0bWw9 MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft=14

It was really painful to watch this movie. only available in the philippines. :)

black panther
01-20-2005, 10:48 PM
Yup.total aikido was a flop.at first i thought it was an action comedy flick

rob_liberti
01-21-2005, 07:46 AM
I agree with Peter that one should lead by example. I like Ghandi's example. He was a leader who not only know when to protest for truth, but did so with out fear of the consequences.

Rob
satya-grah!

darin
01-21-2005, 09:42 AM
In Yoseikan Budo aikido, the followers of Hiroo Mochizuki wear blue and white gi. I think that the color of the gi has nothing to do with credit

Hey Dominic. Does YWF still retain traditional Japanese customes in the dojo such as sitting in seiza and bowing etc?

By the way I read that Mitchi Mochizuki may be coming to Australian in April. Hope I get a chance to meet him. My school is trying to join up with the YWF.

wendyrowe
01-21-2005, 10:19 AM
...Does YWF still retain traditional Japanese customes in the dojo such as sitting in seiza and bowing etc?

They did at Hudson Harris Sensei's YWF dojo in Huntsville Aikido (Alabama); I had a good time visiting there over Christmas. It was my first time experiencing Yoseikan, and I had time to attend two classes while I was in town. It was fun to practice techniques incorporating kicks.

Dominic Toupin
01-21-2005, 02:31 PM
Hey Dominic. Does YWF still retain traditional Japanese customes in the dojo such as sitting in seiza and bowing etc?

Yes We do Seiza, Mokusu, and bowing.

Robert Cheshire
02-03-2005, 12:02 PM
Hey Dominic. Does YWF still retain traditional Japanese customes in the dojo such as sitting in seiza and bowing etc?

By the way I read that Mitchi Mochizuki may be coming to Australian in April. Hope I get a chance to meet him. My school is trying to join up with the YWF.

Darin: I would suggest that ANY time you get a chance to train with Mitchi Mochizuki that you do it! He is very talented and is an excellent teacher. He is very mature for his age and brings all the knowledge you would expect from a member of the Mochizuki family.

I know that your school would enjoy being a part of the YWF family. My instructor is a member of the YWF International Board of Directors and would be glad to help where he can in your transition.

To answer your original question - Yes - they still do some of the "traditional" elements, but, don't try to kill your knees with prolonged with seiza :) !

stuartjvnorton
02-03-2005, 08:43 PM
By the way I read that Mitchi Mochizuki may be coming to Australian in April. Hope I get a chance to meet him. My school is trying to join up with the YWF.


If he does visit Oz, where will he be?
Is there an open seminar planned?
How evenly integrated are the different aspects? The Oz site I checked out looked almost _entirely_ focused on the karate aspect.

Robert Cheshire
02-03-2005, 11:02 PM
Yoseikan Budo is a synthesis of stricking, throws, joint locks, and ground fighting. You could say they built into aspects of MMA even before there was the concept of MMA.

Where you are depends on what aspect is the focal point. There are several schools in Europe that deal with the karate type aspects. In the United States there is a strong aiki focus.

Mitchi can do it all (and make it look easy).

phil farmer
02-10-2005, 10:30 AM
Let me just add a few things here. First, Mitchi Sensei is 5th Dan and can indeed do any aspect of Yoseikan, aiki, jiujutsu, weapons, etc. He is supposed to come to Australia (as far as I know) and you can find that on the YWF website. I have been in touch with an Austalian group who wanted to join YWF so I hope they have made contact. To my knowledge all YWF (and USYBA) clinics are open to all arts. The Japanese customs do vary. In the U.S., at my fellow instructor, Hudson Harris' dojo, they do indeed wear the white gi still (most members) and bow in traditionally. At my dojo, we wear the blue and white gi with blue and white belt and we do a standing bow in, in the tradition of Mitchi Mochizuki and my visits to our international clinics. By the way, the blue and white gi of Yoseikan Budo represents Yin and Yang. I was told that it is blue and white because Master Hiroo Mochizuki does not like black gi. Go figure. It also relates to the wave, which is a basic Yoseikan principle.

Phil Farmer
Yoseikan World Federation
U.S. Yoseikan Budo Association

darin
02-10-2005, 11:20 AM
We haven't made any contact yet. Reminds me I should send another e-mail to the technical head of Australia. He describes Mitchi as an amazing martial artist. By the way how old is Mitchi?

In my school we retain the seiza, meditation and bowing to the shomen etc. I think its good to keep some aspect of the Japanese culture and language in the dojo for historical and advertising purposes and a good way of getting your mind into the mood for training.

darin
02-10-2005, 11:38 AM
If he does visit Oz, where will he be?
Is there an open seminar planned?
How evenly integrated are the different aspects? The Oz site I checked out looked almost _entirely_ focused on the karate aspect.

Probably Perth. I don't know about any seminars. You will have to talk to Roy Hebden the Technical Head about that.

Yeah the dojo on the Oz site is Roy's school. He teaches traditional karate as well as Yoseikan Budo. I think most of his students are kids who want to learn tournament karate.

darin
02-10-2005, 11:53 AM
Yoseikan Budo is a synthesis of stricking, throws, joint locks, and ground fighting. You could say they built into aspects of MMA even before there was the concept of MMA.

Where you are depends on what aspect is the focal point. There are several schools in Europe that deal with the karate type aspects. In the United States there is a strong aiki focus.

Mitchi can do it all (and make it look easy).

I have a copy of Minoru Mochizuki's book "Nihonden jujitsu, kuro obi aikido". He definately made an attempt at creating a MMA. The book has sections on karate, aiki jujitsu, iai, kenjutsu and judo.

Robert Cheshire
02-16-2005, 11:26 AM
Darin - I'm jealous that you have a copy of the book! It's out of print and I've been trying to get a copy that someone will part with for about ten years.

darin
02-16-2005, 11:59 PM
Darin - I'm jealous that you have a copy of the book! It's out of print and I've been trying to get a copy that someone will part with for about ten years.

I basically photocopied every page in the book and put the copies into a file. One day I will borrow it again and PDF the whole thing.

James Lavin
02-18-2005, 07:28 AM
Well Peter, let me see if I can put out that flame...

There is a _context_ to my line of reasoning. (It's not like I posted that in a mothering forum.) I've worked out with folks from the Tomiki system and they all seemed to know nikyo fairly well. If any aikido person with a few years of experience walks into your dojo and all you do there after several classes is punching and kicking - and no one has _ever_ seen ikkyo or nikyo then they should inform the students you're not teaching aikido either. Agreed?

I feel it is irresponsible to just walk away (*in that situation*).

Rob
LEAVE



jim


:ai: :ki: :do:

rob_liberti
02-23-2005, 01:06 PM
You're not the boss of me. :)

For the future, seriously, please bother to read the whole thread and then contribute to it or move on.

-Rob

villrg0a
07-08-2005, 11:47 PM
Rikimaru,

The thread starter said that they are not in any way affiliated with Tapondo. Here in Saudi Arabia there's a big group called Philippines Martial Arts Combat Aikido. They do jujitsu thingy.

Just for everybody's info, M Gavileno was promoted by K. Tohei (late 60's /early 70's) twice, shodan and nidan, this is according to their website. They do have ikkyo, nikkyo, etc. The only thing obviously different is that they call IRIMI NAGE a KOKYU NAGE. I guess they still do in other Tohei affiliated organizations.

Just sharing my thoughts...