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Olivia_S
10-20-2004, 12:22 AM
I've being learning Aikido for a couple of months and I'm having some doubts. I think that when I started my reasons were maybe wrong - I was probably a bit scared to do a harder martial art and thought that Aikido was the only thing I could actually do (as I'm pretty small).

I REALLY love some aspects of Aikido - I love the people I train with and the environment. Some of the moves are really cool and I love using the Jo and bokken...

However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching, a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc.... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido.

I was thinking of checking out a Hapkido class as I believe it is similar to Aikido but with equal focus on punches and kicks and a lot more weapons work.

What do you guys reckon?

Zato Ichi
10-20-2004, 12:36 AM
However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching, a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc.... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido.

Modern weapons? Go buy a gun. Go to local gun club and register for classes. Train.

CNYMike
10-20-2004, 12:59 AM
I've being learning Aikido for a couple of months and I'm having some doubts. I think that when I started my reasons were maybe wrong - I was probably a bit scared to do a harder martial art and thought that Aikido was the only thing I could actually do (as I'm pretty small).

I REALLY love some aspects of Aikido - I love the people I train with and the environment. Some of the moves are really cool and I love using the Jo and bokken...

However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching ....

Given that concerns that lead you to check out Aikido, you realize learning to kick and punch means you will be kicked and punched, right? Hopefully, you will block it, but if you don't, it hurts.

..... a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc....

As noted, firearms are the only truly "modern" weapons. If that's your main thing, martial arts are the wrong place.

..... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido.

I was thinking of checking out a Hapkido class as I believe it is similar to Aikido but with equal focus on punches and kicks and a lot more weapons work.

What do you guys reckon?

It's up to you what to do, not me. However, let me share and observation: It took me two years to realize what I was getting out of Tai Chi and how it fit into my MA regime, so it may be fare to say that two months is not enough time to understand what you are --- and aren't --- getting out of aikido. Martial arts training doesn't have an instant payoff; it is and ongoing process over your whole lifetime. You can't take a two month course and say, "Ok, I got it now." Anyone who tells you you can is talking out the wrong end of their digestive tract.

Whether you stick with Aikido, switch to Hapikido, or cross-train in both, is entirely up to you. But don't expect an instant result or "buzz." It doesn't work that way at all.

PeterR
10-20-2004, 01:25 AM
Took me years to find the martial art that was right for me. Go do something else. You might come back to Aikido or not, but if you do you will have an extra skill set.

Keith_k
10-20-2004, 01:31 AM
I was thinking of checking out a Hapkido class as I believe it is similar to Aikido but with equal focus on punches and kicks and a lot more weapons work.

What do you guys reckon?

As much as I like to see people turned on to Hapkido (Darth Vader voice: "you underestimate the power of the dark side...") I must concure with Mr. Gallagher, it will take time.

On a personal note, I have been studying hapkido for 4 years, and I would be happy to answer any questions you may have about the art. Please send me a personal message if you are interested.

aikido_diver
10-20-2004, 02:06 AM
I guess thats how we all start a martial art. I pondered on this idea that we begin martial arts for different reasons, mine was self defense, so I started Wing Chun. I learnt how to fight, kick and punch, rip heads off, etc. But i found myself with over confidence which also led me to something stupid. I did Wing Chun for three years privately with a high level instructor, as well as classes where I learnt to spar with people different heights and weights.

Anyways the thing that makes me laugh when I speak to the people that I trained with they all went on to do other martial arts that focused more on either; spiritual development, learning ways to better health i.e tai chi. These people were all high level kung fu fighters (hehe), but all went on to something else.

So my advice to you, (even though im a youngster and really have no real life experience - 18yrs old), go and dabble in other things, go learn Wing Chun - founded by a women for smaller people. I suggest the International Wing Chun Academy - www.iwca.com.au . But please continue with your Aikido training, it takes you to places unimaginable in terms of spiritual understanding (not that I have achieved this yet) but thats what has captured me. The whole philosohpy of it all. Buy some books on the art, go to a library and hire some they will help you understand a lot.

Why would you wanna train with modern weapons? Violence isn't the answer (different when your attacked and no choice in the matter) so please go learn some "valuable" martial arts. Again try other things Krav Maga, etc.

Anyways good luck with your pursuit in finding a martial art, but please I urge you to continue your learning in Aikido as it opens doors to realms that do not exist to the normal "agro fighter" as it opens a perseption we as humans cannot scientifically understand.

Cheers.

NOTE: if any information in here is wrong please alert me and Ill happily edit the post. Just my personal understand of the art through training both in Aikido and Wing Chun as well reading numerous books on the matter of religion, martial arts, budo, etc.

Bridge
10-20-2004, 02:44 AM
There's no harm in having a looksee.

I get a buzz out of both aikido and karate. They're brilliant for different reasons.

Kicking and punching is great fun, but so is throwing each other about! Aikido takes longer before you can really throw yourself into it, on account of ukemis needing to develop sufficiently, but IMO it's just as rewarding as being able to do a solid punch or high kick. Which can take equally long to achieve as a good ukemi, if you are not flexible or your balance is not so good.

And as for getting kicked or hit occasionally? It's not really a problem, and instructors won't let you spar with any dangerous nutters until you are safe to do so. However, you may not be allowed to spar at all for a few months. And getting hit can't be worse than someone taking a lock too far can it?

Wishing you all the best in your search!

Olivia_S
10-20-2004, 03:48 AM
Why would you wanna train with modern weapons? Violence isn't the answer (different when your attacked and no choice in the matter) so please go learn some "valuable" martial arts. Again try other things Krav Maga, etc.


Sorry I didn't express that very well.

When we use the bokken, for example, it is always emphasised that it is an obsolete weapon and that we use it to practice accuracy etc... But I want to train with weapons that I could use on someone! I'm not meaning to sound violent, but although I like using the Bokken I feel like using weapons like the Jo is more practical. Although I get the point of using the Bokken and I love training with it, I just don't get the importance of it (yet).

I think what I will do is continue to train and watch a variety of other martial arts, maybe try a few free classes, and if I end up realising that I enjoy Aikido the most, then at least I've made sure.

Michael Cardwell
10-20-2004, 04:17 AM
Olivia, if you are interested in using weapons you should try a different MA. The aiki ken and aiki jo that we train with are not there so you can become a weapons master. They exist in aikido so we can defend against weapons that are very common. A knife, pipe or club are are still used to attack people with, so they are not obsolete. Also, in my opinion, swords are not an anachronism. I mean, its not as if swords have lost there ability to dispatch people, only that they are not as concealable as a knife (small sword) so they are not used any more. Think about it, what would you be more afraid of, a guy with a 4 inch switchblade, or a guy with a katana ( 3 foot razor )?

Jordan Steele
10-20-2004, 08:25 AM
If you want to punch and kick and use more weapons, Aikido isn't for you, it's that simple. Have Fun!!!

Greg Jennings
10-20-2004, 09:07 AM
I've been studying one art or another, with some gaps, since I was a child. I'm 42 now. I'm very comfortable with the "brand" of aikido I study. At this point, I'm comfortable finishing my journey there.

It sounds like you're not comfortable right now. Go check some other things out.

Regards,

David_francis
10-20-2004, 09:32 AM
I felt the same, i thought that i need some martial art that is effective after a few years and not after like 10 like aikido. So i asked around and found lots of different sorts of striking art dojos, boxing, kickboxing, thai bo, tang soo do, but i didnt really want to do a non japanese martial art as i didnt think it would compliment my aikido too much. Eventually i found a small karate club which is not very well known and now i train there once a week. It also helps my posture for aikido. Even though i feel like im missing something in my aikido, i could never stop doing it, i like it too much.

GaiaM
10-20-2004, 09:33 AM
Two things:
1) if you're not enjoying aikido, you should try something else instead, but if you're enjoying it somewhat i definitely encourage you to take a little more time with it (or a lot more) before deciding it will not give you the "buzz" you need. Other aikido dojos will be different as well, so I suggest visiting other styles (what style are you in?)
2) In my understanding, one of the biggest reasons that we use weapons in aikido is because the art is based on sword work. By using the bokken we understand the movements better, where they came from, and their effectiveness.
Gaia

Jason Tonks
10-20-2004, 10:04 AM
Hello there Olivia. There really is no need for you to change your martial art. What you may want to do is change your dojo. The truth of the matter speaking from experience is that the training methodology in Aikido varies greatly. The real chasm exists by and large between pre war and post war aiki. If you want to do punching and kicking, you need to find a dojo that incorporates that as part of your training. You are more than likely going to have to train within an Aikibudo/jutsu dojo. Whatever anybody tells you, the reality is that some dojos are more martially orientated than others. In the end, you get what you train for. You need to find somewhere that suits you, train your mind, body and spirit hard and progress will follow. Aikido if trained in properly is as effective martially as any other discipline.
Good luck in your training!

All the best Jason T

CNYMike
10-20-2004, 11:41 AM
.... When we use the bokken, for example, it is always emphasised that it is an obsolete weapon and that we use it to practice accuracy etc... But I want to train with weapons that I could use on someone! I'm not meaning to sound violent, but although I like using the Bokken I feel like using weapons like the Jo is more practical. Although I get the point of using the Bokken and I love training with it, I just don't get the importance of it (yet).



Aikido movements come straight from swordsmanship; I've read that O Sensei used to explain techniques in terms of sword cuts and thrusts. So it's important because Aikido is a weapons-based art, and the sword is the basis for it.

As to it being obsolete .... well, many martial arts that have things that are interesting and fun but also useless. For instance, Kali would seem very pracitcal beacuse it starts with the stick, which is something you could carry and use without raising eyebrows, as opposed to a gun or a knife. You alos get a HUGE empty hand section covering both grappling and striking. Yet mixed into all that is espada y daga, the "sword and dagger" method, where you and your partner have stick in your right hand and a (FAKE!) knife in the left hand; you'll see photos of people doing tie-ups from espada y daga in those overview books on MA if you see anything. It is fun and interesting, and relates to footwork and lays the groound work for empty hand trapping. But at the same time it's useless because you are not going to be walking down the street with a stick and a knife and getting into fights with people with sticks and knives.

I don't know much about hapkido, but I'm sure their system includes weapons that while historoically important to Korean arts are useless in this day and age. Ditto for other systems.

So no, you are not going to be walking around carrying a sword getting into fights with other people with swords. But that is the basis of the system. If you stay with it long enough, that will become apparent to you.

tenshinaikidoka
10-20-2004, 04:14 PM
Olivia, perhaps look around at other Aikido schools. Like what was said before, some schools also include Atemi (striking) into the curriculum. However, I am not sure where the more weapons thing comes into play. A sword can be translated in an attack as a club, pipe, bat, knife or any other item that people use to fight with in todays world. It is more than a mere sword, there are real world applications to the practise of AikiKen.

Huker
10-20-2004, 07:54 PM
Olivia,

I am a newcomer to Yoshinkan style Aikido. Our style does involve strikes in the curriculum and we do perform all of the traditional Aikido techniques as well. If you're interested in a style of Aikido that involves strikes (rarely kicks but some very powerful hand strikes) you might want to give Yoshinkan a shot. We also learn the use of the bokken, jo, and tanto.

As far as the weapons go, I agree with the others. Although few people walk around bolstering a shiny new katana at their hip, the bokken is still a part of the Aikido art. Yes, many moves are based on those done by a katana, I appreciate it more for the fact that it is part of the art itself. If all sensei suddenly decided that the bokken was an obsolete weapon and it was eliminated from Aikido, Aikido would lose something important (I'm not trying to pass judgement on your sensei, here...I'm just saying). Also, there are many jo- and tanto- like weapons out there, I'm sure you've noticed. The jo is about the length of a pool cue, for example. Their practicality speaks for themselves.

Well, now that I've regurgitated everything that's been said on this thread and I've contributed my meager two cents, I have some studying that can't be ignored.... :freaky:

I hope you stick with Aikido.

xuzen
10-20-2004, 10:30 PM
However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching, a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc.... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido
Define real and non-obsolete weapond? For me it is the art of throwing the heavy set mobile phone accurately to hit uke's nose at 50 yards distance called mobile-phono-uchi-dori-do which inccidenly I am a hachidan.

I also have a rokkyudan in the art of using the paper-clip to strike at uke's vital nerve spot.

You can PM me to get more information
.
I was thinking of checking out a Hapkido class as I believe it is similar to Aikido but with equal focus on punches and kicks and a lot more weapons work.

Hapkido... good art, can also check Yoseikan style aikido, if you like the rough and tumble.

Boon.

Olivia_S
10-21-2004, 03:31 AM
Thanks everyone for your replies. There have been many points raised that I hadn't thought about.

The weapons thing isn't the main worry with me, I was just throwing that in for emphasis! My main thing is wanting to do some kicking and punching. It's good to see that I didn't get bombarded with a heap of "how could you say such a thing".

But, as I said earlier, if I watch some other classes and maybe participate in a few it might give me something to compare with and ensure that I'm making the right decision, whatever that may be. I might decide that I hate punching and kicking!

Even though I'd pretty much decided to take that approach before posting, I like to hear other's opinions as the more informed I am, the better position I am in to make a decision. And as mentioned, there were some points raised that hadn't crossed my mind.

PeterR
10-21-2004, 03:42 AM
Olivia;

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that some of us believe that in order to do good Aikido you have to get some training in Judo, Karate and perhaps Kendo. Now you can do that now or latter, one at a time or all at once. You don't have to even become expert in all, I would say a years worth once a week is more than enough. If you want more latter great but the idea is to gain the benefit each has to offer, experience different styles of attack and defense, and decide what really is right for you.

ian
10-21-2004, 07:55 AM
Yeh - I think Peter has a great point. I've seen many people start aikido, give up and do a striking martial art, and then only after that do they come back to aikido with a greater realisation of why aikido is as it is. You've got to find your opwn path, and if you have doubts, best to persue what you think is best - aikido is not going to disappear - you can always come back later. The benefit you get can be very dependent on your instructor as well.

CNYMike
10-21-2004, 11:05 AM
Olivia;

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that some of us believe that in order to do good Aikido you have to get some training in Judo, Karate and perhaps Kendo. Now you can do that now or latter, one at a time or all at once. You don't have to even become expert in all, I would say a years worth once a week is more than enough. If you want more latter great but the idea is to gain the benefit each has to offer, experience different styles of attack and defense, and decide what really is right for you.

I agree, and it is worth noting that, at least IMHO, you can extend the principle beyond Japanese martial arts. You've laready mentioned hapkido; if you want to do a kung fu system or <plug> Filipino or Indonesian arts </plug>, go for it! This is porbably why my Kali instructor not only thought it was a great idea that I was resuming Aikido after 16 years, but from the way he sounded on the phone, you'd think he would have shoved me in the door if he'd been there! :) Experiencing the martial arts of different cultures is also part of examining what's out there, and you'll never know what you're going to get out of anything until you try it. Heck, if you want to do Aikido and THAI BOXING, why not?

Good luck!

Kevin Leavitt
10-21-2004, 01:42 PM
I would agree with all that it is good to study other arts like karate etc. Most everyone I respect as a teacher and budoka has trained in other external arts. I think in the long run most tend to come back to an internal art such as aikido or ba gau.

I also think you will find the weapons work in aikido to be very relevant to modern weapons. It is not as obvious as some other systems, but no one said it would be easy to learn good principles.

I am using the weapons work and aikido that I learned to develop a non-lethal weapons training program for my Army unit.

I would encourage you to look around to find a good fit like most others have already recommended! Good luck in your search!

Matt Molloy
10-23-2004, 03:30 AM
Define real and non-obsolete weapond? For me it is the art of throwing the heavy set mobile phone accurately to hit uke's nose at 50 yards distance called mobile-phono-uchi-dori-do which inccidenly I am a hachidan.

I also have a rokkyudan in the art of using the paper-clip to strike at uke's vital nerve spot.

You can PM me to get more information

Boon, you're going about this in the wrong way. You need to put this on a video, advertise it in the Martial Arts magazines and charge 200.00 per course before you eventually grade the student (at a further cost of 1000.00) by the use of getting them to video themselves doing the technique and sending it in at which point they receive a shiny gold belt and a badly printed certificate in an oriental language that makes any native speaker of said language burst out laughing whenever they see it. ;)

You could liberally sprinkle the title of Soke around but this may be over egging the pudding.

Cheers,

Matt.

xuzen
10-23-2004, 04:04 AM
Boon, you're going about this in the wrong way. You need to put this on a video, advertise it in the Martial Arts magazines and charge 200.00 per course before you eventually grade the student (at a further cost of 1000.00) by the use of getting them to video themselves doing the technique and sending it in at which point they receive a shiny gold belt and a badly printed certificate in an oriental language that makes any native speaker of said language burst out laughing whenever they see it. ;)

You could liberally sprinkle the title of Soke around but this may be over egging the pudding.

Cheers,

Matt.

GBP 200.00 (sorry, I don't have the pound sign on my keyboard), and GBP 1,000.00... hmmm, not a bad idea Matt. I actually thought of some Elvis Presley style show outfit as the dogi complete with gems studded belt for my future dan grades.

Oriental language? Can I use Old Gaelic instead?

Cheers Matt,
:D
Boon.

Matt Molloy
10-23-2004, 04:27 AM
GBP 200.00 (sorry, I don't have the pound sign on my keyboard), and GBP 1,000.00... hmmm, not a bad idea Matt. I actually thought of some Elvis Presley style show outfit as the dogi complete with gems studded belt for my future dan grades.

Oriental language? Can I use Old Gaelic instead?

Cheers Matt,
:D
Boon.

Classic. :D

The Old Gaelic idea may need a twist in the history, something like a Shaolin Monk taking a wrong turn at Henan and winding up in Ireland or something, but I can see it working.

As to the Elvis idea, well who could argue with the king? :D If he didn't beat them with his martial arts, he could always dazzle them with rhinestones.

Cheers man,

Matt.

mustard
10-25-2004, 10:51 AM
Aikido,teaches about your person,it coordinate your body and your mind=your heart.It takes a long time to be honest with your self,Aikido is growth through love,and being human instead of being of the egoic mind.Be good to yourself and your energy expresses that to others in your life,so that combat,is the very last resort.The reason aikido was developed,is to give you a new life style,and it also was developed for smaller people to protect them selves from bigger violent people.Its angles and Ki and breathing skills.So give it a chance it takes years to get it,like it takes years to get good at anything.I would say if you want to train in an offensive martial art,I would say Kempo is the most real for street self defense,lots of kicking and hitting throws just darn right nasty stuff,but your heart will bleed with pain if you had to harm a human being that way.But you have free will.

jonreading
10-25-2004, 12:05 PM
The weapons thing isn't the main worry with me, I was just throwing that in for emphasis! My main thing is wanting to do some kicking and punching. It's good to see that I didn't get bombarded with a heap of "how could you say such a thing".

Olivia, hope you're getting informative answers you are looking for. Peter brought up a great point earlier about training experience. Many early (and contemporary) students of aikido were competent in other arts before beginning aikido. Also, I think dojos sometimes make students feel disloyal if you cross-train or go to another fighting system. This is unfortunate, but should not sway your decision.

Many of the threads have the same theme: if you don't feel you are ready for aikido, then do something else until you are ready. You are not the first person to have this dilemma, and you won't be the last.

Good luck.

stern9631
10-25-2004, 04:53 PM
Aikido has openings for punching, kicking, leg sweeps, traps, elbows and destructions. Ask someone where they are in the technique. Look for the jab that collapses to an elbow, then progresses into a leg sweep and ends in a finishing blow. IT IS THERE! :grr:

willy_lee
10-28-2004, 02:35 AM
Aikido has openings for punching, kicking, leg sweeps, traps, elbows and destructions. Ask someone where they are in the technique. Look for the jab that collapses to an elbow, then progresses into a leg sweep and ends in a finishing blow. IT IS THERE! :grr:
It may be there, but it is also seems to be rarely practiced, and hardly ever at speed. Usually you've got to visualize it quietly to yourself unless you've got a special understanding with your partner. Any buzz in that is pretty cerebral, not visceral at all.

I get a buzz out of aikido but I totally sympathize with sometimes wanting something a little more punchy/kicky. You know, sometimes I get really in an analytical or studious mode in practice and I just want to hone technique, get it right, get the blending just right, whatever, and there's definitely a kind of buzz to be found in that. But some times I get in the mood for some high-flying thrills or some bruises and aching muscles (maybe on me, maybe on someone else). Cos it feels so good when we stop! ;)

It's all good :)

=wl

PeterR
10-28-2004, 02:49 AM
But some times I get in the mood for some high-flying thrills or some bruises and aching muscles (maybe on me, maybe on someone else). Cos it feels so good when we stop! ;)

You shouldn't have to leave Aikido to get that.

I sure am not happy (sick puppy alert) if I'm not hurting somewhere the next day after Aikido practice.

Interesting point though. The punch/kick drills are simple, repetitive, aerobic, and can be very satisfying. If your Aikido doesn't provide a similar outlet, perhaps you need to develop something. We have tsukuri reps to do that.

bob_stra
10-28-2004, 11:43 AM
However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching, a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc.... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido.

I was thinking of checking out a Hapkido class as I believe it is similar to Aikido but with equal focus on punches and kicks and a lot more weapons work.

What do you guys reckon?

Well... it's worth a shot. Certainly a smaller leap of faith than going from aikido to say...muay thai. You may still find it a bit "unbuzzy" for your tastes.

You could go the other route and try something like Close Quarter Combat in conjunction with aikido. It's not very aikido like, but it has all sorts of 'modern weapons' (umbrellas, canes, belts, beer bottles) in the curriculum. Ditto Budo Jitsu which is a little more aikido-like, but looks quite .... hmmmm....to me.

http://www.cqctactics.com/
http://www.budo-jitsu.com/

There's also stuff out there like Savate (kick em in the shins with steel caps, whack em with a brolly or a wooden chair, knives etc), FMA, JJJ (japanese ju jitsu) yadda yadda.

http://www.savateaustralia.com/

http://www.martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/eskrima/digests/fmafaq.htm

(sorry I couldn't find clubs local to you. Take a look in the "white pages" section of Blitz Martial Arts magazine at you local newsagent)

bob_stra
10-28-2004, 12:02 PM
Define real and non-obsolete weapond? For me it is the art of throwing the heavy set mobile phone accurately to hit uke's nose at 50 yards distance called mobile-phono-uchi-dori-do which inccidenly I am a hachidan.

I also have a rokkyudan in the art of using the paper-clip to strike at uke's vital nerve spot.

You can PM me to get more information



See...that'd be funny if stuff like that didn't exist in real life. :-)

http://www.donrearic.com

Specifically
http://www.donrearic.com/tistraw.html

I have a magazine article (1993 UK COMBAT mag) in which some FMA / Silat guys are going at it using rolled up newspapers and mobile phones.

Do not, repeat Do not underestimate a good rolled up newspaper. Dog's fear em for a reason - they hurt like a S.O.B. :-)

(what can I say...improvised weaponry is a sick hobby of mine)

Steve Mullen
10-29-2004, 03:47 AM
"However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching, a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc.... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido"

I think that a lot of people fail to see that just because, in the dojo, we train with bokken jo and tanto the techniques we use for these can be easily transferred to other "weapons" such as a pool cue, a baseball bat, a bottle instead of a tanto etc.

as for the gun thing, anyone who has seen equilibrium will know that the butt of an m16 can be used (rather effectively, not to mention supprisingly) to do a pretty nasty looking nikkyo projection :uch:

Olivia_S
11-04-2004, 10:35 PM
Well I looked around, and being where I am there is only one school for each martial art style, and even then not every martial art is represented.

I looked at Kung Fu, Hapkido, and Ju Jitsu. I was disappointed with all three. I could have looked at more but I just thought it was pointless and felt a bit like I'd wasted my time!

While I may want to do something with more variety, the fact is that where I live, there are no classes that come anywhere close to the quality of my Aikido class.

There are varying reasons for this. I think mainly because everyone who does Aikido seems to be around my age (26) or older. There's probably also a shortage of qualified instructors in this part of the world.

After being in a strict-ish environment I was appalled by how in the other classes I watched, people talked and gossiped, there were some standing around doing nothing at all, another class someone's kids kept running in and talking to their Mum.

Added to this, the Kung Fu and Ju Jitsu classes barely did 3 moves in the one class (BORING!!). Hapkido looked kinda cool but was a bit too commercial for my liking. And none of them seemed to have a particular high standard.

Luckily for me, my partner was an instructor when he was younger so he could help me guage the kind of standard. He was shaking his head throughout all of the classes and nearly got up there to show them how to do it!

So... after all that, I'm continuing with Aikido because I'd rather learn something properly and after I've had a couple of weeks break I feel a renewed energy (I think also being exam time I was slightly batty too). My partner is also going to teach me some kicks and punches.

In the end its all good. I'm going to stick with Aikido and learn some extra moves on the side. Like someone else said, you can encorporate punches and kicks in if you want anyway.

I said right from the start if I look around and decide to stay with Aikido then that's a plus, and at least now I know!!

Thanks everyone for your help :)

Andrew James
11-05-2004, 04:19 AM
After being in a strict-ish environment I was appalled by how in the other classes I watched, people talked and gossiped, there were some standing around doing nothing at all, another class someone's kids kept running in and talking to their Mum.


I seem to be having the same problem Olivia, and what you said is pretty much exactly what I said to my wife last night after coming back from a Yoseikan class!! But also from a Karate class two weeks ago, a jujitsu class (also 2 weeks ago) and a Kung Fu class the other day. :(

However, this week I got talking to a collegue of mine who invited me to his Savate (french kickboxing) class. I wasn't sure what to expect and I was pretty sure that I wasn't going to like it, but I WAS SO WRONG.

The class wasn't as strict as my aikido class, (then again I wasn't expecting it to be since I don't see boxing as a martial art) but it was in a very well organised, (a lot better than the other MA classes), relaxed and very friendly atmosphere. I had punched & kicked bags & pads, sparred a little outside the ring and got a beating (but nothing serious!) inside the ring and I left that evening feeling great!!

I really love aikido and I will continue to go my classes, but like you I wanted to "kick and punch" a little and I think I have found what I've been looking for. I'm going again tonight for another trail before signing up but I doubt I will be disappointed. If you haven't tried a kickboxing class I really reccomend you do so -after all you have nothing to lose........

I hope this helps your search and gook luck!!

Andrew James

CNYMike
11-05-2004, 04:19 PM
Well I looked around, and being where I am there is only one school for each martial art style, and even then not every martial art is represented.

I looked at Kung Fu, Hapkido, and Ju Jitsu. I was disappointed with all three. I could have looked at more but I just thought it was pointless and felt a bit like I'd wasted my time!

While I may want to do something with more variety, the fact is that where I live, there are no classes that come anywhere close to the quality of my Aikido class.

There are varying reasons for this. I think mainly because everyone who does Aikido seems to be around my age (26) or older. There's probably also a shortage of qualified instructors in this part of the world.

After being in a strict-ish environment I was appalled by how in the other classes I watched, people talked and gossiped, there were some standing around doing nothing at all, another class someone's kids kept running in and talking to their Mum.

Added to this, the Kung Fu and Ju Jitsu classes barely did 3 moves in the one class (BORING!!). Hapkido looked kinda cool but was a bit too commercial for my liking. And none of them seemed to have a particular high standard.

Luckily for me, my partner was an instructor when he was younger so he could help me guage the kind of standard. He was shaking his head throughout all of the classes and nearly got up there to show them how to do it!

So... after all that, I'm continuing with Aikido because I'd rather learn something properly and after I've had a couple of weeks break I feel a renewed energy (I think also being exam time I was slightly batty too). My partner is also going to teach me some kicks and punches.

In the end its all good. I'm going to stick with Aikido and learn some extra moves on the side. Like someone else said, you can encorporate punches and kicks in if you want anyway.

I said right from the start if I look around and decide to stay with Aikido then that's a plus, and at least now I know!!

Thanks everyone for your help :)


Well, Olivia, I'm glad you're staying with Aikido, but when it comes to judging other schools and arts, the best bit of advice is, "Don't judge a book by its cover."

Back in the '80s, I was a strict karate traditionalist, so when I checked out some dojos in Bangor, Maine, I wasn't all that impressed with the one guy who wore black gis and did forms that *I* had never seen before. But when I started school there, Sensei Bruce was pretty much the only game in town, and training under him helped open my eyes to different ways of doing things.

Of course, we jump ahead to 1997, when I started Kali, and that lands me with one foot in the t-shirts-and-sweat-pants set; I think my experience in Maine left me more open to that.

Now, I didn't visit any of the schools you went to, and so I don't know what the standard is. But when looking into cross-training, you have to take the class for what it is, and not try and judge it too harshly by what you do in Aikido class. I made that mistake in the '80s when I dropped out of Aikido because I didn't think it was as intense as karate. Now I appreciate it more (and oddly enough, this time around its one of my more intense workouts).

I'm fond of thinking "Aikido is what it is and does what it does;" that's true of everything else, and of the people who teach them. Take it for what it is, not what you want it to be.

.... now, if someone could tell me that the above ramblings make any sense at all, I would appreciate it.

:o :D :cool:

Kevin Leavitt
11-06-2004, 07:24 AM
I have moved around alot being in the military. I have found each dojo to be different and offer different things. That said, it is hard to find a "good fit". That doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the other dojos, just doesn't work for you.

My first dojo was sort of like my first date. Wow, you look back and remember it with great memories. Today, if I were to go back 12 years later it would not be the same because I have grown and see things differently than I did then. Not anything wrong with it, just you need different things at different times.

My sensei past away several years ago. He was on the path and viewed martial arts and training to be a evolutionary path. He grew up in Japan and studied for 20 some years, while he stuck to classical japanese structure and forms, he was constantly re-interpreting and evolving his approach and emphasis as he himself grew.

He encouraged us to explore other arts and other dojos.

Where I am at today, well, I am stuck on a small Army post in Germany where there is no game in town. So being I am starting my own program so I can train and others can to. Sometimes you have to define your own path in absence of one.

Good luck finding a school. Finding a good fit is hard to do, especially as you get older and set in your ways!!! Every school has something to teach you...even if it is to serve as a bad example :)

Sanshouaikikai
06-06-2005, 11:50 PM
Hey...if you like aikido but are into the kicking and punching...see if there are any aikijujitsu schools around. If not...see if there are any Nihon Goshen Aikido (which I think is only in the U.S., I dunno for sure) schools. In NGA and Aikijujitsu, they teach a lot of strikes, defenses against those strikes, and how to get out of headlocks and common street attacks. It's pretty good. You may like it! Then again...you could always cross train like I do!!!

aikigirl10
06-12-2005, 06:08 PM
I recommend you take Shaolin kung fu. When i started taking it , it totally changed my perspective on self defense. We do punches, kicks and about a million weapons styles. (everything from nunchaku to sai) But i strongly recommend sticking with your aikido training as well. It may not seem like aikido is that effective right now , but you've only done it for a couple months. Give it time. In our dojo , we've actually practiced doing snap kicks , just as something extra to know. You would be surprised at how much aikido helps you grow as a person.

hope this helps. :)
-paige

ALine Filipe
06-15-2005, 04:26 AM
I'm not quite sure if you know exactly what have you done at class...
I understand that if you want to give and take kicks, punches and take a high jump maybe aikido just doesn't fit you. On the other side you can't say you have seen it all in a couple of months... I'm also a rookie (i've 4 years of practice) and i learn every day something new... But i love it! that's what i like the most: knowing that i can always disarm someone without hurting him.

what if it's your cousin who's attacking you? would you gave him kicks and punches so that he can wake at the hospital and find he was wrong??? I think that that's not the better way but that's what i think.

Aikido isn't a way of knocking down... (When i want to do that i play PS or something like that :P) Aikido is the way of harmony, that when you don't have any other choice but to fight you can always defend yourself by disarming the oponent.

It's a marcial art, no doubt about it but the main thing is that you don't need to be strong and to have a bunch of muscles to do it.

good luck ;)

M.E.Perona
06-17-2005, 09:17 PM
However.... I really want to do some kicking and punching, a bit more with REAL weapons (i.e. not ones that are obsolete)etc.... I haven't ever really got a buzz out of Aikido.


As for the "obsolete" weapons : have you ever noticed how similar a bokken and a baseball bat could be ?

Jorx
06-18-2005, 04:26 AM
Why not take Thaiboxing? Mixed-Martial-Arts class? Brazilian JiuJitsu?

For practical weapons... www.dogbrothers.com

CNYMike
06-18-2005, 10:29 AM
Why not take Thaiboxing? Mixed-Martial-Arts class? Brazilian JiuJitsu?

For practical weapons... www.dogbrothers.com

http://www.inosanto.com might be a better place to look for someone new to "practical weapons;" the Dog Brothers are a bit extreme, more for people who can handle full contact, not just starting.

justinc
06-18-2005, 01:44 PM
To throw in my AUD$0.02. I study both Hapkido and Aikido (as well as TaeKwonDo). I'm a black belt candidate in HKD but not as advanced in Aikido yet, so I have a reasonable understanding of the differences between them. I find your comment about HKD seeming too "commercial" to be quite strange. Perhaps you ran into one of the McDojang TKD schools that also do a few minor joint locks and call themselves Hapkido?

The biggest difference is the teacher. Hapkido and Aikido actually mean the same thing: Hap is the korean equivalent of Ai. On the Hapkido side, there is a huuuuge variation in the teaching. From the dojangs I've visited in my travels, some are basically just TKD with a few joint locks, others are almost full ground fighting with barely any kicking, and further, other schools are a mix of all three. If you look at the top Hapkido practitioners, particularly the first generation students of Yong Sool Choi, like Ji Han Jae, Bong Soo Han and Kwang Sik Myung, you'll see that there is barely any differences between them and the top Aikido students. Ikkyo, Nikyo, Sankyo, Shihonage, iriminage etc etc. They're all there in Hapkido too. The movements are identical, just that there is extra to the cirriculum, such as striking and more weapons.

In almost every case of the HKD schools I've looked at/visited, Hapkido classes are far less formal than Aikido. There is a lot more interaction between those on the mat during class time. This, I believe, comes from the differences between Japanese and Korean cultures. Korean culture is far less formal than Japanese. If you're thinking that everything should always be very strict, with no talking at all, except for the instructor, then the moives have been too much of an influence in what you think is "proper" for a training centre to have.

As for kicking and punching, ask yourself why you want to do those. As an admitted short person, they're not as useful as you think they might be. I'm tall - 191cm. Kicking and punching is useful to me because I can keep people at a long range before they can do something to me. However, that short person, once they get inside my kicking range can trowel me pretty easily. My CoG is much higher than their's so throws are much easier. The longer limbs make for better leverage to pin with etc. If you're thinking that punching and kicking will help you as a shorter person, then you have the wrong idea about how they would be used in a martial situation. In addition, if you think that they would provide you with a more intense cardio workout, wait until you get a little more advanced in Aikido and start getting tossed across the mat. My most exhausting workouts have always been Aikido related, not the hour straight of kicking/punching in TKD.

The most important rule to remember is "if you are not enjoying yourself, why are you there?" Find a class and teacher that you like and learn whatever they are teaching you, regardless of martial arts style. If you learn the principles of that art rather than the techniques, you'll find that those principles can be applied to any situation that you find yourself in. Jo, well a broom handle or spade works in exactly the same way. Sword, well a cricket bat works in almost the same way too. A flexible weapon like a belt or rope acts like something between a jo and empty hand. Walking stick is just a short Jo, but has a few other fun things you can do with it, but it's still just a truncated Jo - all the same principles apply. That said, wait until you get a little more advanced in Aikido, and you'll see that the kicks and punches are all there, just cleverly disguised in this thing called atemi, and not individually practiced.

Launceston is a fairly small place, so as you have noted, the options may be quite limited for seeing the variations that each art provides. The places that advertise in the YellowPages are typically not the places you want to focus on looking at. Talk to your Aikido teacher. Teachers tend to know a lot more about the schools around and other teachers in other arts that are not advertised. Maybe he/she can point you at a smaller, less public school that you could look at.

Either way, if you'd like to chat more on the various arts, I'm happy to chat privately in PMs or email.

samurai_kenshin
06-18-2005, 04:03 PM
took me around seven years to find out what MA was right for me. I tried Karate, Shaolin Kempo, and even Kung Fu, but nothing was right until I found Aikido. Even now, I do Kendo, Iaido and archery, so you see, two months ain't gonna cut it, buddy.

stephenadams
06-21-2005, 09:01 AM
I've done other styles that have plenty of punching and kicking, JKD and Ju Jitsu. The reason I stopped doing JKD is I found a lot of people there, especially the younger students loved sparring, that's all they wanted to do. So all I found was that I didn't have time to work on technique, just trying to not get hit (which happened a lot), what I like about Aikido is the focus on technique, which as you get better will produce a hard style, through fast powerful techniques you don't need to be able to punch and kick all the time.
Its a question on mindsets, do you want to beat you opponent through seeing who can punch the hardest and for the longest time (remember punch/kicking soon wares you out) or do you want to use a quick, but powerful technique that will quickly end a confrontation. I for one don't want to be spending time duking it out with someone.

glennage
06-22-2005, 01:11 PM
cross training is becoming much more popular now as no single martial art can give you everything you may need to protect yourself. however don't get too wrapped up in punching and kicking, groundwork is just as important. we do a lot of atemi and groundwork to compliment our aikido as well as defense from modern weapons like knives, bats, guns (at close range of course!) so i feel that i do get a lot from where i train. so maybe its about finding the right place and style that suits you as cross training can be a lot to take in if you get carried away. my best advice would be to dabble in some boxing as well as your aikido, no one punches like a boxer! as for kicking, best to keep your balance and take uke's instead ;)
hope you get what you want from your training

CNYMike
06-26-2005, 08:50 PM
..... The reason I stopped doing JKD is I found a lot of people there, especially the younger students loved sparring, that's all they wanted to do. So all I found was that I didn't have time to work on technique, just trying to not get hit (which happened a lot) .....


I guess it depends on what offshoot of JKD you're a part of. I'm not a JKD person, but both of my main Kali instructors, Guro Kevin Seaman and Guro Andy Astle, are also Jun Fan/JKD instructors under Sifu Dan Inosanto, and from what I've gathered, their approach is slightly different from what you are describing. AFAIK, there's a lot of ground to cover before they teach you how to spar. And yes, you have to learn how to do it so you can play with the techniques in a random setting. If you start off full boar kicking and punching, the fight-or-fight reflex takes over and you learn nothing.

I checked the instructor list at inosanto.com and there doesn't appear to be a Jun Fan/JKD person from his lineage outside of London. But if you still retain an interest in it, start looking here:

http://inosanto.com/wrapper.php?file=instructorlist.php

Good luck.

stratos patsakis
07-17-2005, 09:24 PM
aikido is a very beautifull martial art!i don't practise aikido but i really want to find time to start!from the moment i 've read the book of master tohei's ki in daily life,and found some videos of master tohei's i fell in love with aikido!!i beleive it is a very good martial art.i teach taekwondo and hwal moo hapkido in greece.in hwal moo hapkido we have a lot of thai boxing,groundfighting and of course hundreds of teqniques.we do a lot of sparring on thai boxing and ground fighting and freefight.you know like the mixed martial arts fights.it is very good to practise in these things but a lot of painfull too.you need to some time to learn to spar with thai boxing and then ground fighting.and after a while to combine them and you spar with no rules at all.i believe that you must not stop aikido continue practising and as for the kicks and punches,i believe that many aikido masters have thought to teach aikido with punches and kicks.a good example is steven seagal!as for the weapons we use them too but none weapon is real except the sword but after the black belt we use real swords.it is very dangerous you know.so practise some time and you will see in the future if it's good or not!

Roy
07-17-2005, 10:45 PM
Maybe you should check out Aikijujutsu? Basically its aikido with strikes. myself, having learned Jujitsu and judo, I don't recommend kicking, unless you are supper fast, you will be dropped down hard!