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Erik
03-31-2001, 12:26 PM
My first teacher used to take his hakama, roll it up, wrap the ties around it and call it a folded hakama. Occasionally, I would try and fold it for him and it was literally impossible to find the pleats. It was truly a good hakama gone bad. My current teacher is much the same, although, he does make at least make the attempt.

And so some questions.

Who owned the worst hakama you've ever seen and how bad was it?

Who had the most unique hakama? I used to practice in a place that had colored hakama (green, red, etc.) We didn't take them outside the dojo which was probably a good thing.

Lastly, what's the most unique hakama practice you've seen. For example, a jiu jitsu school I once visited wore their belts outside of the hakama.

[Edited by Erik on March 31, 2001 at 11:29am]

lt-rentaroo
03-31-2001, 07:02 PM
Hello,

Hmmm, worst Hakama I've seen. Well, I occasionally visit this other dojo (doesn't matter where or which one really) and there was a student there who I believe was 2nd Kyu. This individual's hakama was about one foot too short (it was just below the knees, which looked very odd) and I'm not kidding here, it had plaid patches sewn over the area where the knees would be. Now my vision is a little color deficient, but I'm pretty sure that the patches were black, green, and yellow plaid. The koshita on this hakama was badly worn, the stitching was unravelling and you could see the plastic insert. On a more positive note, this individual had pretty good technique and was a very nice person. I guess you can't judge an Aikidoka by there hakama :)

Have a good day!

Tharis
05-07-2004, 09:01 PM
I don't know if I can beat the plaid story, but my first hakama was one I found in the closet in the back of the clubroom. It was old, cotton. The seams all looked thoroughly worn. The kicker was that the knees were patched...with duct tape:D.

Needless to say, I have since purchased a bujin hakama of my own and handed down the duct taped (and now patched) hakama to another student.

Yours in ukemi,

Thomas

ian
05-08-2004, 05:50 AM
My dream is that one day I shall wear a Hawian print hakama (which, after all is very relevant for aikido).

P.S. I have a shaped floor tile instead of a plastic koshita since the plastic bit broke very early on.

David Kerr
05-08-2004, 06:03 AM
A friend of mine attended a course somwhere in england where the sensei leading the course walked on the mat with a stars and stripes hakama.

Joanne Arnest
05-08-2004, 09:28 AM
At the seminar here last weekend there was a woman with a green hakama, and another woman with a purple hakama who said that her sensei had a gorgeous Hawaiian print hakama.

Keith Morgan
05-08-2004, 11:59 AM
I attended a seminar in the States last year where one guy wore his hakama,a bright red one at that,back to front for two days.He even wore a red belt over it with black marker pen writing,"Founder of Combo Karate." He gave us visiting Brits a bit of a laugh.

taras
05-10-2004, 10:12 AM
I once saw a 2nd kyu wearing what I would describe as a former hakama. It was so creased it looked like a building site! After the session I found out why - I saw the sensei help the student to fold it, he couldn't do it himself. :eek:

PaulieWalnuts
05-10-2004, 11:44 AM
Its so sad to see people who take longer to get ready before and after keiko than they spend on the mat. Some people are more interested in looking good on the mat rather than training hard. it should take no longer than 5 min to get on a gi hak and obi any longer is pathetic and belongs in some camp clothes boutque. yes its important to keep the folds but learn to do it quickly or if no time WHO CARES . The standard of your hak has nowt to do with your abilty

aikidoc
05-10-2004, 01:13 PM
So much for tradition. Green, red, red white and blue. I saw a student get kicked off the mat for wearing a gray and black striped hakama. The sensei told him he could practice if he took off the hakama but the only acceptable ones were solid black or blue. I guess I'm somewhat of a traditionalist and expect a hakama to be one color blue or black and reasonably clean and pressed. I realize it does not affect one's technique. Learning to fold a hakama to maintain it's pleats is not that big a deal and should only take couple of minutes. I used to hate doing it until I learned how to properly (I'd just hang mine). My instructor made me learn to fold it. Now it's no big deal.

Tharis
05-10-2004, 02:32 PM
I agree fervently that hakama should be kept clean and pressed. I've found that spending a few extra minutes creasing the pleats helps them stay together in the long run. It took me at least a few months to figure it out on a used one before I bought my own, but the learning becomes part of the ritual of training. Some compare it to a Zen exercise.

That said, since when is wearing a navy or black hakama part of "tradition?"

Just wondering...

Thomas

Magma
05-10-2004, 02:59 PM
steff -

"Who cares?"? The standard to which one holds oneself with regard to respecting one's training gear is indicative of one's standard of training on the mats, IMO. So what if they take longer preparing and leaving the floor than they do actually training? If they train for two hours and spend two more preparing before they take the mat, who are you to tell them to hurry?

I can see the value in doing something quickly, especially for days when you *have* to do it quickly for whatever reason (late for class or the seminar for example). But what about breathing or meditation exercises? Should those be rushed, too? Maybe dressing is more than simply dressing for these people; perhaps it is as much a ritual for preparing their mind as their training on the mats prepares their body.

There *are* ways to make this sort of mindful-attentiveness apply to and help with one's physical aikido practice, if one is willing to slow down and appreciate the metaphor.

See the "I have a funny question" thread if you want more discussion of this. A couple of us have tried to defend this sort of thinking there for some time.

Lan Powers
05-10-2004, 10:47 PM
I would have LOVED to have seen the back to front example! (you made me snort soda on my keyboard!)lol
Lan

PeaceHeather
05-11-2004, 04:08 PM
Hawaiian print hakama. Wow. I think I have a new goal to shoot for -- one of my "reasons aikido is cool" before I actually started looking seriously into it, was that you got to wear a hakama.

Maybe I can get a nice deep green one; no stripes or anything, just green instead of blue. The color has symbolic importance to me, just as I suspect the traditional blue and black ones do. Ya think?

Heather

Largo
05-11-2004, 10:01 PM
Hakama can actually be any color. I had a few friends that wore purple ones for the coming of age day (seijin shiki) ceremony.

Orihime
05-12-2004, 05:34 AM
My hakama is navy blue and in one of my dojos there are only black ones (in the other one black ones and blue ones). People really don't have any imagination :) ! This said, if the question is: what's the worst hakama you've ever seen? I would reply: probably mine own. Nobody at the time was able to explain me how to fold it right (because only one or two guys really knew and they weren't there), so I did the best I could... which is not much. So it never looks neat and all. This said, it allows me to spend less time folding my hakama while other people remove the tatami ;).

boni tongson
05-12-2004, 09:59 PM
well, i encountered a 16 pleat hakama during one of my visits in our capital city and the second my sensei brought me to one of his friends dojo where i saw a lady wearing a white hakama. i dunno but i really think she was lovely with her white hakama. we were battling who would be doing uke for her. :)

oh, by the way, my hakama is black and my dogi is white. just simple thats all :)

Robert Jackson
05-12-2004, 11:40 PM
My hakama has to be the worse I've ever seen..... It sits in my closet and collects dust!... I hate wearing the freaken thing :)

PeterR
05-13-2004, 12:04 AM
My hakama has to be the worse I've ever seen..... It sits in my closet and collects dust!... I hate wearing the freaken thing :)
Same same. But mines tetron - dusty but no wrinkles. :D

David Edwards
05-14-2004, 09:49 AM
People in our dojo (indeed, ppl in our organization) wear black or blue hakama. That said, there's a guy in our dojo with a purple hakama. He ordered it by mail order, and it came the wrong colour, and he never bothered to change it. I don't have a hakama myself yet, being a kyu-grade male. I fold my sensei's though, and do it very carefully, making sure that every pleat is perfect. As far as I can tell, everybody from my own Sensei, to Kanetsuka Sensei (head of BAF), to O Sensei, and various martial artists who were writers of times past such as Miyamoto Musashi and Yamamoto Tsunetomo, say that one should always pay great attention to the small details of such matters.

PeterR
05-16-2004, 01:46 AM
Yes but the rub is in which details.

dan guthrie
05-16-2004, 10:53 AM
[What about something like this? (http://www.scotyard.com/shopping/browse.php?cat=251)

Marshall Sandoz
05-16-2004, 02:50 PM
Well, if my wife ever figure out how to operate a sewing machine, I can see a purple and gold tigerstripe hakama with the LSU Tiger logo in my future.

Jeanne Shepard
05-16-2004, 04:44 PM
I'm sure Janet Rosen could make you one, for the right price.

Jeanne :D

j0nharris
05-17-2004, 12:16 PM
When my wife and I married, we had two white denim hakamas custom made for the ceremony -- with the idea that later we could dye them black and wear them at the dojo.
The instructions on the dye were to dry it afterwards, and I absolutely had forgotten that the heavy denim was not pre-shrunk. And the dye didn't take very well either.
So now I have a grey hakama that comes a little past my knees!
I also have a very short pair of gi pants that are very worn... . Occasionally, I pull them both out and look like a little hobo samurai :D

Chuck.Gordon
05-20-2004, 05:52 AM
My dream is that one day I shall wear a Hawian print hakama .

Umm, My wife Emily HAS a Hawaiian print hakama. It's rather fetching.

As for hakama of various colors, that's pretty traditional, really. The uniformity thing is fairly new.

Watch any budo embu in Japan and you'll see pinstriped haks, green, blue, brown, white ...

White dogi and dark hak as a combination is rather modern and not very traditional a'tall.

Chuck

Robyn Johnson
05-20-2004, 11:08 AM
Wow! The only hakama colors in Aikido that I have ever heard of was black or navy blue! Purple, Green, red-white-&blue, and Hawaiian Print!!! :hypno: I can't imagine what it must look like! If anybody has a picture of these hakamas (especially the Hawaiian one) or has a link to some pictures, I'd be very interested in seeing them. :) Thanks!

Robyn :)

Bronson
05-20-2004, 12:56 PM
Does this count?

Bronson

Orihime
05-21-2004, 04:09 AM
Wow, I want the same one!!!!!!! :):D

Daniel-san
05-21-2004, 06:59 AM
So in my Aikido class, there is an elderly japanese woman who is 2nd Kyu but trained in Japan many many years ago. She stands at around 4'4 and her hakama is so incredibly tiny It would fit my 4 year old nephew. It's just so funny to see. It was custom made by her to suit her rather small stature.
*snickers*

arachnoJill
06-05-2004, 09:31 PM
I can't stop laughing at the image of a "little hobo samurai."

Melissa Fischer
07-10-2004, 04:12 PM
How 'bout the good hakama worn bad? I guess this is the comedy central of hakama stories so... My Sensei asked me to wear a hakama (I was 1st kyu, not eligible for hakama at our dojo) to teach outside the dojo at a neighborhood school. The first day, he showed me how to wraptietuckwraptiewraptuckwraptietuck the thing, got me dressed and sent me out lookin' good. The next week, he wasn't there to help me. I stepped in, did the whole tiewrapwraptietuckwrap thing as I was calling out test prep requirements for a kid. I finished up as we got to forward rolls, which she muffed. "No," I said "like this.." where upon I did this mermaid style roll, my legs being joined together in one side of the hakama. Should my Sensei have mentioned that you put one foot in each side? How was I to know? I then very gracefully wiggled to my feet and hopped off to get re-situated while the other teacher covered for me. I can't be the only person ever to have done that, right? Probly most people make the same mistake, right? Well, now I know!

Devin McDowell
07-15-2004, 07:44 PM
Melissa, that is one of the funniest MA stories I have ever read.

John Boswell
07-20-2004, 11:37 AM
Melissa, I gotta ask:

How did you even make it to the MAT??? :D

I'll admit to the "both legs in one side" thing, but there was no ability to walk! /snicker

Melissa Fischer
08-05-2004, 02:15 AM
Well, making it onto the mat carrying the hakama was easy, getting off was less graceful.

My other funny hakama story involves me taking my 2nd kyu test. Sensei switched Uke's, then asked for sankyo from shomenuchi and I did aiyumioshi then an Iwama style shoulder to Uke's shoulder grip change. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed that the new guy had no pants on under his hakama, just the "tighty whities". When testing, one must be prepared for the unexpected. I didn't laugh, I didn't lose my cool. I may have pinned that sankyo a bit harder than usual is all. The next thing my Sensei called for was, of course yet another uke.
( Found out later that he had cut old gi pants off into shorts which then did the bunch up thing, so it wasn't what it looked like. I'm always going to wear long pants, oh, and put one leg in each side too!)

Michael Cardwell
08-05-2004, 03:51 AM
One of the guys in my dojo will sometimes threaten to start wearing rainbow colored hakama pants to class to distract and unnerve uke's so he can do techniques better. I can only hope that he never follows through with his threat.

JJF
08-05-2004, 08:01 AM
I've said it before, but one day I'm gonna make myself a hakama with Bob the builde fabric... my kids would just LOVE that :o)

Robert Cheshire
08-08-2004, 12:42 AM
One of our kyu ranked females says she wants to get her shodan so she can wear Strawberry Shortcake Hakama.

amberlee
08-08-2004, 12:47 AM
I would love to have a curious george hakama ;)

Emily Fine
09-28-2004, 10:27 PM
Life will be good for me when I see a striped or polka dot hakama, the two colours of which clashing terribly. THAT would be awesome.

~Emily

billybob
10-12-2004, 11:42 AM
good stuff y'all.

this redneck ex-judoka feels like he's wearing a stankin' skirt every time he puts it on. i love aikido and wish to show respect, so i put the (&&(*ing thing on, and keep it clean, and tie a pretty knot in it.
i can't make myself fold it after class though - cuz i keep it hung up on my back porch (to blow the stank off'n it). some day they'll make me fold it.

worst or funniest i ever saw was actually one sensei wearing day-glo green tiger striped lycra cycling shorts underneath. you could only see them occasionally and you weren't sure you could trust your eyes. when asked, sensei said this was 'advanced atemi'. smart-ass!

billybob

roninja
11-19-2004, 12:06 PM
Its so sad to see people who take longer to get ready before and after keiko than they spend on the mat. Some people are more interested in looking good on the mat rather than training hard. it should take no longer than 5 min to get on a gi hak and obi any longer is pathetic and belongs in some camp clothes boutque. yes its important to keep the folds but learn to do it quickly or if no time WHO CARES . The standard of your hak has nowt to do with your abilty

pathetic? I don't wear hakama for Aikido training because I am not a Shodan, but I am a Buddhist and have found the occasion (whilst practicing Japanese Zen) where I would be wearing Hakama and Kimono, and the Hakama Alone take, on my fastest day, three minutes to put on. Is that Pathetic? I was never late for class, and having taken the time to put my Hakama on properly and mindfully, I was not in a rushed state of mind to enter the Zendo.

As for my dogi, Changing and and folding takes me at least three minutes. Now add a hakama in there and it's going to take a little bit longer.

and then there's the subject of self reflection for creating standards. Just because you can, and prefer to, rush into and out of your dogi does not make others "pathetic" for not doing such.

Where do you get off with such arrogance? You may have some rank in Aikido, fine, but I doubt you are THE authority on proper Dogi proceedures.

and having experienced the bits of japanese culture, that I have, and my spent time in Buddhism, I know that they are not rushed cultures. More time can be spent on the "formailites" than the actual practices themselves, because the formalities are part of the practices.

There is a famous saying "Cha'an (Zen) is not just sitting with your legs crossed, it is eating, sleeping, putting on oyur shoes, your shirt..." So as you can see, from this quote, preparation of dogi and the way you tend to it afterwards are also part of your training.

Also, it has been my experience that people who decide not to take the time to "look nice on the mat" do not train as hard either. I'm not SuperAikidoka, but I take the time to do it right and that gives me a sense of formality in practice.

Of coruse as one does somethign longer and longer they will get better and quicker at it, but for the beginner, like myself, preparations can take up into the ten minutes, and that's just fine. I've never been griped at for trying to learn how to do it right.

I can now fold my robes, after chanting and meditation, rather quickly, but when I first started it took me about six minutes, and it's only one article of clothing that you fold four times. there are people who can do it in 30 seconds.

Now I know I've probably gone rendundant with my stuff, but I don't know, such derogitory statements as "pathetic and belongs in some camp clothes boutque" really make me mad.

Anyway, I must go practice non aggrevation now
Amitofo

roninja
11-19-2004, 12:12 PM
haha, rainbow striped hakama to throw off uke, I liek that. This must be the reason for all the other crazy designs. The worst pair hakama I've ever seen were some I wore for a kendo demo. My Sensei Loaned them to me so that I wouldn't be wearing a judo uniform and carrying a shinai. and all that was wrong with them was that they had a mall rip in the right knee. Anyway, I'm off. Thank for the laughs
Amitofo

shift99
11-19-2004, 01:09 PM
Ran across this the other day on the aikido faq (http://www.aikidofaq.com/misc/hakama.html)

"Shigenobu Okumura Sensei, "Aikido Today Magazine" #41

"When I was uchi deshi to O Sensei, everyone was required to wear a hakama for practice, beginning with the first time they stepped on the mat. There were no restrictions on the type of hakama you could wear then, so the dojo was a very colorful place. One saw hakama of all sorts, all colors and all qualities, from kendo hakama, to the striped hakama used in Japanese dance, to the costly silk hakama called sendai-hira. I imagine that some beginning student caught the devil for borrowing his grandfather's expensive hakama, meant to be worn only for special occasions and ceremonies, and wearing out its knees in suwariwaza practice. ... "

So I wonder how it came down to just blue or black? :)

bryce_montgomery
12-14-2004, 04:03 PM
I personally purchased a hakama from an online store and I accidentally ordered the wrong size...so now I'm the proud owner on a Japanese miniskirt! :blush: ...Yeah, everyone has told me I should send it back but I'm too lazy to go to some post office.

Bryce

Rocky Izumi
12-14-2004, 04:25 PM
I personally purchased a hakama from an online store and I accidentally ordered the wrong size...so now I'm the proud owner on a Japanese miniskirt! :blush: ...Yeah, everyone has told me I should send it back but I'm too lazy to go to some post office.

Bryce
Bryce, you should be able to sell it to some young kendo student since they must wear hakama too.

Rock

kironin
12-14-2004, 05:05 PM
Life will be good for me when I see a striped or polka dot hakama, the two colours of which clashing terribly. THAT would be awesome.
~Emily


Well here is a nice striped hakama!

http://bugei.com/product_606_detailed.htm


still pretty conservative though. only one type, though I seem to remember in their print catalogue that they had several styles of striped hakamas.

:ki:

Rocky Izumi
12-14-2004, 10:46 PM
Does this count?

Bronson

Nice butt! Like the hakama too.

Rock

Bronson
12-15-2004, 02:19 AM
Nice butt! Like the hakama too.


If only they were mine :D

Bronson

The Molinjir
12-26-2004, 10:35 AM
I once met a 2nd kyu who had accidentally bleached his hakama...

Alvin H. Nagasawa
12-30-2004, 09:32 PM
Re: Good Hakama Gone Bad

My personnel observation:

Osawa Sensei wore a White Hakama, So did Osensei. Other Aikido Styles have, Red ,Purple, Green and so on.

John Stevens wore a Hawaiian Printed Hakama, I guess it's up to the individual as they hold there seminars. Outside of Japan, it may have been a gift from a individual dojo.

As for a ranking Aiki Kai Instructor from Hombu Dojo. it may be a stage in there career that they wish to separate there appearance from Black, Blue( Heavy cotton),Gray, White. I assume you have to have permission to wear different colored Hakama?. Or it maybe a Dojo requirement for the student.Or when, White represents a spiritual representation of a high ranking Instructor.

As for a kyu wearing a Hakama?, It's up to the individual Organization or Dojo.

A high Quality or Cheap Hakama, no matter what its the cost to the individual, is supposed to be folded properly after its use. And wash it once a year. I have visited dojos, when you don't have time to fold your Hakama. Put it on a hanger and fold it at home. And if you don't know how to fold it, Ask your Sempai for assistance. It is your training to fold it properly in a timely manner. You will be called to fold the visiting instructors Hakama or if you ask a instructor to fold his Hakama. You are judge by the instructor on how you fold and present the Hakama back to the teacher.
Take it as a privilege to fold the teachers Hakama. The Hakama is a spiritual representation of it's owner. It has the Ki and spirit of the individual. When your Hakama gets torn and unusable, Burn it along with your old Gi's. Don't just discard them in the trash. When your burn it in a fire all your perspiration,body oil, will explode into a blue flame.

I noticed all Hombu Dojo instructors have expensive Hakama and Gi's. It's like a businessman's suit, I notice it because I can feel & see the quality of the material.

I hope my over view on the subject. Well have some influence on your individual appearance and proper respect of your equipment used in training.

Tim Gerrard
01-06-2005, 11:00 AM
Definatly thinkin about getting a tiger print lining when I get mine...

emi_moes
01-17-2005, 03:19 PM
Well, if my wife ever figure out how to operate a sewing machine, I can see a purple and gold tigerstripe hakama with the LSU Tiger logo in my future.

perhaps you should figure out how to operate a sewing machine, you putting the time into it will mean more & when someone asks where did you get you hakama from you can say the fabric store but I put it together myself, just a thought but you shouldn't leave it up to your wife to make it. you want something done, do it yourself!

Niamh Marie O'Leary-Liu
01-26-2005, 08:02 AM
Our mats are stored up against a wall next to an emergency exit. Once in a while, some little spider or something will squeeze itself under the door and hide in a stack of mats. So the other day, as the instructor was helping to set the mats out for class, a teeny tiny lizard startled him by jumping off the mat, right onto his hakama. The instructor did an abbreviated version of the Macarena dance trying to shake it off, but he couldn't tell if the little critter scrambled somewhere further into the folds of his hakama or if it jumped off in the commotion and high-tailed it out of the area. Naturally, I couldn't resist asking him, "Is that a lizard in your hakama or..."

mriehle
01-26-2005, 05:31 PM
How 'bout the good hakama worn bad? I guess this is the comedy central of hakama stories so... My Sensei asked me to wear a hakama (I was 1st kyu, not eligible for hakama at our dojo) to teach outside the dojo at a neighborhood school. The first day, he showed me how to wraptietuckwraptiewraptuckwraptietuck the thing, got me dressed and sent me out lookin' good. The next week, he wasn't there to help me.

I think I have just the thing for you:

The Velcro Hakama (http://www.newschoolaikido.com/hakama.php)

Many of the dan rank students and New School Aikido wear them. I personally plan to get one for myself Real Soon Now.

I got a traditional hakama when I got my shodan.

I've come to believe that was a mistake. :D

mriehle
01-26-2005, 05:46 PM
So, I'm told that the black and blue thing is just an attempt to set standards. A "uniform" in the strictest sense. Makes sense to me.

But I like the standard set in New School Aikido:

Shodan: The hakama must be black.

Nidan and higher: If you are an instructor, you may wear navy blue, otherwise, black.

Sandan and higher: If you are dojocho, all bets are off, any color you want, be creative (it's actually encouraged). Otherwise, see the rules for Nidan.

So, officially I'm a dojocho, though I don't actually conform to the rules in a lot of other ways. Strictly speaking I can't be *really* recognized as dojocho until I get my sandan.

After reading this thread, I have lots of great ideas for my new hakama when I get my sandan. I like the hawaiian print (I spent most of my childhood in Hawaii and started my training there). But, I think, I'm going to see about getting a photographic print done. Something with Zatoichi (Shintaro Katsu) on it. Or maybe Luke Skywalker.

Oh! Oh! Oh! One leg Zatoichi, the other Luke Skywalker! Perfect! ;)

...Maybe I should have The Powerpuff girls on it somewhere as well...

Meggy Gurova
02-13-2005, 04:39 PM
The strangest hakama I've ever seen were one made off jeans and the other one was made by two different hakama in one (the hole koshita that was taken from another hakama).

Rachel Strickman
03-28-2005, 05:50 PM
Re: why are they always black? I heard it is because they were made out of blackout curtains. There is a person at my dojo who has tie-dyed hakama, pink and white. Personally I think making ones own clothing can be a way to show sincerity, respect, and dedication, as well as being much cheaper and a perfect way to distract oneself from one's :) dissertation.

Bronson
03-30-2005, 10:07 PM
Whoa, check these out.

Bronson

PeterR
03-30-2005, 10:24 PM
Nice - very chic.

Melissa Fischer
04-11-2005, 11:55 PM
Hi Michael,
There wasn't a pic of the famous velcro hak which claims to put an end to that diaper butt look. How does it work?
Nice photo gallery, BTW. Here's ours:
www.standingwaiting.com

Melissa

mriehle
04-12-2005, 03:20 AM
Honestly, I've never gotten the "diaper butt" comment in the pitch for the velcro hakama.

But, what I like about it is that it's designed so the waistband is at least as adjustable as the traditional hakama, but it doesn't rely on your belt to stay up while you're putting it on. You don't need to wear a belt while wearing this hakama.

The other thing I like is that once you have it adjusted to your liking, you can take it off just by opening one side in front, so the next time you put it on you just slide it and close up that side. Really fast.

But I insisted on getting a traditional hakama when I got my shodan because, well, it's TRADITION, darn it. :p

I'm saving my pennies to abandon tradition now. :D :cool:

Chuck.Gordon
04-12-2005, 05:42 AM
Velcro hak: How does it stand up to weapons work, i.e., wearing saya?

cg

mriehle
04-13-2005, 01:48 AM
When you say "stand up" do you mean staying on, or wearing out?

As far as staying on, I'd say it might do better than the traditional hakama. But I'd also say that was a function of adjusting it correctly.

The one time I wore one it was borrowed (I'd forgotten mine at home and it was a promotion for some of my students) and I couldn't (or at least felt it was inappropriate to) adjust it completely. Even so, it stayed put just fine. A couple of tweaks to the adjustment and there would have been no problem.

As far as wearing out I'd have to say that fabric is fabric. I've seen velcro hakamas made out of heavy fabric and light fabric. The heavy fabric holds up better, but it seems like it would be hot.

The design for the fastening system is actually patented. It is fairly clever, I think. It's designed so that you can't just pull and get the velcro to fail. I think, in fact, the fabric might fail before the velcro would. Disclaimer: the patent holder is a friend of mine so my opinion may be a little biased.

So, actually, the answer is really, "I don't know", but my opinion is that it would do as well as a traditional hakama, maybe better.

Chuck.Gordon
04-14-2005, 06:09 AM
I'd be looking more at how well the velcro himo support the saya and keep it stable, how it feels during sayabiki ...

thx,

cg

Melissa Fischer
04-17-2005, 03:22 PM
Isn't velcro too easy for this Japanese art form? I thought we like to do things the hard way so we can practice in the "chop wood carry water" journey to enlightenment. Why else would we fold the hakama so elaborately? Or wear it at all? These are really just hypothetical questions. As O'Sensei said, Budo/MA must evolve. How to keep to tradition and evolve at the same time is quite the trick.

Melissa

Jeanne Shepard
04-17-2005, 07:18 PM
Back in the Dawn of Time of my Ballet Days we were told to darn to tips of our pointe (toe) shoes so they wouldn't slip or wear out too fast. By the time I was really into it we just soaked them in liqued floor wax (the plastic kind, preferably not with amonia :crazy: ) to harden them. It was faster and easier, but not as decorative.

But we had more time to practice, (or sleep).

Jeanne

RebeccaM
04-17-2005, 11:20 PM
I used to know someone who never washed his hakama. Eek!

The worst I ever did to mine was wear a hole in it, but that's been patched up with matching fabric. One day, if I'm feeling really rich and really gutsy, I'll get a white cotton hakama and tie-dye it.

mriehle
04-19-2005, 06:35 AM
I'd be looking more at how well the velcro himo support the saya and keep it stable, how it feels during sayabiki ...

thx,

cg

Right. Well.. NOw you've completely lost me. I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with your terminology. And my Japanese is - well - weak. So I'm not sure what you're getting at.

THe only thing my hakana (a traditional one) supports is itself. Is there something else it should be supporting? Or are you talking about an additional piece of equipment used in weapons work that I'm unfamiliar with?

Chuck.Gordon
04-19-2005, 08:06 AM
Or are you talking about an additional piece of equipment used in weapons work that I'm unfamiliar with?

Heh! Sorry. Yeah, the scabbard of the sword is 'saya' and in doing batto or iaido, the left hand manipulates the saya during the draw and the return while the right hand wields the weapon. This is saya-biki.

One of the advantages of wearing a hakama for sword work is that, tied properly, the himo and obi together hold the saya securely and provide extra support for the weight of the sword itself.

Chuck

mriehle
04-19-2005, 03:27 PM
Ah, got it. There is a strap that comes from back to front on the velcro hakama that attaches in the front and then is secured in place by another flap. The strap is also how things are adjusted.

I'd think that if the strap would fit through whatever opening there is in the saya, it would work at least as well as the ties on the traditional hakama. As far as supporting the weight, I think it might work better. If there is a need for it to hold things in place during the draw it might have an issue if there isn't enough of the strap in place in front, so you might have to adjust it a bit lopsided.

Even then, though, I shouldn't think so. I couldn't swear to it, though.

I guess I'd go ahead and wear the belt with the hakama in a case like that. You don't really need one with the velcro hakama, but with the kind of thing you're talking about I'd consider it insurance.

Jane Woodcock
04-24-2005, 04:14 PM
The worst hakama I ever saw was one that a dan grade wore at my old club. The hakama was black but it seemed to have a little bit of green penicillin growing on the back. I later found out in the 5 years he'd had it, he'd never washed it. And he wondered why no-one wanted to practice with him

Jeanne Shepard
04-24-2005, 08:58 PM
By the way, just how DO you wash a hakama?

Jeanne

Chuck.Gordon
04-25-2005, 04:19 AM
By the way, just how DO you wash a hakama?

Depends. My tetron one, just throw in the wash (normal cycle), hang to dry, fold. Cotton, throw in wash (cold), hang to dry, iron before it's fully dry, then fold.


cg

makuchg
04-25-2005, 06:23 AM
I've got an indigo dyed 100% cotton hakama from Kyoto, hand wash only and hang dry or I'd have to let my 12 year old son wear it.

As for colors, it was my understanding that O'Sensei allowed any color since everyone wore hakama in his dojo and many couldn't afford to commercially purchase them so they made them out of old curtains or other spare material.

Jeanne Shepard
04-25-2005, 08:20 AM
Depends. My tetron one, just throw in the wash (normal cycle), hang to dry, fold. Cotton, throw in wash (cold), hang to dry, iron before it's fully dry, then fold.


cg

Where do I get a tetron one? (If this is the fabric I'm thinking of, its very lightweight, right?)

Jeanne

Chuck.Gordon
04-25-2005, 08:56 AM
Where do I get a tetron one? (If this is the fabric I'm thinking of, its very lightweight, right?)

Yep, fairly lightweight, very tough, always looks spiffy. I got mine (Meirin brand) from Peter Boylan's Mugendo Budogu (www.budogu.com).

cg

Bronson
04-25-2005, 03:03 PM
I got mine from E-bogu (http://www.e-bogu.com/Top_Quality_Black_Tetron_Hakama_Size_All_p/tak-ken-hak-tqtet-black-all.htm).

Bronson

Jeanne Shepard
04-27-2005, 07:53 PM
By the way, Chuck,

Are you the guy on the Antarctica Aikikai website who looks like a walrus?

(Or, ARE you a walrus?)

Not sure of the url but there is a link from < www.tantobeak.com >

Jeanne :p

Jeanne Shepard
04-28-2005, 12:30 AM
I got mine from E-bogu (http://www.e-bogu.com/Top_Quality_Black_Tetron_Hakama_Size_All_p/tak-ken-hak-tqtet-black-all.htm).

Bronson

Are you supposed to leave those white stitches in ?

Jeanne

Chuck.Gordon
04-28-2005, 04:23 AM
By the way, Chuck,
Are you the guy on the Antarctica Aikikai website who looks like a walrus?
(Or, ARE you a walrus?)


Umm. Yeah. That's Me. Koo koo ka choo.

Thanks goodness Jim Baker hasn't had MORE time on his hands.

Chuck

BTW, take the white threads out of your hak before wearing it ...

Nick P.
04-28-2005, 02:17 PM
BTW, take the white threads out of your hak before wearing it ...

Awww, you missed your chance to pull a fast one! Dang!

Jeanne Shepard
04-28-2005, 08:50 PM
I thought they were sort of pretty...

Jeanne

aikidojones
04-29-2005, 09:13 PM
I'm just killing time waiting to go to work but I can't help but chime in on this one. While I've certainly seen my share of ridiculous hakama (and other uniform bits), I think it's important to remember not to take any of this too seriously. The tradition of hakama is this; they're pants. True, they're traditional Japanese pants. But over the few hundred years they've been around there have been many styles, fabric patterns, and colors. Traditional samurai attire was simply a kimono and hakama, with the appropriate outer garments for the circumstances. It's like our standard business suit. The keiko gi was an adaptation to facilitate training. They just kept the pants because they felt, well, naked without 'em! Personally, my gi is white and my hakama are black, but only because I'm boring. I always thought the black and white striped ones look kind of vibrant and the white ones seem very refined (though I don't think I'd where white because I've seen so much footage of O'sensei in white and it would feel arrogant).

Anyway, they're just pants... Much love.
-Brian

Ibaraki Bryan
05-01-2005, 08:58 PM
White hakama, in Japan nowadays, are generally for girls, in kendo... never seen white hakama in an aikido dojo in Japan. . . or anywhere except for O'Sensei films. I've seen John Stevens Sensei at seminars with a tie dyed hakama... definitely makes him stand out. :)

Jeremy Young
05-02-2005, 11:35 AM
just thought to comment something...
I remember i was reading an interview somewhere of one of O'sensei students (maybe the one someone posted earlier) and they said that O'sensei required everyone to wear hakama and that (if i remember the interview correctly) they did dye them solid colors but as many people were poor they would get the fabric where they could...curtains, fabric from furniture, etc. and that with time the dye would fade and the original color and design of the fabric would show through! So that the dojo was filled with hakamas of many different colors and designs. I dont think they purposely made them different colors and designs, though. Maybe someone else will have seen that or knows more about it, but that is what i recall from the interview.
Jeremy Young
Tatsumaki Dojo
Springdale, AR

makuchg
05-02-2005, 02:17 PM
Jeremy,

That is how I heard the story also.

Melissa Fischer
05-02-2005, 11:43 PM
Here's the Japanese translation of hakama as I read it last week
"horse riding thing you step into with two legs"

FYI, I got my tetron hak from http://aikido.tozando.com/

Actually, my Sensei sold me an old one of his but it was from Tozando. Others in the dojo have them too and they are great; nice and flowing, easy upkeep and long lasting. Doesn't have the razor sharp pleats anymore. Do any of them keep those pleats? Does anyone care?

Melissa
www.tenzanaikido.com

RebeccaM
05-07-2005, 11:15 PM
By the way, just how DO you wash a hakama?

Jeanne
I have a navy blue cotton hakama from Bujin. I wash mine in cold water on the gentle cycle and line-dry it. Machine drying will kill your pleats, as my dad discovered...

the slayer
05-22-2005, 03:53 PM
are dojo has either black or purple you can wear any of these 2 colours if yr graded i have a navy one and a dark purple one purple is my favourite colour so i wear that one mostly i saw a dan grade with his hakama split on the side so when he moved you could see the white pants of his keikogi which apparantly you are not supposed to show of yr white pants underneath yr hakama mines probably the second worst hakama i have seen creased cause always in rush to get out of training will iron it for tues :-)

samurai_kenshin
05-24-2005, 11:43 AM
I remember that sensei's hakama used to have knees patched with duct tape. We finally bought her a new one, but the old one still comes out every casual friday ;-)

Jill N
05-25-2005, 10:08 PM
Hi all:

Melissa wrote:
>> Doesn't have the razor sharp pleats anymore. Do any of them keep those pleats? Does anyone care?

Carol Shifflet taught me to use water and vinegar and an iron- pleats are permanent if you are ironing anything with synthetics in it- in case anyone cares.

e ya later
Jill.

Jeanne Shepard
05-25-2005, 11:31 PM
I remember that sensei's hakama used to have knees patched with duct tape. We finally bought her a new one, but the old one still comes out every casual friday ;-)

Is that Pat Hendricks Sensei?!

Jeanne

jennifer paige smith
06-10-2007, 09:42 AM
Hawaiian print hakama. Wow. I think I have a new goal to shoot for -- one of my "reasons aikido is cool" before I actually started looking seriously into it, was that you got to wear a hakama.

Maybe I can get a nice deep green one; no stripes or anything, just green instead of blue. The color has symbolic importance to me, just as I suspect the traditional blue and black ones do. Ya think?

Heather

There is 'Ki' ranking in some dojo where a green hakama is awarded when you reach shodan.I believe that practice is alive and well in Hawaii, so maybe you can go full tropical explosion with a green hakama and a hawaiian print keiko gi. FYI.

hopparn
08-17-2007, 07:52 AM
during the "all sweden" seminar 1998 there were a pretty cool hakama presented. The whole idea was to make a funny exhibition. The pattern was cow-like. I have no time to translate the whole article, but there sure is a nice picture on the hakama ;)

http://fy.chalmers.se/~frtae/aikido/jubileum/history/history.html

dragonteeth
08-17-2007, 10:47 AM
LOL Patrick that is a riot! Did he make that himself, or get it somewhere?

hopparn
08-20-2007, 01:25 AM
LOL Patrick that is a riot! Did he make that himself, or get it somewhere?

I actually know the woman who sew it on her sewingmachine. Nowadays she makes "real" hakamas for ordering. She is very talented and she makes quite a few hakamas every year on her sparetime :)

So the Cow hakama was actually pretty well- made ;)

Gernot Hassenpflug
08-20-2007, 04:00 AM
I always used to buy cotton hakama because of their durability. Disadvantage is that the pleats disappear much more easily than with a synthetic fabric hakama, so due care is needed in folding. As part of the care, I also used to have mine dry-cleaned rather than use my washing machine. On my only trip home where I had the thing with me, I gave it, nicely folded, to the dry-cleaning place, and told them I'd like it back the same way LOL Needless to say, on coming to claim it, the lady had this "thing" laid on the counter in a semi-contorted pose, and a desperate look on her face, which turned to a look of wonder as I deftly folded it in front of her eyes. I bet she suspected trickery with all manner of garments after that :-)

Carriness
08-31-2007, 11:44 AM
My dojo has an Aiki-BBQ every so often, so I started making Aiki-aprons for them. I prefer the blue with some kanji, but the cow print pleather one is classic! It looks like a small set of chaps!

My favorite is one that says "kiss the cook" in japanese down the side...

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb219/Carriness/cowaikiapron3.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb219/Carriness/aikiapron2.jpg

Jess McDonald
08-31-2007, 12:15 PM
You know what gets my goat about hakamas...freaken white pants showing from the bottom! Jesus Christ can't someone tell them this just looks stupid...like they got high waters on or some $#@%.

And for those of you that say..."why don't you tell um"..I'm a lowly 4th kyu so I ain't saying nothing to no damn black belt; that should fall on the other dans in the room.

mutter...mutter...for crying out loud... white pants, freaken hakama floods...I can't take this anymore...

Bronson
08-31-2007, 11:42 PM
Jess, I was at one of our style's summer camps and a high ranking instructor was sending people off the mat to fix the visible gi pant problem. Which is why I usually hem mine at about mid-shin ...they often end up looking like THIS (http://www.biologie.de/w/images/c/cb/Jigoro_Kano.png).

Bronson :D

Walter Martindale
09-01-2007, 05:02 PM
Jess, I was at one of our style's summer camps and a high ranking instructor was sending people off the mat to fix the visible gi pant problem. Which is why I usually hem mine at about mid-shin ...they often end up looking like THIS (http://www.biologie.de/w/images/c/cb/Jigoro_Kano.png).

Bronson :D
(Haven't read the rest of the thread at this point)

That's Kano, who was the founder of Judo. That was before the International Judo Federation rewrote the rules about judogi. In the 1970s the rules were changed, because people were having their gi tailored so that nobody could actually grip - the sleeves and pant legs were cut to a minimum length, and were being made so tight to the arm and leg, respectively, that nobody could take a proper grip. The gi pants with which we're familiar are really underwear, and shouldn't show up under the hakama - but most gi that we wear are from judo, with rules dictating "grippable" length and looseness.
Cheers,
W

Joyce Lunas
09-05-2007, 10:40 AM
Well, my sensei wears a traditional black hakama with some yellow cotton sewn ideogramms attached to the right (if memory serves) side of his hip. I think he once told me this is either his name in japanese or somewhat of a distinction from his own jp sensei. Other yudanshas at our dojo wear either black or deep blue hakamas.

To be honest i agree with Tim's opinion concerning the belief "what's the rush?" This IS a zen practice down to the core of it, right? There certainly EXISTS some spirituality in this martial art and i absolutely agree with this. I even spend some serious leisure time of my own reading and contemplating about ideas like this -nor to mention the entire eastern philosophy and points of view ppl have over there, which i totally respect.

Now, some of the experiences some of you had are really amusing and i laughed too, but i have to say that when the time comes i'll be receiving my own hakama i'd love it if it came in purple or forest green! ;-)

But seriously, a person's techniques' efficiency, character or stance towards his/hers "dojo-mates" and the art itself has nothing to do with some garment's colour. However, i stand by tradition and vote for black, only because i wish to show the art the proper respect i hopefully dream it will show me in the long run. What's that they say? "What you give, you take?"

Sorry for the blathering, it really has been a good while since i replied to this forum and my enthusiasm both for the art and the opinions exhibited here still runs high!

A humble 5th kyu,
Love and understanding ppl, that's what's been missing lately...

C u around,
Joyce