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sarah07
10-20-2004, 06:59 AM
This is one of those little questions that has been floating around at the back of my brain for a while. Hopefully someone will be able to shed some light...

The kanji for "Ki" in Aikido - I know it as the one that is written with four strokes on top and two in the bottom left enclosure, that look a bit like a cross (or the katakana 'me').
Written here for those with machines that support Japanese characters; 気

But Ive seen it on odd occasion written with the four strokes at the top and then the 6-stroke radical for rice ('kome') in the bottom left (ie; the characters at top left of this page) :confused:

Are my eyes failing me or is this a derivation of the former character? an older way of writing it? or just a stylistic variation...?

Cheers!

-Sarah Moon.

Chuck.Gordon
10-20-2004, 08:07 AM
If I remember right, the simpler 'cross' or 'X' version is a more modern, simplified, kanji.

Chuck

akiy
10-20-2004, 12:00 PM
If I remember right, the simpler 'cross' or 'X' version is a more modern, simplified, kanji.
Yup.

-- Jun

Rupert Atkinson
10-20-2004, 07:37 PM
Japan has simplified many of the characters. The simple 'cross' you describe is the simplified one -in fact - the only one in use in modern Japan. Perople using the old one are, perhaps, lost in time. The old one, with kome (rice) in the centre, is still used in Korea; although Korea rarely uses any kanji these days; when it does, it is the old ones. China has its own version of simplified characters too, quite independent and different to those of Japan. Can be quite confusing if you study all three ... and then there is Taiwan ...

Bronson
10-20-2004, 07:59 PM
No cultural or linguistic basis for this but I like the old one better. It is just more aesthetically pleasing to my eye.

Oh well, lost in time I will remain :D

Bronson

sarah07
10-20-2004, 09:50 PM
Thanks, making much more sense now! And always good to know my eyes arent playing tricks on me just yet ;)

Rupert - Interesting to hear that the character is used in Korean too. It does sound as if things could get a little muddled if you study all three. Are you?! I can only imagine what that would do to my brain as I have a hard enough time with Japanese :hypno:

Just out of curiosity - does anyone know what the 'cross' radical means (or if it has a meaning for that matter)? Is it merely a simplified version of 'kome'? Id just like to be able to call it something other than 'the radical at the bottom of 'ki' that looks like a cross'...

Bronson - agree with you completely about the aesthetics of the older version... theres just something about it... (just goes to show newer aint always better!) :D

Rupert Atkinson
10-21-2004, 01:30 AM
If it is a simplified version of kome then it means kome. Don't have my dictionary at hand but I think the kome is a radical (source kanji) wheras the abbreviated version is 'probably' not.

And yes, I have studied all three, although I am not very good at Chinese - it needs another boost.

saltlakeaiki
10-21-2004, 11:26 PM
Just out of curiosity - does anyone know what the 'cross' radical means (or if it has a meaning for that matter)? Is it merely a simplified version of 'kome'? Id just like to be able to call it something other than 'the radical at the bottom of 'ki' that looks like a cross'...Strictly speaking, the "me" is not a radical as such, it's just a simplification of the kome part of this character. The radical is actually the entire rest of the character other than the "me", called "kigamae" ("vapor enclosure"). Furthermore the "me" cannot be used as an abbrev. for kome in general, just in this case.

Nelson shows yet another version of this character with "hi" (fire) inside rather than kome. Odd... I've never seen that one before; must be very obscure.

sarah07
10-28-2004, 07:28 PM
Cheers for the information - interesting!

I have never seen the combination that involves "hi" at the bottom and have asked a few of my Japanese teacher friends here at school - they are all as baffled as I am! Maybe it is another stylistic variation? I dont know. If you find out, please let us know! :p

Rupert Atkinson
10-28-2004, 07:44 PM
Incidentally, the Chinese version of this characer has an empty space instead of the 'me' or the 'kome.'

saltlakeaiki
10-29-2004, 02:10 PM
I have never seen the combination that involves "hi" at the bottom and have asked a few of my Japanese teacher friends here at school - they are all as baffled as I am! Maybe it is another stylistic variation?It may be that this variation was only used by one author, or was a "fad" at one time, during the Edo Period. Nelson has some very unusual, obscure, and archaic stuff that modern Japanese would never know unless they are very familiar with classical literature. I certainly wouldn't know it otherwise :) I only mentioned it for the sake of interest...