PDA

View Full Version : Dogi - Dresscode


Please visit our sponsor:
 

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!


Henning Ulseth
10-21-2004, 09:08 AM
Hello all

I have been looking for information on how to put on the dogi in a correct manner. I remember reading somewhere on the web that in the old days the dogi was put on in a certain way, so that they always would be ready for battle. But I can't seem to find the website anymore. I hope some you can help me! And if there is a more complete "list" of clothing/getting ready etiquette, I would be most interested:)

Creature_of_the_id
10-21-2004, 09:16 AM
only thing i have heard about putting on a dogi is that the jacket is fastened left over right.
I have heard they bury you with your jacket fastened right over left.

and if it is right over left then it can hinder the drawing of a katana on your left hip as it could get caught in the opening of your jacket

Kev

Henning Ulseth
10-21-2004, 09:35 AM
Thanx Kev...but I was more thinking of if the pants go on first or visa-versa? And of a generell clothing etiquette...if possible:)

Bridge
10-21-2004, 09:47 AM
Hello all

in the old days the dogi was put on in a certain way, so that they always would be ready for battle. :)

but I was more thinking of if the pants go on first or visa-versa

Would you want to run into battle with no pants or trousers on? Perhaps it's trousers first? :)

Bronson
10-21-2004, 09:48 AM
This is from memory, which isn't as good as it used to be, so don't take it for gospel.

In Autumn Lightning by Dave Lowry I believe he mentions that the jacket is put on (but not tied closed), then the pants, then the belt. He also talks about how his sensei told him that when you sit to go to the bathroom to pull one leg completely out of your pants so you can move if you're attacked in there.

Bronson

Henning Ulseth
10-21-2004, 10:12 AM
Thanx Bronson:) I think this is what I slightly remember. And it does seem logical!
And the toilet-etiquette...hehe...I hope I won't have to go boomboom in the dojo anytime soon:) But seriously...that to makes sense...I guess, hehehe. Thanx again!

Tim Gerrard
10-21-2004, 11:27 AM
Well if you read "Angry white pyjamas" it says that a true japanese does not wear underclothes under dogi trousers. I know that there are people on this website that were on that particular course so please feel free to correct me.

Fred Little
10-21-2004, 12:31 PM
One of the ways I have seen a great many old-timers suit up seems like it's sequenced to insure that you almost always have enough clothes on to run outside in case of fire or imminent attack, while allowing for reasonable modesty.

If doing koryu or kendo, or if you just have an extra-long kendo style top, omit step four.

1. Take off shirt

2. Put on upper half of keiko gi.

3. Take off trousers (and underwear if going commando) The keiko gi top protects modesty if it is long enough.

4. Put on lower half of keiko gi and tie pants.

5. Put on obi.

6. Put on hakama, front panel first so that nature calls require minimum of undressing.

Hope this helps,

Fred Little

maikerus
10-21-2004, 08:44 PM
Well if you read "Angry white pyjamas" it says that a true japanese does not wear underclothes under dogi trousers. I know that there are people on this website that were on that particular course so please feel free to correct me.

I don't know if the correct term would be "true Japanese", but I do know that we laughed at guys who wore underclothes under their dogi pants. They soon stopped <grin>

It *is* much more comfortable. Try it...you'll like it :)

--Michael

Zato Ichi
10-21-2004, 09:04 PM
I don't know if the correct term would be "true Japanese", but I do know that we laughed at guys who wore underclothes under their dogi pants. They soon stopped <grin>

It *is* much more comfortable. Try it...you'll like it :)

Well, I, for one, am quite happy to wear underwear. I think it's important, especially for those of his who are not the most dexterous people. For example:

About a week ago, I was practicing suwari waza. My partner and I were facing other in seiza, serious... ready. Shinken shobu, I think is the Japanese expression. We bowed. Then as I started to do shikko... I heard a sound not unlike ripping fabric. And, lo and behold, it was ripping fabric. I had just torn a nice big hole in the crotch of my pants :eek:

Suffice it say, my underwear prevented my female partner laughing and pointing at my... uh... lack of endowment. :blush:

PeterR
10-21-2004, 09:15 PM
Hori-san;

Not that I'm checking but I think there is only one in the dojo (S. sensei), at least that changes in the boys room, that goes commando.

And no it is not more comfortable. Even boxer shorts have serious problems. I was doing the last of your next set of 8 techniques (tanto dori) and was stepped on (the pin is from behind). I will not describe the bruising pattern except to extol the virtues of jockey shorts.

maikerus
10-21-2004, 11:30 PM
You guys are wimps. I mean that in the nicest way :)

I have had that ripping sound happen to me, Hori-san. Not the best feeling, but just train through it.

We had one woman who also went underwearless. During a hajime session her dogi pants string somehow got undone. She was senshusei so its not as if she could stop training. The instructor didn't notice until the dogi pants slipped halfway down her thigh. He stopped the hajime long enough for her to tie herself back up.

And I really feel that it is much more comfortable during long hajime sessions when the sweat is pouring out of every pore and its 37 degrees and you are dieing. The rest of the time its still comfortable, just not as noticable. I've only regretted it once and that was on some whirlwind ikkajo thing where I was uke and I don't think anything would have saved me the way my belly-flop (okay..lower than belly-flop) smash landing took me.

Of course...maybe its my Scottish heritage coming through.

xuzen
10-21-2004, 11:41 PM
[QUOTE=Michael Stuempel
.

We had one woman who also went underwearless. During a hajime session her dogi pants string somehow got undone. She was senshusei so its not as if she could stop training. The instructor didn't notice until the dogi pants slipped halfway down her thigh. He stopped the hajime long enough for her to tie herself back up.

And all the fret boyz stopped and oogle?

maikerus
10-21-2004, 11:55 PM
Boon...Are you kidding. This was senshusei, man. Stopping for anything meant pain and destruction beyond imagination.

xuzen
10-22-2004, 12:09 AM
You guys are just too discipline... my hats off.

batemanb
10-22-2004, 03:31 AM
I can`t remember where I read it (if I read it), or who said it, but the process described by Fred above pretty much the same that I heard. The reason given was that one should never be caught in a state of total undress.

It was a few years ago now, but I have adhered to that process ever since, reversing it when changing at the end of class as we don`t have a shower at the dojo. It certainly protects modesty as we don`t have changing rooms either.

Rgds

Bryan

Michael Cardwell
10-22-2004, 05:57 AM
know this is not what your looking for, but in the old days the samurai did not wear dogi pants. So back in the old old days the dress procedure was:
1. underwear
2. long robe that went down to the knees, not sure what it is called. tied with obi.
3. then hakama pants, longer or shorter depending on status and the weather.
4. then Armour.

No underwear while wearing white pants? I do hope all of you who practice this wear hakama! :)

Nick P.
10-22-2004, 07:37 AM
No way, Michael!

The only thing between me and everyone else on the mat is my thin, white pants!

Michael Cardwell
10-22-2004, 07:58 AM
Now thats what I call motivation for keeping proper distance! :D

Ron Tisdale
10-22-2004, 08:36 AM
No underwear while wearing white pants? I do hope all of you who practice this wear hakama!

hehe, no, its a yoshinkan thing (one part *I* don't practice), and we tend not to wear hakama under third dan. In the senshusei course, you all start as white belts anyway...

Ron

mustard
10-22-2004, 09:46 AM
Hi,you are right no underwear,and I have trained with Sensei R mustard.Whom the book angry white pyjamas was writen about,Senseis school is in Burnaby B,C.

mustard
10-22-2004, 09:52 AM
hi angry white pyjamas,was written about Sensei Mustard Robert,it was written by a student who trained in Japan,under the guidance of Sensei

p00kiethebear
10-22-2004, 10:51 AM
The only thing between me and everyone else on the mat is my thin, white pants!

I could never do this. Not out of personal insecurity. All the ladies in the dojo would be too turned on / distracted to keep practicing. :D

Niamh Marie O'Leary-Liu
10-22-2004, 12:20 PM
No way, Michael!

The only thing between me and everyone else on the mat is my thin, white pants!

No wonder they were ANGRY White Pajamas... ;)

batemanb
10-23-2004, 02:44 AM
I could never do this. Not out of personal insecurity. All the ladies in the dojo would be too turned on / distracted to keep practicing. :D


You see, there really is no ego in Aikido, Just Nathan the legend in his own trousers :blush: :D :D


Actually, Michael has a point above, the summer heat in Japan is pretty damn humid at the best of times, a lot of people in the dojo`s I trained at went commando due to the excessive sweating during keiko. I have tried it myself on occasion, it isn`t that bad, although can be uncomfortable at times :eek: . The Japanese dogi`s that I have all have quite thick trousers, and long jackets, so modesty is not compromised, it`s really down to personal preference.

Regards

Bryan

Jeanne Shepard
10-23-2004, 11:18 PM
Well, considering all the times my pants slipped, I could never go without.

Jeanne :p

stuartjvnorton
10-24-2004, 11:25 PM
No wonder they were ANGRY White Pajamas... ;)

Or draughty white pyjamas... :freaky:


hi angry white pyjamas,was written about Sensei Mustard Robert,it was written by a student who trained in Japan,under the guidance of Sensei

I don't think it written _about_ him per se, though he did feature quite extensively in parts.

maikerus
10-25-2004, 03:29 AM
hehe, no, its a yoshinkan thing (one part *I* don't practice

Tsk, tsk...and here I thought you a follower of "The Way". :)

--Michael

maikerus
10-25-2004, 03:38 AM
Hi,you are right no underwear,and I have trained with Sensei R mustard.Whom the book angry white pyjamas was writen about,Senseis school is in Burnaby B,C.

John,

You are lucky to have Robert Mustard Sensei as an instructor. He was one of my primary instructors for 4 years and is the absolute best teacher of anything I have ever had the pleasure of studying under.

Please say Hi to him for me.

BTW...the book wasn't really about him, it just seemed that way because he and Robert Twigger had an interesting relationship which came out in the book. The book was actually a portrayal of Robert Twigger's year in Japan while he was doing the Senshusei course. It is based on a true story, but edited for general reading so please take what you get out of the book with a grain of salt.

Trust me...I was there <g>.

--Stumpy

Henning Ulseth
10-25-2004, 06:23 AM
Well...I think I have all the answers I need, (and a bunch I didn't need...hehe:)) Thank you all!

And I have tried "commando" and...well...it felt weird.Too weird actually:) I'll stick to wearing my gi WITH underwear:) :)

Timothy Tikker
06-23-2006, 09:57 PM
We had one woman who also went underwearless. During a hajime session her dogi pants string somehow got undone. She was senshusei so its not as if she could stop training. The instructor didn't notice until the dogi pants slipped halfway down her thigh. He stopped the hajime long enough for her to tie herself back up..

Could this have something to do with why O-Sensei really wanted ALL students to wear the hakama, not just black belts?

Dajo251
06-23-2006, 11:27 PM
on the underwear under gi pants, I have to, I have felt some serious pain taking a hard break fall w/o underware under gi pants, basically the goody bag acted more like a speed back, yeah never again after that

Hardware
06-26-2006, 12:18 AM
My sensei only trains "commando" style - of course being sandan he obviously wears a hakama.

He actually dresses in the sequence detailed by Fred Little.

I've gone "commando" a few times when I've opened my gym bag to realize I'd forgotten to pack underwear (and I'm wearing mesh lined shorts to travel to the dojo). I just worry about really hot and humid days when sensei runs a really hard practice - if the dogi pants get too wet things can get a little...transparent... :o

Nick P.
06-26-2006, 09:15 AM
Maybe the importance of what sequence one gets dressed is based more on the imminent danger of earthquakes. I ran outside wearing not a whole lot my first night in Fukushima-ken after being awoken by a mild tremor; the local farming folk and dogs up at that hour were looking at me kinda funny....

ChrisMoses
06-26-2006, 10:41 AM
Just thought I'd thow out some historical perspective on 'traditional' attire...

What we in Aikido think of as 'traditional' is quite modern actually. Before Kano Sensei modified and bleached a 'fireman's jacket' for use in judo, budoka typically trained in what they wore regularly. That would be (optionally) a mawashi (simpler every-day version of the 'sumo-thong') under a kimono top (which may have included a 'han-juban' the equivalent of an undershirt). Then a kaku-obi, a traditional obi with the knot tied in back. Over that could be a hakama. Kano Sensei wanted a more durable training uniform and so modified the heavy cotton overcoat worn by firemen and in festivals, added thin cotton pants and the padded smaller obi. Aikido basically adopted the judogi but added the hakama over top to dress it up. Most older arts think we're crazy for wearing pants under our hakama. You could compare it to always wearing jeans under your kilt, it's kind of one or the other.

A lot of people who I know who do more traditional arts wear kendogi (longer and with a slit in the back not the sides) and some running shorts with kaku-obi and kimono on top.

Ecosamurai
06-26-2006, 11:04 AM
Actually, Michael has a point above, the summer heat in Japan is pretty damn humid at the best of times, a lot of people in the dojo`s I trained at went commando due to the excessive sweating during keiko

With regards to underwear in hot humid climates it is usually advisable for hygiene purposes to wear no underwear if you are male.
I spent some time doing ecological research in a tropical rainforest and believe me you don't want to wear underwear because eventually you'll get an infection. This is due to bacteria living off of the sweat produced in the groin area. Females don't really have to worry about this for a variety of biological reasons I won't go in to here. This assumes of course that you'd be wearing said clothing on a day in day out basis and be physically quite active, otherwise its not a big problem.

So in the senshusei course thats been mentioned it'd probably not be a great idea. But for regular training it wouldn't be a difficulty.

Mike

kuniggety
06-26-2006, 05:53 PM
I don't think people have to worry about hygiene purposes in their training of whether they'd wear underwear or not. While yes you tend to hold sweat down there in a humid climate, if you're conscious about hygiene, you'd probably be taking a shower and putting on clean underwear anyways after your training.

As for Japan being humid, psshh... try Okinawa.