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The One
03-28-2001, 09:17 AM
Some people consider Bruce Lee as the greatest martial artist who ever lived...

I have two questions:

1)Does anyone know if he ever looked into or said anything about Aikido?

2)How well do you think you would defend yourself Aikido-wise against an attack from Bruce Lee? What techniques would you think would be most effective as someone with amazing speed, power, and footwork(which gives him almost constant balance)?

jxa127
03-28-2001, 10:20 AM
You asked:

Does anyone know if he ever looked into or said anything about Aikido?


He is reputed to have made some comment about Aikido being the perfect martial art (or maybe he said it was too perfect) after watching O Sensei do some stuff. I'm sure somebody on this board would be able to tell the story better and even tell us whether it's true or not.


How well do you think you would defend yourself Aikido-wise against an attack from Bruce Lee?


I can honestly say that I've reached the point in my training where a dead guy will not give me any trouble. :-)


What techniques would you think would be most effective against someone with amazing speed, power, and footwork (which gives him almost constant balance)?


Oh, you meant how would I do against him if he were still alive and in good shape. That's easy, he'd kick my butt. :-)

This is just speculation, but it's fun to think about. I'd stay away from techniques like kotageishi and shihonage because I don't think I'd be able to get a handle on Bruce's hands/wrists. That also leaves out ikkyo, nikkyo, etc. Instead, I'd go with kokyo and irimi movements.

-Drew A.

Matt Banks
03-28-2001, 11:11 AM
I have a book by Bruce Lee, and in the book he commented on the flow of aikido, he said it was a good thing.

I reckon I could take out Bruce Lee if he had to close one eye and put one hand behind his back (ha ha).

I think with a guy who has lots of speed, the things you need to use are irimi and/or kokyu tecniques.

Taking on Bruce Lee would be a difficult task, I would laugh at anyone who said that they could take him out, when he was alive.




Matt Banks

Arunabha Sengupta
03-28-2001, 10:59 PM
Whether Bruce was the greatest Martial Artist or not is debatable, but he was a true Martial Arts genius.
I remember reading about Aikido somewhere in his Tao of Jeet Kune Do or some other of his books that I possess.
He was always open to ideas and the underlying philosophy of Jeet Kune Do was to liberate yourself from fixed styles and absorb what is useful from every Martial Art and Philosophy. So, if he had had an exposure to Aikido, I don't have any doubt that he would have incorporated it in his system.
As for using techniques against him, I don't think I would ever be able to do so. However, visualizing an attacker as fast as him, I can think of only irimi nage as something I'll be comfortable with.However, on my good day, kotegaeshi
might just work, as it happens to be my favourite and seems to work effectively against punches.
But, why fight him? There are lot of things to learn from him and that would be the right attitude when facing Bruce Lee.

andrew
03-29-2001, 05:14 AM
Matt Banks wrote:
[B
Taking on Bruce Lee would be a difficult task, I would laugh at anyone who said that they could take him out, when he was alive.
[/B]

Chuck Norris deated him in a competition once, though.

It'd be interesting if he was still alive.... He'd probably be the toughest arthritis sufferer around after years of his insane training regime.

andrew

ze'ev erlich
03-29-2001, 07:37 AM
[QUOTE]The One wrote:
[B]Some people consider Bruce Lee as the greatest martial artist who ever lived...

comon

He was a movie star !!!
don't forget !

Just like Tarazan and The Jedy...

Yes, he was well trained and very flexible but he was far from the tytle 'greatest m artist'.

The One
03-29-2001, 09:09 AM
Um, I suggest you do a little more research on Mr. Lee before you classify him as simply a "movie star" and put him in the same category as "Tarzan"!?!

mj
03-29-2001, 11:11 AM
:) ...OK What about Lee against Tyson or Ali? (I mean this in an enlightened, curious way of course, not aggressively ;))

lt-rentaroo
03-29-2001, 11:49 AM
Hello,

Ok, I'll humor this question a bit. Hmmm, Mr. Lee did incorporate some boxing concepts when he developed Jeet Kun Do. Most notable was the incorportation of traditional boxing footwork. Mr. Lee felt that fixed stances were not the way to go and so adopted boxing's less fixed and more "mobile" (for lack of a better term) footwork.

Powerwise, I'm thinking that Mr. Tyson, if he connected a punch, would probably send Mr. Lee into another dimension. Mr. Ali could most likely do the same. Jeet Kun Do focused on not so much the power (although Jeet Kun Do strikes are powerful) but the speed and timing of the attack. Meaning that Mr. Lee would have to connect multiple punches and / or kicks with either of these gentlemen in order to attain the same effect that one of their punches could achieve.

Of course knowing what the outcome of such an encounter like this would be is just like knowing how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know. Have a good day!

mj
03-29-2001, 12:02 PM
:D Thanks, it-rentaroo, for humouring me...! It is interesting though, eh? Who else would you be interested in seeing fight Bruce? (Puleez no WWF or anything like that...)

mj
03-29-2001, 12:03 PM
Another dimension. !!! I like that...

NYFE Man
03-29-2001, 01:20 PM
mj wrote:
:D Thanks, it-rentaroo, for humouring me...! It is interesting though, eh? Who else would you be interested in seeing fight Bruce? (Puleez no WWF or anything like that...)

STEVEN SEGAL!!!!

**Ducking & Running** :D

mj
03-29-2001, 01:36 PM
OOOH YES! :D

mj
03-29-2001, 01:53 PM
Seriously, Bruce Lee did say something about Aikido after watching it one time. (I don't know about any other comments he may have made, though.)
He said it needed to 'Lose some form.'
I can almost picture what he saw at the time, too.

The One
03-29-2001, 05:03 PM
About Bruce having to hit them with a combo before doing the damage of one punch, and him having not that much power?!? I have 3 words for ya:
1 inch punch...

mj
03-29-2001, 05:06 PM
The One (what?)...
Ypu can do anything with a willing uke...

The One
03-29-2001, 06:29 PM
Mj, are you saying the uke jumped back???

I have no doubt that if Bruce Lee wanted to hit with power he would easily hit harder than Ali or Tyson...

Dan Hover
03-29-2001, 08:08 PM
andrew wrote:


Chuck Norris deated him in a competition once, though.

andrew

When was this??

Niadh
03-29-2001, 09:33 PM
lt-rentaroo wrote:
Hello,
Of course knowing what the outcome of such an encounter like this would be is just like knowing how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know. Have a good day!
Good quote, but you just dated yourself here.
Niadh

Niadh
03-29-2001, 09:40 PM
mj wrote:
:D Who else would you be interested in seeing fight Bruce? (Puleez no WWF or anything like that...)
Rorian Gracie

Arunabha Sengupta
03-29-2001, 10:06 PM
Yes, I agree that with his famous one inch punch, Bruce Lee could punch as hard as Ali or Tyson.
As for sending him to another dimension, both Ali and Tyson would have to move really well to touch him - let alone land a punch on him.
Besides, I don't think boxing is a true Martial Art. It is more of a sport, maybe very effective, but as a Martial Art it is extremely limited. I wonder how a boxer would fare against an open, versatile Martial Artist like Bruce Lee.

As for Chuck Norris defeating Bruce Lee, I have never heard of it. Could someone supply me some source of the information?

[Edited by Arunabha Sengupta on March 29, 2001 at 09:09pm]

jk
03-30-2001, 02:31 AM
Hello folks:

"Judo" Gene LeBell didn't seem to have much of a problem dealing with Bruce Lee... Here's Gene's account:

http://www.genelebell.com/stories.asp#1brucelee

Heh-heh. Love that pink dogi, too...

Regards,
John Kuo

andrew
03-30-2001, 04:04 AM
Arunabha Sengupta wrote:
Yes, I agree that with his famous one inch punch, Bruce Lee could punch as hard as Ali or Tyson.


Having seen the effect of the one inch punch, and having also seen the effect of a heavyweight boxer punching a heavyweight boxer, I have no hesitation in telling you that you're being ridiculous.
I have no doubt Bruce Lee hit very hard, but please have some perspective. Even with a full punch, it'd be extremely surprising if Lee came close to punching as hard as someone like Ali. That kind of farcical statement makes a mockery of his martial arts prowess, because it's actually rooted in his movie star status.

I'll tell you where I got that Chuck Norris story when I remember who told me last year. It's hardly all that surprising, given Norris's competition pedigree. (And larger physical size.)

andrew

crystalwizard
03-30-2001, 05:27 AM
andrew wrote:
I have no doubt Bruce Lee hit very hard, but please have some perspective. Even with a full punch, it'd be extremely surprising if Lee came close to punching as hard as someone like Ali.
andrew [/B]

I'm curious why. I guess I just dont understand why, if one person can do something (ali) another one can't do the same thing.

andrew
03-30-2001, 07:06 AM
crystalwizard wrote:

I'm curious why. I guess I just dont understand why, if one person can do something (ali) another one can't do the same thing.


It's called genetic diversity- everybody is different. Environment plays a large part too.

Seriously, though... I think it's a bit foolish to assume that a "proper" martial artist can automatically punch more efficiently (struggling for a term there) than a boxer. There's an assumption there that boxers are comparitively unskilled at punching. This is silly, and you're not talking about an "ordinary" boxer either. Ali was seriously tough and seriously skilled and seriously heavier than Bruce Lee. He wasn't just a big guy- he knew how to throw a punch.

I'm sure there was more going through your mind than you put there.... I mean, by that rationale why are we learning Aikido when we could go create our own martial art? What's wrong with all those shihan?

andrew

The One
03-30-2001, 09:15 AM
Ok, thanks for your opinions. I know Ali knew how to punch and I'm not making a generalization here that a good martial artist can automatically hit better than pro boxers but I still earnestly beleive that if Bruce Lee gave a full punch he could hit just as hard if not harder than Ali.

And about Bruce and Chuck Norris, and this applies to him and Ali too, how can you beleive size matters? I'm guessing most of us are Aikido here, am I right? And whoever said that Chuck Norris could beat Bruce Lee because of his physical size, I'm assuming you're an Aikido as well. How can you beleive that size matters? They're not even that much different in size but it shouldn't matter anyway.

And just think, if you are a true martial artist then you shouldn't find it hard to beleive that Bruce could beat Ali. Boxers train so limitedly. They train their bodies, mostly their arms. Bruce Lee trained his mind, body, and spirit. I'm pretty sure his Ki(or flowing energy as Bruce called it) was much more powerful than Ali.

Mark Cochran
03-30-2001, 09:35 AM
Burce Lee only a movie star! I agree that he may not have been the greatest MA ever to have lived. However he has contributed to the popularity of martial arts the most. With out him most of the major movie MA stars would simply still be competeing in tournaments or maby not even training at all. About fighting him I don't realy know. His movie persona tends to block the veiw of his reality. There are a number of people who say that Mr Lee was week on his left side, both offensivly, and defensivly. That this fact was something he always strove to improve and that it was conceled in many of his movies. About his fighting the Great Muhamad Ali (Im sorry if I miss spelled his name.) He once said that if he were to ever get into a fight on the street and just use boxing he would get beaten badly. Boxing is after all a sport. So I have to decide a victroy for Bruce Lee in that event.

akiy
03-30-2001, 09:38 AM
The One wrote:
And just think, if you are a true martial artist then you shouldn't find it hard to beleive that Bruce could beat Ali. Boxers train so limitedly. They train their bodies, mostly their arms.
I'm curious -- how long have you trained in boxing?

-- Jun

andrew
03-30-2001, 09:52 AM
The One wrote:
And whoever said that Chuck Norris could beat Bruce Lee because of his physical size,

Obviously not because of his physical size, cos then I'd hammer Bruce Lee too. Chuck Norris is an extremely skilled martial artist. (Five consecutive world karate titles, retired, came out of retirement to win another three, I believe.) In most martial arts size WILL prove to be an advantage when fighters are simularly skilled, though. Why do you think they have weight divisions?

andrew

Erik
03-30-2001, 11:31 AM
The One wrote:
Ok, thanks for your opinions. I know Ali knew how to punch and I'm not making a generalization here that a good martial artist can automatically hit better than pro boxers but I still earnestly beleive that if Bruce Lee gave a full punch he could hit just as hard if not harder than Ali.

My understanding is that Ali wasn't really known as a puncher. I'd suggest that someone like George Foreman, prime or maybe even otherwise, hit harder than Bruce Lee could ever dream of hitting. Mass counts.

And about Bruce and Chuck Norris, and this applies to him and Ali too, how can you beleive size matters? I'm guessing most of us are Aikido here, am I right? And whoever said that Chuck Norris could beat Bruce Lee because of his physical size, I'm assuming you're an Aikido as well. How can you beleive that size matters? They're not even that much different in size but it shouldn't matter anyway.

Size matters a lot. Look at the NHB situation and the Gracies. They lose these days because the big guys have discovered how to grapple. Big good guy vs little good guy. Guess who wins most of the time. Size alone isn't everything but size and skill is a damn potent combination.

And just think, if you are a true martial artist then you shouldn't find it hard to beleive that Bruce could beat Ali. Boxers train so limitedly. They train their bodies, mostly their arms. Bruce Lee trained his mind, body, and spirit. I'm pretty sure his Ki(or flowing energy as Bruce called it) was much more powerful than Ali.

I'm certainly not sure of that. If all that ki/flowing energy stuff was so potent don't you think that someone would have risen through the competitive fighting arts and with the touch of his pinky to the secret ki meridian magically disable all his opponents in a minute or so. Less on his good days. I'm not disputing energy/ki or the value of pressure points, I'm just suggesting that maybe it isn't all that it gets cracked up to be.

lt-rentaroo
03-30-2001, 12:28 PM
Hello,

Niadh, how did I date myself? Because of the statement I made, do I seem young or old? I remember that commercial from the early 1970's. I'm just curious.

Bruce Lee admitted that his "one in punch" demonstration was just that, a choreographed demonstration. So yes, the "uke" made the strike appear more powerful. So the question here is could Mr. Lee punch as hard as Mr. Ali or Mr. Tyson? No, I don't think he could.

Force equals mass times acceleration. Mr. Lee weighed approximately 145 pounds. I'm not sure exactly how much Mr. Ali or Mr. Tyson weigh, but I'm guessing it is somewhere around 215 pounds give or take (probably give). If each person was able to coordinate their movement in such fashion to efficiently make use of their whole body during the punch, Mr. Lee would have to punch much (and I mean a lot) faster than Mr. Tyson or Mr. Ali to achieve the same force.

Mr. Lee had incredible hand and foot speed, but I'm not sure that he was as fast as would be necessary to achieve a more powerful punch. Both Mr. Tyson and Mr. Ali also had very fast hand speeds, so I believe they could indeed punch with more force than Mr. Lee. Gee, all those physics classes in college turned out to be useful after all.

Jim ashby
03-30-2001, 02:01 PM
See, I knew there was a good reason to drink all that beer after a class! It's a good job that our Dojo is in the grounds of a pub. If size does matter I've got the best signature.
Have fun.

bones
03-30-2001, 02:13 PM
lt-rentaroo wrote:

Force equals mass times acceleration. Mr. Lee weighed approximately 145 pounds. I'm not sure exactly how much Mr. Ali or Mr. Tyson weigh, but I'm guessing it is somewhere around 215 pounds give or take (probably give).


Unfortunately for physics, Mr. Lee and Mr. Ali or Mr. Tyson are not spherical ballistic objects, but firmly connected to the ground which they use to generate force. It is my understanding that a typical karate black belt (whatever that means) will generate almost twice the impulse as a typical heavyweight boxer. The trade off being that the ideal karate punch is linear {kotegaeshi anyone?} while boxing punches come from all directions and are difficult to deal with.

-e preston

mj
03-30-2001, 02:29 PM
Why aren't the Karate 'black belts' all world champion boxers, then?
Are you saying that they hit twice as hard as a boxer???
If you are, and I accept you may not be, I can only say I... disagree, strongly. Boxers hit people, hard, all the time, so they have 'real' experience. But anyway, without being disrespectful to anyones point of view, Ali (especially) or Tyson, would destroy Mr Lee.
That's why I picked those names :D
I'd rather watch Ali than Lee
I would rather study under Lee.

Erik
03-30-2001, 03:34 PM
lt-rentaroo wrote:
Hello,

Niadh, how did I date myself? Because of the statement I made, do I seem young or old? I remember that commercial from the early 1970's. I'm just curious.


Ah, the memories.

"conjunction function, what's your junction?"

"and, but and or, will take you pretty far."

And the answer is 3.

That's the problem with the whippersnappers of today. They don't get English lessons with their cartoons. :)

The One
03-30-2001, 05:08 PM
Thank you Mr. Bones...

Ok, mj, are you saying you beleive Ali would beat Lee in a boxing match? In which you restrict more than half of Lee's technique and power? Or in a regular old street fight where anything goes? Because then I'm sure Bruce Lee would win but then again I also think he would win a boxing match so...

But anyway what if all the karate black belts (like me soon...hopefully) don't wanna be champion boxers? Ever thought of that...

mj
03-30-2001, 05:53 PM
Hi The One... I believe Ali would kick Lee's ass anyplace, time or where. Ali is a god, Lee is a legend. Ali fought with broken bones, fought when he was 'old' and had the respect of the world. And deserved it, IMO. Lee never proved himself to the world. Don't get me wrong, that isn't a statement to annoy anyone etc... and it's not to insult anyone either, we all have to 'prove' ourselves I suppose. But Lee wanted fame and fortune, again... not an insult to him because so did Ali. If Lee could have beaten Ali and thought so, well... they were both at their prime at the same time and he didn't. All I'm saying there is it's not for you, me or anyone to speak on his, or Ali's behalf. I was lucky enough to have a private karate teacher when I was young, and I did some boxing when I was older, there are pros and cons with both, agreed? A boxer makes millions if he's good, a karateka makes... what? To be honest karate hasn't stood the test of time, in the versions around now. Muay Thai, Kickboxing, TaeKwonDo have all been better 'fighting arts'. And they wouldn't've beat Ali either. But remember, that's just what I think, and I've chosen to do aiki... most martial artists hate that!

mj
03-30-2001, 05:55 PM
:D Good luck in your karate grading, too!

lt-rentaroo
03-30-2001, 06:28 PM
Hello,

Force equals mass times acceleration does not just apply to spherical ballistic objects. It applies to all moving objects whether they be fists, feet, cannonballs or paper airplanes (and yes, I enjoy making paper airplanes). Impulse power has to do with time which is a function of acceleration. You can develop a higher impulse power by decreasing the time it takes you to develop the force. Knowing this, I believe that a jab (generally considered to be mostly linear) thrown by Mr. Tyson or Mr. Ali would deliver more force than a jab by Mr. Lee.

Erik,

I'm pretty sure that the song went like this "conjunction junction, what's your function" :)

Personally, I prefer to think about the contributions Mr. Lee and Mr. Ali have made to their respective arts and remember how they lived their lives rather than wonder who could have hit harder than who. Have a good day!

Nathan Richmond
03-30-2001, 07:47 PM
MJ,

What is up with your hang up with Ali and Tyson being bad asses? You actually think that they could hang with people who can kick, grapple, use wrist techniques and break bones? I wouldn't bet on either Ali or Tyson against any of the more well known fighters.

You said something about Muay Thai not matching up with boxing? Yeah right. There are a lot of martial artists and fighters that would destroy any boxer, ever, at any time.

Remember Boxers use gloves, they don't kick, they have rules to their game. A street fight wouldn't be condusive to them against an experianced fighter.

-nate

JimmyC
03-31-2001, 02:28 AM
I agree with nate on this. Tyson, while dangerous (not to mention mentally unstable) in the boxing ring, would have absolutely NO chance against some of the martial artists in the world, one on one. But, that would also depend on the type of fight. If it were a boxing match, then the obvious advantage would go to Tyson, but in a street fight, the martial artist would definitely have the upper hand. Ali, well let's not beat around the bush, is old. He would not last very long at ALL against anyone ever near Bruce Lee's caliber of martial arts, simply because he is not in his prime anymore. Martial artists are trained to use their
WHOLE bodies, not just their upper bodies, so they are all around more capable of defending themself in a fight.

mj
03-31-2001, 04:25 AM
Hi Nate... Who's mj mcfly? It's not me is it :rolleyes:
Your post doesn't make sense. You say a boxer has to fight by rules but a streetfighter doesn't? That's nothing to do with my posts.
I said Karate had been surpassed by other arts, in a 'fighting' way. Maybe though, that's just popular culture and how people see things.

JimmyC, Hi :D
If you read my posts, I said that Ali and Lee were both in their prime at the same time...
So who is this martial artist you are talking about that would beat Ali, boys?
This 'all round, kicking, punching, grappling, choking, arm-breaking, wrist-locking, fast as lightning, strong as an ox' killing machine, with a perfect defense?

Hey, it's cool though, I like your point of view.

Nathan Richmond
03-31-2001, 08:22 AM
You honestly think that Royce Gracie in his prime or someone of that magnitude couldn't beat a boxer in a street fight?What about Gene Labell? I don't have great knowledge of the great overall fighters that have been around. But answer me these questions?

1. How would Tyson or Ali deal with hard, powerful, and fast kicks in a no rules fight?

2. Could Tyson or Ali grapple if the fight went to the ground or would they falter?

3. How would Tyson or Ali do if there weren't any rules? No gloves, no time limits, no rules against hitting below the belt?

I think that pretty much sums things up. Granted Ali or Tyson would put up a good fight against some of the better street fighters/martial artists of the world. But I doubt that a fighter that can only punch and be hit above the belt has any sort of advantage.

-nate

mj
03-31-2001, 09:11 AM
? Boy, you keep changing the rules of the arguments, here, eh :D
How would Gracie or Lee cope with someone trying to bite their nuts off?
How would anyone? Do you know anyone who fights with no rules? Probably. Do you know anyone who could beat me if I threw a grenade through their window :eek: I think you're missing the respect that fighters treat each other with.
If someone can only punch... well Jack of all trades Master of none...

Nathan Richmond
03-31-2001, 09:16 AM
MJ,

I am not dening the validity of your arguement. I see your point quite well. I am just asking if you agree that although Lee or Gracie would have a hard time with Ali or Tyson's punching, wouldn't Ali and Tyson have the same problem with Lee's kicking or other martial art moves? Wouldn't Ali or Tyson have a difficult time grappling with Gracie? I am just saying that it is hard to know who would win in a street fight among these fighters because it would depend on what way the fight went. If it went to the ground probably Gracie, if Ali or Tyson landed a good punch, or if Lee was able to manipulate one of those punches or kick hard to their knees.

-nate

mj
03-31-2001, 09:43 AM
Yes Nate, agreed. Especially about the randomness of fights. Where I'm coming from is that you have to expect to BE hit, so that is what I'm basing my judgement on. We're just evaluating it differently. I can't claim to be right, though.

Axiom
03-31-2001, 10:37 AM
No offense, anyone, but this site seems to have degenerated into a slightly more specific Rec.Martial-Arts, complete with WFC and NHB discussions, and arguments about celebrities fighting...the level of civility has also declined...remember that fact that we're aikidoka's. and not a bunch of people yelling at eachother vehemently in the schoolyard. At accordingly, and civily. And don't feed the trolls.

Alex Magidow

No offense to anyone.

Erik
03-31-2001, 10:42 AM
lt-rentaroo wrote:
Erik,

I'm pretty sure that the song went like this "conjunction junction, what's your function" :)


Another sign that I'm not 19. I'm forgetting things.

mj
03-31-2001, 10:59 AM
Axiom, Hi.
This is the chitchat forum, for anything not just aiki. But no offense taken thoug, and none was intended I'm sure. As to the NHB etc stuff, I personally have no interest in it. An art has to stand the test of time. Lots of them come and lots of them go.

The One
03-31-2001, 11:14 AM
Thank you for respecting our views Mj, as I respect yours.

Has anyone here seen The Legend Of Druken Master? Well if you have, try to remember the beginning of the last fight between Jackie and the guy that used mostly kicks. Remember how Jackie couldn't get one hit in for a few minutes? Well I'm thinking about a boxer and a Tae Kwon Do person...

And Mj, about arts standing the test of time? What exactly do you mean? Why hasn't karate stand the test of time?

Are you saying that it is now useless against other arts like Tae Kwon Do and Judo just because they have more tournaments?

Or are you saying that a shodan in Karate will not be able to protect himself on the streets as good as a shodan in Tae Kwon Do or other arts that have stood the "test of time"?

Please explain...

mj
03-31-2001, 12:59 PM
Hi TheOne.
No, I wasn't saying anything negative against Karate in that way. But it used to be BIG, and then fragmented into a hundred different styles, and then came Taekwondo and the 'kickboxing' and then Muay Thai. It just seems that everytime something 'new' comes along, Gracie for instance... half the world jumps on the bandwagon and suddenly 'it' whatever it is, can 'beat' everything that came before. This isn't do with an art, it's more to do with people. Also, people doing one art, whatever it is, would not have a proper perspective of others because of ego. That isn't to do with the art, I suppose. Karate became fragmented because of money, politics and ego. Bring back Funakoshi Gichin!

mj
03-31-2001, 01:00 PM
Ps... I didn't mention karate in that post, but I see what you mean...

Sid
04-03-2001, 01:55 PM
Well, lets look at the situation form you guys' own experience. Take your own sensei for instance(or yourself, if you are one). How would he stand up to a boxer? Boxers are not taught to fall - a good ikkyo and they might be gone!

Sid

Jim23
04-03-2001, 03:08 PM
Hi all,

Which style is best? Which fighter is best?

In my opinion, it's the person, not the art.

Although I think Bruce Lee was great, Ali was the greatest. ;)

"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee ..." Didn't Morihei Ueshiba say something similar?

As for Tyson ... doesn't JeetKunDo also incorporate biting techniques?

Jim23

mj
04-03-2001, 04:07 PM
Jim... This is not up to your usual standards... we are disappointed.
Go away and find something much funnier or don't come back at all. (Only joking)

Jim23
04-03-2001, 06:29 PM
Maybe we are all wrong.

http://www.aristoagon.com/

What the heck is this??

Jim23

Niadh
04-03-2001, 07:52 PM
lt-rentaroo wrote:
Hello,

Niadh, how did I date myself? Because of the statement I made, do I seem young or old? I remember that commercial from the early 1970's. I'm just curious.


I too, remember thie mentioned add. But I have been helping teach at a local college, and am amazed at the references I make that the students miss. I mean, I'm not that old am I? I just think that we refer to things in discussions that younger people might miss the gist of. And hence we date ourselves. Often we quote things from a time in our lives that was influential.
Sorry, i'm Ramblin' on.

mj
04-03-2001, 07:56 PM
:D My mate Dave thinks that 'Non sates scrire' means 'Don't spill my beer'. Would you like to settle this argument before we strangle each other. Ghaaaagh.

Niadh
04-03-2001, 08:03 PM
MJ, Your mate Dave is wrong. But DON't spill my beer. That is alchohol abuse. Tto know is not enough".
AA few months back (7 or 8?) ?? Gracie challanged Tyson to a NHB match, winner take all, I don't remember the sum. While BJJ is not my thing, My money would be on Gracie. I remember sparring with a boxer in my limited time studying eui-chi-roo. He stated that, anything to the body was a brush off, but even a light strike to the legs, especially thigh area, was a killer to a boxer.

mj
04-03-2001, 08:07 PM
Yeah? Why didn't he challenge Tyson to a fight BEFORE he went to jail, when NOBODY would fight him. God, I would fight anyone if I thought they were past it...

Mark Cochran
04-03-2001, 08:27 PM
Hey I remember conjuntion junction from saturday cartoons. They showed tem till about the mid eighties. Thats not the point however. Ali once said that if he were to only use boxing in a street fight he would lose. I feel that this shows what a great fighter he realy was. Because he didn't have any fantastic beleafs that he could beat people using only one fighting meathod ie boxing.
As to this whole karate out dated stuff. Have any of you seen what has been happing to tae kwon do. Its an olypic sport. Half the offenseive strikes have been removed for safty. Because of that the defenses aganst those strike have also been droped. You have to look real hard now to find a dojo that teachs traditional tae kwon do, and not the watered down olympic version.

Niadh
04-03-2001, 08:34 PM
This challange was shortly, (weeks) after the famous tyson 'Got Milk' episode. Now unless you mean he has been sent to jail AGAIN and I am unaware of it, I can't help you there. But then again, withthat thought line, why didn't _________ challenege him before he went to jail? Unfortunately I do not see the relevance of that statement. Please clarify.

Mark Cochran
04-03-2001, 08:43 PM
mabey he though tyson could use the help and, or money.

Jim23
04-03-2001, 08:59 PM
Mark Cochran wrote:
You have to look real hard now to find a dojo that teachs traditional tae kwon do, and not the watered down olympic version.

There are many ITF dojang around. The olympic style is WTF.

Kam sa hamnida.

Jim23

NYFE Man
04-04-2001, 08:51 AM
Jim23 wrote:
Maybe we are all wrong.

http://www.aristoagon.com/

What the heck is this??

Jim23

My favorite line in there is:

We are of Spain Europe , our english is bad , but our Martial Art is the Best the Alltimes Greatest FASTEST Martial Art !

Looks like they answered this thread for us!

Jim23
04-04-2001, 09:18 AM
It's should also get the vote for the ugliest web site around.

Jim23

andrew
04-04-2001, 09:25 AM
This has nothing to do with what was said! (Apologies for picking on this particular post- twas a random selection.)
The issue was whether Ali could punch harder than Bruce Lee. The nadir was the suggestion by one person that Lee was more powerful with his "One inch punch." How the hell did it get onto the issue of Ali being "past his prime" below here? This is ridiculous- he can't punch as hard as a corpse now?

AAAGAGAAHAGHHHHHHHH.
andrew


JimmyC wrote:
I agree with nate on this. Tyson, while dangerous (not to mention mentally unstable) in the boxing ring, would have absolutely NO chance against some of the martial artists in the world, one on one. But, that would also depend on the type of fight. If it were a boxing match, then the obvious advantage would go to Tyson, but in a street fight, the martial artist would definitely have the upper hand. Ali, well let's not beat around the bush, is old. He would not last very long at ALL against anyone ever near Bruce Lee's caliber of martial arts, simply because he is not in his prime anymore. Martial artists are trained to use their
WHOLE bodies, not just their upper bodies, so they are all around more capable of defending themself in a fight.