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Dominic Toupin
01-12-2005, 03:46 PM
I read in A´kido Journal encyclopedia the definition of sutemi :

(Self-abandonment). Term used to denote a breakfall or sacrifice technique in martial arts. In most aikido styles, refers to a high breakfall. In YOSEIKAN AIKIDO, refers to a series of sacrifice falls that result in counter-throws.

I train in Yoseikan A´kido and I want to know if another style of A´kido have sutemi technique.

Brehan Crawford
01-12-2005, 04:04 PM
I know Kanai Sensei has taught them in the USAF.

Janet Rosen
01-12-2005, 04:41 PM
In the various aikikai dojo in which I've trained it also has referred to "sacrifice" situations, not necessarily any particular (high)fall but techniques for taking the other's balance that also result in your own balance being taken.

raul rodrigo
01-12-2005, 05:58 PM
My shihan taught us a sacrifice throw that in judo is called yoko wakare/ side separation. My first sensei taught us uke waza, another judo technique. I dont think they are on the aikikai syllabus, however, but were taught to us simply as demonstrations of aiki principles. How to use a lot of incoming energy to throw uke.

xuzen
01-12-2005, 07:53 PM
Love sutemi entirely. Not in my dojo syllabus, but sensei taught it to us nonetheless and it appears quite regularly in randori/jiyu waza. Don't know why, but the kids love it (hyperactive rugrats... what can i say)

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The surprised look on the shite when uke surprises with a sutemi counter... Priceless.

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batemanb
01-13-2005, 01:29 AM
We don't teach it as part of our syllabus but it is something that you learn as you go along. I have a favourite "aiki nage" that can be classed as sutemi waza, I sometimes employ it in randori. It works a treat when the timing is right, but I did get stabbed in the @rse with a tanto during my Shodan shinsa when I telegraphed it a bit to my uke (you reading Derek :)). Fortunately I was facing the panel and it wasn't obvious until the video footage highlighted it later :D.

Regards

Bryan

Derek Webb
01-13-2005, 04:42 AM
Hi Bryan

Don't actually remember. Good thing it was not one of Keith's specials. However, I do remember you getting your own back. At least your atemis work!

Regards

Delboy

Ron Tisdale
01-13-2005, 11:28 AM
I don't recall seeing them in any official yoshinkan syllibus, but I've been taught some by yoshinkan instructors. Also seen them in other styles. I like them...many are excellent show stoppers if attacked. Ellis Amdur taught a nice one as a counter to Iriminage at one of his seminars (it made for a nice transition into ground work if you like that kind of thing [ended up in side control, I believe]). A similar one was taught to me by my first yoshinkan instructor, but that one ended with the person using the counter kneeling instead of reclining. Its always nice to have options! Course, when I did that one at a seminar, someone accused me of doing judo. :> I always know I did a nice throw when someone accuses me of doing judo! :)

RT

Ron Tisdale
01-13-2005, 11:29 AM
It works a treat when the timing is right, but I did get stabbed in the @rse with a tanto during my Shodan shinsa when I telegraphed it a bit to my uke (you reading Derek :)).

OUCH. Remind me never to do that....

:) RT

MaryKaye
01-13-2005, 02:49 PM
I was playing with an Aikikai student in Oregon; she had just thrown me, and I was lying on my back still holding her arm. I pulled hard--she must have been off balance--and she took a forward roll over me, seizing my arm in the process, and used the momentum of coming up off the mat to flip me over and pin me.

I've always admired this technique, but never found out how she did it. Is that similar to what's being discussed here?

Mary Kaye

Don
01-13-2005, 04:45 PM
Two years ago at the USAF eastern region summer camp, Kanai sensei taught a class consisting entirely of sutemi waza. He also answered questions about it, and at least according to what I remember, sutemi waza was not encouraged and taught actively by O'Sensei at the time when Kanai was there. I think (and this is purely my opinion based on what I heard and observed) that since Kanai sensei also had a judo background he adpated these techniques into his aikido. These were a fun diversion from "normal" aikido. It is a shame he has passed on.

Fred Little
01-13-2005, 08:38 PM
I was playing with an Aikikai student in Oregon; she had just thrown me, and I was lying on my back still holding her arm. I pulled hard--she must have been off balance--and she took a forward roll over me, seizing my arm in the process, and used the momentum of coming up off the mat to flip me over and pin me.

I've always admired this technique, but never found out how she did it. Is that similar to what's being discussed here?

Mary Kaye

It sounds as if you converted your fall into a sutemi waza and she countered with another: Twofer!

Fred Little

NagaBaba
01-13-2005, 08:50 PM
Two years ago at the USAF eastern region summer camp, Kanai sensei taught a class consisting entirely of sutemi waza.........

Sensei taught sutemi, but instructed that sutemi is not part of Budo practice and we must be aware about limits of this technique.

Rupert Atkinson
01-24-2005, 01:59 AM
I too like sutemi-waza. I got mine from Tomiki, Judo, Jujutsu, Kyushindo and Judo. I think almost everyone does them except standard Aikido groups.

And if I do/teach them in Aikido it's as though I am doing something taboo ...

Robert Cheshire
01-27-2005, 11:34 PM
Dominic - Your post makes it seem like sutemi is used only in counter throws. They can and often do stand alone as the initial attack/throw.

There are some other styles that do sutemi, but, it really is a hallmark of Yoseikan due to Minoru Mochizuki's background.

P.S. Always glad to see another Yoseikan person on here!

Dominic Toupin
01-28-2005, 02:36 PM
You are right, Tabouret Sensei, my Sensei, in Beauport Quebec, uses sutemi for counter-throw and directly to throw a partner. Sutemi are the total package !!!