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nmrmak
10-23-2004, 09:12 AM
I have a rather simple question: What does ikkyo, nikyo and so on represent? Are there any grphical explanations or could you point me somewhere for a look? I have my sensei saying: ok, this is katatetori aihanmi ikkyo omote. How does ikkyo diifer from nikyo or sankyo? What makes ikkyo what it is?

Thank you in advance,

Nebojsa Mrmak

SeiserL
10-23-2004, 09:32 AM
Go to the terminology section of any frequently asked questions section.

Ikkyo: 1st teaching (usually a lcok/pin, rather than a throw/nage)
Nikkyo: 2nd
Sankyo: 3rd
Yonkyo: 4th
Gogkyo: 5th

Katatetori: standing grab
Aihanmi: same side stance
Ikkyo: 1sdt teaching, lock pinning technique
Omote: to the front

Every field has its vocabulary. One of the hardest things to learn.

Paul Sanderson-Cimino
10-23-2004, 09:35 AM
As almost always, it's best to go ask a senior student about this. However, I know sometimes it's good to have an answer right away, so here's a basic approximation.

Ikkyo: Notice that the elbow doesn't bend a certain way. Feel the tip of your elbow. Feel around, on the side of the joint closer to your shoulder. There's a ball-like thing there. With your partner, grip tightly there, or for practice, use only your te-gatana (knife-edge: the 'karate chop' part of your hand) to press there, angled in towards the joint. That should lock the arm. If you do this properly, very little force is needed to keep a very strong person from rising (directly), because as they do so, they press into their own elbow joint. As you apply this control, remember to cut 'up and out' rather than 'down', as with a large-style sword cut. You want to engage their shoulder and side.

Nikkyo: A wrist control; twisting the wrist in the direction of the pinky - also, of course, extends to elbow and shoulder and such, in that the body is an interlocking system. Very difficult to describe. Think about twisting their pinky towards their head, if you're doing it 'free.' Some styles prefer holding it to their shoulder and bowing towards uke. Either way, you're twisting the two bones in the forearm together, and I believe also messing with a tendon that runs from the ring finger to the elbow. It's quite painful - please, always apply controls slowly and gradually, and do not muscle them! It is possible to use a 'nikkyo hand grip' on an ikkyo technique; though the elbow is not bent, as it would be for 'classic' nikkyo. This can help secure the ikkyo.

Sankyo: Turning their tegatana 'behind them'. Spiraling upwards. Can also be done as an ikkyo style takedown, but with a different handgrip and overall different movement, though it will look similar.

Again, please see a senior student, but these are provisional explanations to satisfy your curiousity.

You can probably find videos online with a few google searches.

Niko Salgado
10-24-2004, 08:17 PM
A book I'd recommend to explain these if you want to do some reading, is Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere by Westbrook/Ratti. It contains pretty good illustrations of the techniques

Ikkyo, nikyo, sankyo, yonkyo, gokyo (along with shihonage and kotegaeshi(oroshi)) according to the book are called "immobilization" techniques. All of these when done correctly will render the attacker paralyzed as long as the technique is happening. Ikkyo is special(other than being the first) because it helps with performing nikyo to gokyo. It is what it is because a large number of techniques are possible by first performing ikkyo.

As mentioned, perhaps ask a senior student to break down the technique slowly to signify the differences and hopefully you'll understand soon enough.

:ki:

nmrmak
10-25-2004, 09:34 AM
Thank you very much for your answers! I have a training today at the dojo, so I'll ask someone after the training.

Thanks again!

Ron Tisdale
10-25-2004, 10:18 AM
Katatedori = one hand grasp
Kosa dori = cross hand grasp
ryote dori = both hands grasp

Those are the classes for Aikikai...Yoshinkan is a little different:

Ikkajo, nikajo, sankajo, etc.
Katate mochi
ayate mochi
ryote mochi

Don_Modesto
10-25-2004, 12:45 PM
What does ikkyo, nikyo and so on represent?rmak

I asked a similar question and Peter Goldsbury generously provided a very detailed answer. Had I the URL quick to hand (I did a search and couldn't find it), I'd simply let you read his comments. Below is what I recall.

Peter referenced Kisshomaru's book Aikido for the terminology. My question was why some techniques are numbered and others named. He said that actually the numbered techniques have names, too, IIRC:

1 (ikkyo)-UDE OSAE; "upper arm pin" (?)
2-KOTE MAWASHI; "forearm turning"
3-KOTE HINERI; forearm twisting
4-sorry, forgot

The numbering was explained as being how the techniques might be applied in succession against resistance. IKKYO fails, go into NIKYO, etc. This seems to work for 1-4 with there being a disconnect somehow with 5 & 6.

Hope this helps.

DCP
10-25-2004, 03:12 PM
I asked a similar question and Peter Goldsbury generously provided a very detailed answer. Had I the URL quick to hand (I did a search and couldn't find it), I'd simply let you read his comments. Below is what I recall.

Peter referenced Kisshomaru's book Aikido for the terminology. My question was why some techniques are numbered and others named. He said that actually the numbered techniques have names, too, IIRC:

1 (ikkyo)-UDE OSAE; "upper arm pin" (?)
2-KOTE MAWASHI; "forearm turning"
3-KOTE HINERI; forearm twisting
4-sorry, forgot

The numbering was explained as being how the techniques might be applied in succession against resistance. IKKYO fails, go into NIKYO, etc. This seems to work for 1-4 with there being a disconnect somehow with 5 & 6.

Hope this helps.

I think #4 is tekubi osae; wrist pin

nmrmak
10-25-2004, 04:20 PM
I went to my dojo today, and got an answer properly demonstrated on me.

*mental note: never ask how to do techniques*

Well, i haven't had the chance to train anything but ikkyo. All i can say is that i love Aikido so far.

csinca
11-02-2004, 11:45 AM
Nebojsa,

You've received a number of good explanations, I only add this because I see ikkyo, nikkyo, sankyo etc... from a slightly different prespective than what has been shared.

Ikkyo, nikkyo, sankyo, kote etc.. are simply various skeletal locks and controls. Looking at ikkyo, nikkyo and sankyo, you are generally in control of the uke's hand or wrist and your goal is to control their center. Like links in a chain if you rotate the palm in towards the body (pronate the forearm) you will notice that the hand will rotate a short distance until the forearm starts to rotate. At that point you have the wrist joint "locked" and you keep rotating until the upper arm (humerus) also rotates at which point you have the elbow "locked". You keep rotating until you get the shoulder.

Through pronation you can lock the shoulder in three general directions. Ikkyo tends to roll the shoulder forward, nikkyo really is a downward lock on the shoulder and sankyo is an "up and in" type lock. Uke's body will show you the direction.

Though it seems like a fairly simple concept, it is hard to explain in writing and even harder to do in practice, but that's why we practice!

Of course you will notice that kote takes the forearm in the opposite rotation.

Chris