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Michael Neal
12-13-2004, 01:11 PM
If you could make one change in Aikido, what would it be? Of course this question will not to apply to anyone who thinks Aikido needs no change at all in any area.

Greg Jennings
12-13-2004, 01:32 PM
I have control of my own, personal, aikido and, strictly within that context, I do as I please. So, no changes.

Best,

disabledaccount
12-13-2004, 02:22 PM
More emphasis on atemi waza. I'd like to see thorough pressure point/cavity press information, not just "Okay, here's Yonkyo". I'd also like to see makiwara and tameshiwara taught at your average dojo. I was reading an interview of Mark Murishige Sensei where he said that they used to have makiwara in the garden at Hombu dojo, and that all of the uchideshi were required to train thier atemi waza on them every day. I'd like to see a return to this standard. As it is, I must train these things on my own.

bob_stra
12-13-2004, 02:38 PM
If you could make one change in Aikido, what would it be? Of course this question will not to apply to anyone who thinks Aikido needs no change at all in any area.


Just one?

In so much that it reflects my personal biases -

I would make cross training once a week / fortnight / month mandatory.

Preferably in judo :-) Or bare knuckle boxing.

Go the aikiOrcs !!

saltlakeaiki
12-13-2004, 05:13 PM
I realize this may be a bit controversial... but in the best of all possible worlds I'd like to have a more objective (empirical?) way of ... how to put this :)... determining the pecking order. Straightforwardly, you can read that as "determining rank promotion". But it also extends to "being able to really know whether a given application of technique in a given situation actually works or not." I hope I worded that carefully enough. I have no desire to start a flame war.

But let's face it, the way most of us practice most of the time requires the cooperation of uke. This isn't a controversial statement, is it? :) We don't have anything like true competition, and I wouldn't change that. I'm 100% behind the Founder's proscription of it. But you gotta admit, it does make it hard sometimes to know how "real" we're being.

So all I'm saying is: I wish there were a way to be able to judge more objectively.

Dave

David Humm
12-13-2004, 05:35 PM
I'd get rid of all the self promoted "shihan" "soke" "8th, 9th 10th dan" nob-jocky we have floating around discrediting Aiki as a whole.

I may well be narrow minded (and I make no apologies for that) however, when it comes to credibility, I don't see a "live and let live" philosophy. You are what you earn. Simple as that in my book.

Christmas Quiz

Guess how many 8th dans we have in the UK.
Guess how many of those are from independant Org.
Guess how many of those came from Japanese sources.

Answers on a post card :D :D

Dave
PS... Mental Note: Don't post whilst drunk !

Rupert Atkinson
12-13-2004, 05:36 PM
Last September I participated in the IAF congress seminar in Tokyo. At the end the various member coutries all did demos. What was clear to me was that the demos from Japan (2 off) were simple, straight, normal, plain as can be, ordinary, yet solid, Aikido - just what you expect. Many of the demos from other countries seemed to have some kind of personal slant - really soft, really hard, obviously mixed with Jujutsu or some variiant, obviously mixed with Tai Chi, and so on. There were a few 'straight Aikido' demos, whatever straight may be ... but I was surprised at the extent of the differences and could only wonder what the Japanese thought about it all. Of course, there are several slants within Japan too, but no to the extent outside, so it seems.

Accordingly, I don't think there are any rules to change. It would be good if all could diverge on a common point though, but I doubt that is possible.

PS I'll define straight as what the Doshu does - anyone who has attended a seminar of his will know that he just does textbook-solid stuff without windy explanations. From my point of view, no slant whatsoever, and I like it.

PPS And before the demos, somebody asked what they should do. The reply was, "Show what you normally do/teach in your home country..."

aikidoc
12-13-2004, 07:17 PM
"I'd get rid of all the self promoted "shihan" "soke" "8th, 9th 10th dan" nob-jocky we have floating around discrediting Aiki as a whole."

Dave-I'd agree with you on that one and lower it down to self promoted 6th dans and add in the professor and doctor titles as well that are floating around. Plus I'd add in the ridiculous claims some of these guys are making on websites about their skills (like cutting paper with energy only).

Makes us all look like crack pots.

Michael Neal
12-13-2004, 08:05 PM
I posed the same question about Judo on Judoinfo.com in case anyone is interested.

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3408

Michael Neal
12-13-2004, 08:11 PM
I think it is interesting that practitioners of both Judo and Aikido seem to want more atemi waza training incorporated into practice.

Rocky Izumi
12-13-2004, 08:30 PM
"I'd get rid of all the self promoted "shihan" "soke" "8th, 9th 10th dan" nob-jocky we have floating around discrediting Aiki as a whole."

Dave-I'd agree with you on that one and lower it down to self promoted 6th dans and add in the professor and doctor titles as well that are floating around. Plus I'd add in the ridiculous claims some of these guys are making on websites about their skills (like cutting paper with energy only).

Makes us all look like crack pots.

I can cut wind with only my internal energy, though lactose-based input also helps as does any sort of carb. I could even exaggerate and say can even crack pots with my internal energy, it is so strong.

Rock :hypno:

Charles Hill
12-13-2004, 11:31 PM
I wish there were a way to be able to judge more objectively.

Hi Dave,

Any ideas as how to do this? In my personal opinion, the kind of thing you are talking about can happen when two people develop a solid personal relationship in the context of training and slowly, step by step, start to "go for it." But this of course is not objective. :)
Charles

disabledaccount
12-14-2004, 01:29 AM
I think it is interesting that practitioners of both Judo and Aikido seem to want more atemi waza training incorporated into practice.

I'm surprised more people haven't jumped on this bandwagon. After all, didn't O'Sensei say "Aikido is 90% atemi"? I'm lightly hitting uke all the time when he/she makes an error with the ukemi. There's usually a huge opening in that case. I get hit quite a bit as well while taking ukemi for my Sensei.

On the otther hand it dosen't seem to be a very big part of the focus for Aikido as a whole these days. I'm amazed at the number of people I've met who don't even know Aikido has atemi-waza, or even more disappointing, can't throw a punch.

batemanb
12-14-2004, 01:35 AM
I have control of my own, personal, aikido and, strictly within that context, I do as I please. So, no changes.

Best,


Ditto.


Reading the posts here, save dealing with the "nob jockey's" (nice description Dave :D), all changes are easily implementable by those who want them, those that don't can choose to ignore and implement their own changes.

If you are talking about making a unilateral change that will affect all Aikido, then I agree with what Rupert said about Doshu, good straight Aikido. I'd like everyone to follow the way that he does it and all come back under one roof.

What are the chances?


exactly, therefore I stand by my agreement with Greg :).

rgds

Bryan

ruthmc
12-14-2004, 02:17 AM
I'd get rid of the "my style / sensei / club is better than yours" nonsense that still permeates far too many people's thinking. Just train. If you're good, students will learn good Aikido from you. No need to scream about it, start flame wars, or post offensive comments about other styles / people.

Ruth

happysod
12-14-2004, 02:40 AM
either

1. A strange virus infects every hakama in the world and they all fall to pieces so I never have to wear the damn things ever ever again
2. Everyone else leaves aikido and by default I become de-facto soka-doshu-generalissimo pope the third of aikido with full titles to all their real-estate and develop the true (tm) aikido that only I posess

I'm kinda torn

p00kiethebear
12-14-2004, 02:59 AM
Get rid of all politics.

Of course this is what i would change about a lot of things these days.

Yann Golanski
12-14-2004, 04:37 AM
Ian, are you joining the Shodothugs in their "We don't need no hakama" war cries? I am shocked!!! No really I am!

As to all of you who want more atemi, please come to a Shodokan dojo and ask to be shown the atemi waza. There are some clips on the JAA web pages you can look at but they are small and not of great quality.

The only thing I would like to change is the ability to make a living teaching or just doing Aikido.

happysod
12-14-2004, 06:50 AM
Yann, huh, I was complaining about hakamas on aikiweb long before I denounced the evil that was shodothuggery - (namby pamby damn nuisancy toe breaking things, only use they've ever been is to your opponent as an extra bit to grab)

Michael Neal
12-14-2004, 09:17 AM
In think the hakama is the one most important reason I have not taken Aikido up again, I like practicing in pajamas alone.

Rocky Izumi
12-14-2004, 03:14 PM
In think the hakama is the one most important reason I have not taken Aikido up again, I like practicing in pajamas alone.
More fun in the nude.

Rock

John Boswell
12-14-2004, 03:31 PM
Sensei Riggs said: "Plus I'd add in the ridiculous claims some of these guys are making on websites about their skills (like cutting paper with energy only)."

...but I CAN cut paper with energy only! I extend my Ki and ONLY my Ki to influence the siccors which cuts the paper.

How do YOU do it? I'll bet you can't cut paper at all! Pshh! :p

*snickers* :D

Did I mention my 10th Dan ranking in Vaccum Ryu? or Slapda Ho Ryu? :confused:

No?

:rolleyes:

Michael Neal
12-14-2004, 03:32 PM
More fun in the nude.

Rock

Thta would be one scary Aikido class, unless it was all women of course :)

John Boswell
12-14-2004, 03:36 PM
Where do I sign up?

er... to um... help teach that is. Or... or... I could like, take ukemi !! Yeah! I'll do that. :p

Rocky Izumi
12-14-2004, 03:41 PM
Okay guys, imagine taking a real fast ikkyo ura that gets you sliding along the mat rather than flopping down. Or a suwariwaza ikkyo ura. Hee hee hee.

Rock

Rocky Izumi
12-15-2004, 07:34 AM
Get everyone to keep their gis and belts washed and folded and to fold their hakamas properly between classes.

Rock

Mark Balogh
12-15-2004, 09:27 AM
I would reverse the splits so that everyone could enjoy the great teachings of Tohei, Shioda, Saito, old Doshu etc together. :)

kironin
12-15-2004, 11:30 AM
I would reverse the splits so that everyone could enjoy the great teachings of Tohei, Shioda, Saito, old Doshu etc together. :)

I go along with that one so we would all be practicing and understand no-touch throws. :D

Pauliina Lievonen
12-15-2004, 12:49 PM
I'd get people to wash their feet before they step on the mat. Sheesh...

kvaak
Pauliina

Greg Jennings
12-15-2004, 12:51 PM
OK, since this has come to humor:

I wish the really hot women drastically outnumbered the guys.

Best,

thomas_dixon
12-15-2004, 12:59 PM
OK, since this has come to humor:

I wish the really hot women drastically outnumbered the guys.

Best,


Then I'd wish Aikido was more like judo... oooooohhh yeeeeeeaaaahhh.

Michael Neal
12-15-2004, 01:02 PM
There are not alot of real hot girls in Judo, I can tell you that

kironin
12-15-2004, 01:40 PM
OK, since this has come to humor:

I wish the really hot women drastically outnumbered the guys.

Best,


you should add, "and looks, fame and money didn't matter to them, only inner beauty."

:crazy: :uch:

Greg Jennings
12-15-2004, 02:04 PM
Well, Craig, 2 of 3 ain't bad.

Pauliina Lievonen
12-15-2004, 05:01 PM
I wish the really hot women drastically outnumbered the guys.


Monday class that I lead we had 6 women and three men on the mat...

What do you mean, of course we're all hot!
:cool:

I was being deadly serious about the feet btw :yuck: :hypno: :crazy: :freaky: :confused: :yuck:

kvaak
Pauliina

CNYMike
12-17-2004, 08:13 PM
If you could make one change in Aikido, what would it be? Of course this question will not to apply to anyone who thinks Aikido needs no change at all in any area.

Given the way this thread has gone, I have two answers:

The Serious Answer: More sensitivity drills practiced more often. Although Aikidoists frequenstly start at what may be considered boxing or kickboxing range, their technqies frequently take them to distances and angles where even if they can see uke trying something, by the time they register what their eyes are telling them, it'll be too late to do anything about it. They are just too close for the eyes to be any good. You have to feel what the other person is doing through whatever "attachments" you get. This is why Chinese martial arts have sensitivity drills; the chis sao drills in Wing Chun are a perfect examples. Filipino Martial Arts also have such drills, like hampak higot hubud lubud ("hit tie untie blend"). I know Aikido has such drills; I think there need to be more of them done more frequently, as regular a part of training as ukemi waza. Yep, that important IMHO.

The not-so-serious answer: I'll endorse and combine two suggestions made previously: All nude classes where hot women outnumber men. :p :p ;) ;) :) :)

We are so busted by the Thought Police if this gets out .... :eek: :D

Troy
12-17-2004, 08:19 PM
I personally would have more emphases on the philosophy in the dojo. I know I can do this when I start my own dojo, but I feel that aikidoka would benifit greatly from these discussions. but, that is just me.

MaryKaye
12-17-2004, 10:42 PM
I'd like there to be one...just one, that's all I ask...weapons kata for jo or bokken that was the same everywhere, so that when visiting other dojo I wouldn't be *completely* at a loss during weapons practice.

I was very surprised the other day to see someone at another school doing what looked for all the world like the first thirteen or so counts of the Ki Society jo dai-ichi taigi. The feeling of familiarity was quite muddled, however, by the fact that he was doing it with a bo! Does anyone know the origin of this thing, and whether it started out as a jo kata or a bo kata?

Mary Kaye

thomas_dixon
12-17-2004, 11:24 PM
There are not alot of real hot girls in Judo, I can tell you that

Yeah but if there were more hot girls in AIkido, and then Aikido was more like Judo, then you'd be rolling around on a mat with hot girls...my logic owns.

Rocky Izumi
12-18-2004, 06:37 AM
Boy, a lot of testosterone on this website!

Rock

Qatana
12-18-2004, 08:11 AM
Gosh, there are only three professional nude models in my dojo. Sorry.

Qatana
12-18-2004, 08:13 AM
But seriously- I don't see a need to change aikido, just my dojo. I'd like it to be in its own space, with classes every morning and evening, including weapons, yoga and tai chi.
wouldn't mind having my work studio built in there as well...

CNYMike
12-18-2004, 09:33 AM
Gosh, there are only three professional nude models in my dojo. Sorry.

That's quite all right. And if you could spare one, or two .... or even all three ..... :p :p :p

CNYMike
12-18-2004, 09:35 AM
Boy, a lot of testosterone on this website!

Rock

You're one to talk!

Rocky Izumi
12-19-2004, 04:23 PM
You're one to talk!

Too old for testosterone here. I just survive on my religion of pentinence. My attitude come from an overabundance of methane. Yes. I am full of it . . . . a windbag . . . . full of hot air . . . . etc.
Hee hee hee.

By the way, what's wrong with testosterone?

Rock

CNYMike
12-20-2004, 09:51 AM
....By the way, what's wrong with testosterone?

Rock

You tell me -- you were the one who pointed it out.

Rocky Izumi
12-21-2004, 11:17 PM
You tell me -- you were the one who pointed it out.
Pointing out that there was a lot of testosterone here is not an indication of disapproval. It might even be a statement of approval!

Gaack!!! :hypno:

CNYMike
12-22-2004, 09:25 AM
Pointing out that there was a lot of testosterone here is not an indication of disapproval. It might even be a statement of approval!

Gaack!!! :hypno:

Uhm ..... ok ..... now just calm down, deep and slow breaths, put down the boken and take your medication .... :freaky: :D

Rocky Izumi
12-24-2004, 09:08 PM
Uhm ..... ok ..... now just calm down, deep and slow breaths, put down the boken and take your medication .... :freaky: :D
Ahhhh! I left my medication in Barbados! And this cold weather is driving me nuts!

Rock in the Canadian Prairies -- freezing his nuts off at -43 C.

CNYMike
12-25-2004, 09:48 AM
Ahhhh! I left my medication in Barbados! And this cold weather is driving me nuts!

Rock in the Canadian Prairies -- freezing his nuts off at -43 C.

See what happens when you let aiki-Canucks lure you away from home? Just remember to CLOSE the dojo's outside door when you do your penanace -- er, PRACTICE. :D

thomas_dixon
12-26-2004, 12:52 AM
Boy, a lot of testosterone on this website!

Rock

I'm 16...I have enough in my body to give me a buzz for a week. :x

flipstil
12-26-2004, 10:27 AM
Aikido as a PURE art is everything it is supposed to be.

My question would be What can I change about my interpretation of Martial arts to include the things I love about Akido. I practice Goshin Jutsu and have been exposed to Aikido for a while now. Aikido lends itself well to seemless transitions between styles and "fits in" great. It teaches flow, balance and Ki extension. IT IS GREAT however, I would not feel complete without having gained knowledge in Boxing, Kenpo, Judo and Ju-jistu

In my life I choose not to change the art- the art changes me. ;)

tedehara
12-26-2004, 04:11 PM
I'd like there to be one...just one, that's all I ask...weapons kata for jo or bokken that was the same everywhere, so that when visiting other dojo I wouldn't be *completely* at a loss during weapons practice.

I was very surprised the other day to see someone at another school doing what looked for all the world like the first thirteen or so counts of the Ki Society jo dai-ichi taigi. The feeling of familiarity was quite muddled, however, by the fact that he was doing it with a bo! Does anyone know the origin of this thing, and whether it started out as a jo kata or a bo kata?

Mary KayeK. Tohei devised this form to teach basic jo movements. Look at Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere to see an earlier version. It is located in the center of the book. In the hardback version, it is the centerfold.

The Ki Society first jo taigi is derived from that form.

Dan Herak
12-27-2004, 12:19 PM
I would instruct practitioners to be better ukes. The way one advances, in aikido or anything else, is to be challenged slightly above one's current ability. If a challenge is to easy, it is not really a challenge. If it is too difficult (a relative concept), one often does not learn because the task is too far above where one is at.

Applying this to aikido, some ukes basically just throw themselves, thereby denying one the opportunity of truly throwing them. The other extreme are ukes who are much better than oneself and try to frustrate you at every opportunity and usually have the effect of preventing any meaningful learning.

This is not a wish for easy training. I like to train just as hard as the next guy. Those ukes who are obstructionist often like to claim they are just being challenging. I do not believe them. I think they are often trying to show off at someone else's expense. As a ni kyu, I am at both sides of this. I give it more rough to those my rank, but try to ease it up for lower ranked people but still give them enough of an attack for the skill level they are at.

Jeanne Shepard
12-27-2004, 06:36 PM
Gosh, there are only three professional nude models in my dojo. Sorry.

What about a retired professional nude model? ; )

Jeanne :p

Qatana
12-27-2004, 07:34 PM
I've been known to train with one in San Francisco...

Janet Rosen
12-27-2004, 11:57 PM
heheheh ... actually, like Jeanne, I suppose my status is retired; haven't posed for a couple yrs now. It was fun doing short poses w/ bokken--just go through a kata slowly, freezing for the appropriate length of time every half turn or cut!

Greg Jennings
12-28-2004, 06:49 AM
Gosh, when I said "hot", why did y'all leap immediately to model appearance? That has so little to do with "hot". And I'm not being PC here.

Sincerely!,

Qatana
12-28-2004, 09:33 AM
Oh, I was just pandering to the general tone of immaturity that was creeping into this thread.

I know from experience there is Nothing "hot" about it. Usually quite the opposite.

SeiserL
12-29-2004, 07:56 AM
If I could change one thing in Aikido it would be the attitude that most people want to change Aikido into what they think it should be instead of training in what Aikido already is. IMHO, maybe we need to focus less on what Aikido isn't and more on what Aikido is.

Renzo Roncal Soto
05-23-2007, 04:12 PM
More than one i would like. Of my experience and by observation of videos, i see that neglecting how to shortening the distance to arrive at the contact, of a safe way, without exposing to contra attacks. In other words, to make emphasis in trapping before grappling.

Another point is the necessity of the implantation of atemi waza from the beginning of the aikido practices. And nonsingle that, how to learn to uniting atemis to the techniques, in such a way that flowing of the movement is not affected.

Another thing is the suwariwaza, seems to me that too much importance to this work, when is only a exercise without no "real" practical application. To exercise a strong displacement, balance and energy, there are many other exercises that do not hurt our knees !! :grr:

This is my 3 cents.

CNYMike
05-23-2007, 06:09 PM
I'm glad this thread has revived because I would like to change my answer:

The one thing I am not crazy about is the concept of ukemi waza that are dangerous for uke. People I know outside Aikido credit it for super safe ukemi, particularly the forward roll: By going from the lead shoulder to the rear hip, you protect your head in case something goes wrong! So the concept of more advanced ukemi that are risky for uke makes no sense from that perspective! If I have to learn them, I have to lear them, and they may make sense when I get to that point. But otherwise, I don't get it.

CNYMike
05-23-2007, 06:15 PM
If I could change one thing in Aikido it would be the attitude that most people want to change Aikido into what they think it should be instead of training in what Aikido already is. IMHO, maybe we need to focus less on what Aikido isn't and more on what Aikido is.

AMEN.

Luc X Saroufim
05-23-2007, 09:47 PM
1. A strange virus infects every hakama in the world and they all fall to pieces so I never have to wear the damn things ever ever again


although I'm a bit ways off, i am not looking forward to the day when i have to put one on. i think it's counterintuitive to introduce snag potential to a martial art that emphasizes ukemi.

Angela Dunn
05-24-2007, 06:21 AM
Seriously I like the way I get trained in Aikido just the way it is thank you very much.

However if I could change one thing about aikido is people who do not practice it attitudes to it. I have been trying to get people I know to come along to a class and the two schools of thought are are like, "Oh hell no, to much rough and tumble for me" and the opposite "Nope not violant enough!" It appears I can not win, *Sigh!* Off course it could just be the people I know.

So If I could change anything it would be its perception to those who are not initated in the skills and attitude involved and generally how well known it is in the public eye.

Ideas on how to do that would be very welcome.

gdandscompserv
05-24-2007, 07:55 AM
Ian, are you joining the Shodothugs in their "We don't need no hakama" war cries? I am shocked!!! No really I am!
I have a love/hate relationship with my hakama. I am currently in the hate phase.

ChrisHein
05-24-2007, 09:26 AM
Pretending.

antonis paps
05-24-2007, 02:48 PM
No changes needed.
Change comes within ones self.

Michael Douglas
05-26-2007, 12:57 PM
Tanking.
Ban it, even at demos.

..but that's not going to happen.
Without Uke's leaping or sliding to their doom it really wouldn't be aikido anymore.

ficklampa
05-26-2007, 03:20 PM
what is tanking?

Mary Turner
05-26-2007, 05:34 PM
I would like to have a more diverse group with which to train. I love my white guys, but I would like to see a class more representative of our population.

antonis paps
05-26-2007, 10:49 PM
I would like to have a more diverse group with which to train. I love my white guys, but I would like to see a class more representative of our population.

really? in u.s there are only white guys training aikido?
why is that?

lbb
05-27-2007, 06:12 AM
I'd like it if aikido practitioners would lose this silly notion that all other martial arts are about violent domination and hurting everyone in sight, and that aikido is kind and peaceful and benevolent. It makes for a very passive-aggressive little cabbage patch of a martial art.

dps
05-27-2007, 06:38 AM
If you could make one change in Aikido, what would it be?

The definition of Ki.

David

Lyle Bogin
05-27-2007, 08:03 AM
I'd trim a bit of the need for breakfalls from shihonage.

Martin Ruedas
05-27-2007, 08:14 AM
I think Aikido is fine the ways it is. I think it is us who should make a change for ourselves. Like O'Sensei tells about iron being full of impurities, through forging, it becomes a razor-sharp sword. We too, he said, develop in the same fashion.