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jxa127
03-21-2001, 01:39 PM
All,

I've been having some interesting experiences lately that have convinced me that my study of Aikido has be exceptionally beneficial.

Here's a simple example: Last night, I spent a couple hours working through a problem with my fiancée. It wasn't a particularly huge problem, but it was something that we had to deal with before things got out of hand.

I'll not go into the details, 'cause that's private stuff, but it basically revolved around a conflict between her needs/expectations and my priorities.

First some background: I've been studying Aikido for about a year and a half. I did some research and sought out an Aikido dojo because the art seemed to mirror/complement changes that I'd been going through over the previous four years or so. Still, I was surprised by the depth of the art and by how much it has become a part of my life.

Back to my particular conflict: A few years ago, I would have either acquiesced to the demands of the person with whom I had a conflict, or dug in and resisted because the other person was being unfair. Now, I find myself taking a more aiki approach to conflicts. From the beginning, last night, I took a different approach. She brought up the problem and I reassured her that I agreed it was a problem. Now we were joined. I had made a connection and we couldn't really fight, since we both agreed.

The discussion that followed doesn't have an exact analogy to an Aikido technique, but there were some similarities. I remained open to what she was offering, even when it was a little painful. I think my openness helped her to remain open to my points. The result in the end was that she agreed to cut me some slack, and I agreed to rearrange my priorities to better accommodate her needs. We are well on our way to resolving the problem, and we have a workable solution. What could have been a nasty altercation turned out to be a productive discussion.

The most amazing thing to me was that I didn't go into the discussion thinking, "Now I've got to do Aikido-type conflict management." It was only later, as I was driving home, that I realized that I had applied Aikido principles to the conflict. I had initially joined with my partner, was sensitive to her, kept my center, was honest with myself (and her), and dealt directly with that which could hurt me.

It is comforting to me to know that the skills on the mat transfer well to situations off the mat. I know I have a lot of work to do, but as a relative beginner, at least I am starting to truly understand why I train.

-Drew Ames

DiNalt
03-21-2001, 02:15 PM
I hope it works out for you.

jxa127
03-21-2001, 02:23 PM
Thanks, but like I said, it wasn't a huge problem, just something that we had to work out.

It was more along the lines of "who's going to do the dishes" than any sort of a really deep, soul-wretching problem. Still, it was an important issue and it needed to be handled with care -- so it didn't becomre a soul-wretching problem. :-)

-Drew Ames

Jay Cirillo
03-21-2001, 03:47 PM
Glad to hear it worked out. I too have been trying to find ways to apply the Aiki principles in various aspects of my life as well...it pops up more than you might think.

It has certainly helped me with my girlfriend as well. When we disagree, I can just go for the pressure points. :D Just kidding.

Aikidoka2000
03-22-2001, 10:57 AM
That story is a perfect example of Aikido in action!
Thank you for sharing that m( )m
There is a really nice video series called
"The magic of conflict" which deals with using aikido principles in every day life. I highly recommend it. It is by Thomas Crum.
Here are is a link on the subject.
http://www.aikiworks.com/html/magicofcon.html
If you live in Los Angeles, the Video series is available for free rental at the Glendale public library.
-Tomu

Dajo251
03-22-2001, 12:32 PM
When I saw this post I thought you ment it does work in a physical situation but you ment it in a mental way. Aikido is a huge part of my life now I am 16 and have been doing it for two years but it has helped me with my temper. Before I started studying aikido if some one made me argry I would let my temper get the best of me but since I've been doing aikido I let a lot more slip. But as to my first statement about using aikido in a physical situation this after noon in fact about 30 mineuts ago I was forced to use aikido in a self defense situation to day at lunch. I sat down at a table with friends of mine and I was eating when I apparently sat down in someones seat. The persons who seat I sat in was slightly ticked off so he began by using some leud language. I calmly told him that if he went to get a chair he could have his seat back. He left for about 30 seconds and returned and promptly told me to get the fu@k out of his seat. After that he tried pulling me off the chair by force so I allowed him to do so I stood up and gently applied a sankyo variation just enough for him to let go. Needless to say after that he left me alone and I sat down and finished my lunch. I am not a combative person but I was pushed into this confrontation. This was the first time I was forced to use my aikido for self defens.
(gotto go I actually wrote this in my computer class)

DiNalt
03-22-2001, 01:26 PM
Dajo251 wrote:
After that he tried pulling me off the chair by force so I allowed him to do so I stood up and gently applied a sankyo variation just enough for him to let go. Needless to say after that he left me alone and I sat down and finished my lunch. I am not a combative person but I was pushed into this confrontation.

Did he say "ow" and stand on his tiptoes ?

Dajo251
03-23-2001, 07:00 AM
He actually said "ow" more than once and yes he did go up on to his tip toes(would write more but I am in class again)

The One
03-23-2001, 06:57 PM
Heh, I'm at home now but I just wanted to say that I was reading some threads on this forum in class today and actually read some everyday during my study bell which is in a keyboarding class. I was gonna post something today but I didn't have enough time. Maybe I'll post something during class monday.

Anyway so this post won't be off-topic: I just wanna ask, how big was the guy? Is he bigger and stronger than you? Are you worried that he will bother you again, and possibly bring freinds? Were you thinking that he might retaliate after you released him or even while you were restraining him?

I haven't yet had to use martial arts in an actual self defense situation, but these would be the things I would consider before or while defending myself.

Chocolateuke
03-24-2001, 11:06 AM
Hey dojo 251 you and I are in the same boat! before Aikido ( when I was 11) I would get really frustraited and mad and arguments would reach the Stars they got that hight. Now I started Aikido when I was 12 and then I am now 16 ( got my licence!! Aikido has help my driving to:) anyhow now i am MORE calm not all teh way yet. I have use sankajo at school once when a kid was pretending to throw punces. I first i ingored him and then he got mad that I wouldnt flich so later he stared to poke me and mess my hair ( my hair is always a mess!) I asked him to stop but he wouldnt and I just graped his fingers and read them ( at the dojo we start Sankajo by reading the ukes palm:) and he howled in pain and I asked him to stop and stop he did. he didnt get up because I didnt want him up! anyhow I aggree Aikido helps my life more than I would care to think!

As for you Jax Great job! I clap loudly at your courage and determination to solve the problem! I still just look at the ground when it comes to girls :)

lt-rentaroo
03-24-2001, 01:40 PM
Hello,

Well, I've used Aikido successfully in both mental and physical situations. Mentally, I've used it during conversations with my wife. The only problem is that she also studies Aikido (that is how we met) and always ends up pulling a mental Henka Waza on me :)

Physically, I've used Aikido on my younger brother on several occasions. Let me clarify here, my younger brother is about two or three inches taller than me and about 70 pounds heavier (isn't it funny how your little brother almost always ends up larger than you). Sankyo worked well, and yes he rose up onto his toes and said OW! repeatedly as I tossed him on his bum. Of course, it was all in good fun. Have a good day!

Brian
03-24-2001, 03:46 PM
lt-rentaroo wrote:

(isn't it funny how your little brother almost always ends up larger than you).


*GRIN* My younger brother is much larger than me. Before I began aikido, I was limited to wrestling him to the ground and punching him repeatedly, but, combined with his extra-fleshy covering and his extremely high pain tolerance, it didn't affect him at all. In fact, when he experiences most pain, he laughs. Laughs! But, as I found out, joint locks affect him in exactly the same manner that they affect uke. Mwa-ha-ha...

lt-rentaroo
03-24-2001, 05:03 PM
Brian,

I understand your situation. My younger brother also laughed after I wrestled him to the ground and thumped him on the head repeatedly. Actually, the whole thing would be a kidney / top of the head punch fest (in good fun of course and from both sides). Must be something about his "extra fleshy covering" that made him resistant to the strikes.

You're right, the joint locks work very well. I've found that he is really susceptible to Nikyo and Kotegaeshi. You know, since I've moved away from home, I just don't get that realistic practice that I used to get. Hey, maybe younger brothers are good for something :)

[Edited by lt-rentaroo on March 24, 2001 at 04:06pm]

Dajo251
03-26-2001, 07:52 AM
In response to the qusetion of Kai's weither I was afraid of retaliation etc. first the kid was bigger than I and no I dont fear retaliation because the way he backed off after I apllied the sankyo was how shall I say like a dog retreating with its tail between its legs. (also sorry I did not get back on this post sooner but my computer hasent been working right)

Dajo251
03-26-2001, 07:56 AM
I should of written this in my last post but I am a younger brother who is bigger than my older brother but one problem is that both he and I train in aikido so when we "fight" it can get pretty interesting. usualy it ends up just the two of us circling one and other not wanting to make a move that would leave an opening. unfortunatly when we do get into it he usualy comes out on top.

Dan

Nick
03-26-2001, 01:53 PM
Glad to hear I'm not the only one on here using sankyo on high schoolers-- a little while back in math class, we were sitting waiting for the bell to ring, and a kid comes up to me, starts trying to hit me, yelling "Kidney punch!" repeatedly. I blocked him and asked him to stop, but he wouldn't. He wasn't really trying to hurt me or be aggressive, but it was getting obnoxious. Finally I caught one of his wrists, and because his hand was in a fist and he was pulling away I only got his thumb, but put on a light sankyo. He hopped up going "ow ow ow" and I let him go, and the teacher came over to tell him to sit down. Now, am I necessarily proud? Of course not. He wasn't out to harm, really more just to annoy. In my... angrier days (IE ante-aikido) I probably would have popped him in the face and thrown him into the wall... so while I'm unhappy that I did have to use aikido, if even only for a small problem, I'm glad I had the restraint to use only as much as I did. Ever since then, that kid has been oddl nice to me...

In closing, fighting sucks. I wouldn't really call my situation a fight, but it was more conflict then I need in a math class, and really, in my life.

Peace,

Nick

DiNalt
03-26-2001, 02:12 PM
Nick wrote:
Glad to hear I'm not the only one on here using sankyo on high schoolers-- a little while back in math class, we were sitting waiting for the bell to ring, and a kid comes up to me, starts trying to hit me, yelling "Kidney punch!" repeatedly. I blocked him and asked him to stop, but he wouldn't. He wasn't really trying to hurt me or be aggressive, but it was getting obnoxious. Finally I caught one of his wrists, and because his hand was in a fist and he was pulling away I only got his thumb, but put on a light sankyo. He hopped up going "ow ow ow" and I let him go, and the teacher came over to tell him to sit down. Now, am I necessarily proud? Of course not. He wasn't out to harm, really more just to annoy. In my... angrier days (IE ante-aikido) I probably would have popped him in the face and thrown him into the wall... so while I'm unhappy that I did have to use aikido, if even only for a small problem, I'm glad I had the restraint to use only as much as I did. Ever since then, that kid has been oddl nice to me...

In closing, fighting sucks. I wouldn't really call my situation a fight, but it was more conflict then I need in a math class, and really, in my life.

Peace,

Nick

I think this should be called "the rite of passage syndrome".

A lot of people need to be caused physical pain at least once in their life so that they would learn not to be an arrogant asshole and know their limit.

The difference between their behavior "before" and "after" is _always_ striking.

Dajo251
03-26-2001, 06:52 PM
Nick I am glad to here that this student is now nice to you but the one that I was forced to use sankyo on has yet to back off and be nice. The event I described happened last thursday and it is now monday and today during gym class he and I nearly got into it. We were playing a game of simalare to team hand ball and he decided he was going to try and push me around so after about 3 blatant attemps to knock me down he charged me and I irimed off line and aided him in nearly running into a wall. Upon this occurence he turned and through a punch at me which I easaly avoided but before I needed to retaliate th gym teacher came in and broke it up, on the plus side I did get a penalty shot. I realy dont have a problem with this kid, and I dont want to fight but if this goes on he will leave me no alternative. I am going at this in as much of an aikido way as I can. I dont think that talking to him will work any advice from anyone out there.

Dan

The One
03-26-2001, 07:09 PM
Just a question, Dajo. How much bigger or stronger are you than this guy? Or are you are smaller and weaker than him? Because I have had similar problems with a larger fellow classmate of mine. Though I know he doesn't intend much harm, he does play too rough and won't hesitate to bang my head against the floor or the lockers(as he's once done before) in a "playful" wrestling match. I've tried stepping off the line and slow and easy iriminages when he tries to tackle me but they just haven't been too effective. As in not working at all. I guess I just need practice.


And about your problem. If you can avoid conflict, by all means do it. But if he won't leave you alone and know that he's going to try to seriously hurt you, then defend yourself. And don't stop till you've damaged his ego enough for him to leave you alone.

Nick
03-26-2001, 08:30 PM
Now, if I was a teacher or responsible adult, I'd tell you to report the incidents to a teacher or administrator. But, being not completely unlike you, I know that that is not usually a considered course of action, due to the loss of face and the fact that, love em or hate em, they can't do much to stop bullying (though they may not be the smartest lads, bullies can usually find a way to harass you)... though I am no psychiatrist, if there was a fight that could not be avoided, then I would prefer to head into it irimi, rather than waiting and turning tenkan. At some points when being a pacifist just doesn't stop conflict, then you esclating it out of nowhere can throw them off... quick example, last year a kid I knew would often say things like "man, I'm gonna kick your @ss if..." insert just about anything. The basic point was that he wanted to show me he was a real tough guy. Finally, one day he threatened that he was gonna knock me out, and I simply said "Ok. Let's go." This was before my aiki days, but I think I would have reacted the same way today... he muttered something to the effect of "umm uhh not erm uhh now" and walked off.

I'm not saying it's okay to fight, but if you can't blend with him tenkan, throw in some irimi... just be careful of what happens afterwards... big bullies can often have bigger bully friends.

Hope everything works out for you--

Nick

DiNalt
03-26-2001, 09:53 PM
Dajo251 wrote:
I am going at this in as much of an aikido way as I can. I dont think that talking to him will work any advice from anyone out there.

Dan


My buddy in high school was "playfully harassed" by a much larger guy who was sitting behind him.
The moron got him into a headlock and started pulling him out of his seat...

So he retaliated by "playfully" punching the big guy in the nose (backwards).

Not enough to cause serious damage, but enough to work as a "cheek-slap-wake-up-what-the-hell-are-you-doing" kind of thing.

[Edited by DiNalt on March 26, 2001 at 09:00pm]

Dajo251
03-27-2001, 07:06 PM
In truth we are about the same size he is about two inches shorter than me and we are built simalarly. I am finding it hard to try to end this in a peacefull way and it may just result in the two of us going at it. Gee I hope it doesnt come to this.

jxa127
03-28-2001, 10:43 AM
Dan wrote,

I am finding it hard to try to end this in a peacefull way and it may just result in the two of us going at it. Gee I hope it doesnt come to this.


Let me give you a little background before I give my advice. I'm 27 years old, and I've been out of high school for ten years. That probably seems like a lot. I guess you might consider me a responsible adult, but I was in my share of fights during high school.

First, tell your parents. I don't know what kind of relationship you have with them, but it's important that they know what's going on. They may even have some good advice for you. My parents usually did. At the very least, they won't be surprised when they get a call from the prinicpal or the cops. (I'm dead serious.)

Second, talk to your sensei. He or she will be in a much better place to give you advice than any of us here.

Third, ignore the guy. You've done a pretty good job of trying to handle things in an aiki way so far. Keep it up. Let's say you go at it with this guy and humiliate him by throwing a nice nikyo and pinning him. He may well show up the next day at school with a gun and try to take you out that way.

The essence of Aikido (as I understand it) is to resolve conflict peacefully and in such a way that the attacker realizes his mistake.

Forth, if you've gotta go at it, then take the initiative. A common misconception of Aikido is that it is a defensive art. That's not completely true. Sometimes nage initiates the action. You may be able to cut off his actions by simply acting the moment he does or sooner. For example, if he comes at you with the intention of knocking you down, don't just wait for him and then tenkan, but go to him and put a hand or fist in his face. He'll either run into it or fall back, or both.

I'm not telling you to pick a fight, but you should react to his intention, not his actions. Be ready, be confident, project ki, and stay peaceful. Acknowledge that there's a connection between you two, even if you aren't fighting, or even touching, and try to work with that energy. Blend with his attack early on, and you may just stop it before it starts.

Good luck, but please be careful. Even if you sucessfully match his attack, you may still end up suspended or even charged as a criminal. Schools are getting very intolerant of any violence in light of the recent school shootings.

Lastly, try talking to him. The next time he tries something, simply ask him (without a lot of emotion) why he's doing that. You may be surprised at the results.

Let us know how things work out,

-Drew Ames

[Edited by jxa127 on March 28, 2001 at 11:24am]

CraigJamieson
03-28-2001, 01:50 PM
Hey Dan ,i hope everything works out, let us all know how things go ok? On the subject of resolving conflict, it mostly doesnt work.If some @sshole is stupid enough to want to fight anyway you are gonna be hard pushed to talk him/her out of it.
When out one night one of the aforementioned tried to throw me a left hook(he thought i was someone else!!!?)I used the irimi version of tenchinage and put him on his backside, hard, he was so shocked to find himself there that he just ran away.No need for excessive force, just bruise their ego a bit.O sensei was a bit of a tough guy in his day anyway right?
Peace
Craig,Scotland

chrisinbrasil
03-28-2001, 02:42 PM
jxa127 wrote:
Dan wrote,

I am finding it hard to try to end this in a peacefull way and it may just result in the two of us going at it. Gee I hope it doesnt come to this.


Third, ignore the guy. You've done a pretty good job of trying to handle things in an aiki way so far. Keep it up. Let's say you go at it with this guy and humiliate him by throwing a nice nikyo and pinning him. He may well show up the next day at school with a gun and try to take you out that way.
Let us know how things work out,

-Drew Ames

[Edited by jxa127 on March 28, 2001 at 11:24am]

Hi my friend. I am sure that Mr. Drew Ames is on the level and no fool, but I think this portion of his advice should be reconsidered. Ignoring a possible threat isn´t very prudent at all. You know better than we do, what exactly this guy intends (or not) to do. I think the rest of the advice is ok, but this can lead you into trouble. Sometimes ignoring the problem brings it on sooner than addressing it. I am sure that by ignoring the problem, you will put your back to the aggressor, which is quite unwise. Ignoring bad elements in hopes that they will go away is great for fairy tales, but not for self-preservation.

DiNalt
03-28-2001, 02:55 PM
chrisinbrasil wrote:
[QUOTE}
Ignoring bad elements in hopes that they will go away is great for fairy tales, but not for self-preservation.

I completely agree.
I was bullied aplenty in school, and ignoring the bully and being passive lead to more direct physical attacks.

Dajo251
03-28-2001, 07:12 PM
Well the problem has thus ben resolved I think. The resolution thankfully only resulted in three days detention but I got my point across to him. He took a swing at me after gym in the locker room so I irimed and introduced his face to a locker. Not the best move a friend of his came after me from behind but thankfully I aslo had a friend in the area who cut him off before he could get to me well to make it short he threw a few more punches at me landed one (damn it hurt too) after that I irimeid once agan and intorduce my elbow to his gutt effectvly knocking the wind out of him. And now I have three nights detention and he has the same. I do think its over now that he knows I can handle my own. On a side not my friend who intercepted the kid trying to hit me from behind is in the same boat as I . On a down not my jaw is killing me I cant believe i let him hit me hahaha.
Dan
P.S.
Thanks for all the advice from all of the people out.

Nick
03-28-2001, 08:05 PM
Dan-- I'm sorry to hear that it finally came down to violence, but I'm glad to hear that you're okay. I hope that the detentions that you got mark the end of this conflict, and you can get on with your life. If I may ask, why did this kid have a grudge on you in the first place? Any particular reason, or just bullying?

Hoping it's over,

Nick

jxa127
03-29-2001, 08:13 AM
Dan,

It sounds like you did okay. Nice use of atemiwaza. :)

Seriously, I hope our collective advice helped, but the most important thing is to listen to your heart. Glenn Matsuda Sensei from New York once told my class that the only two people who know what's going on in a relationship are the two people in it.

I do feel the need to clarify one piece of advice that I gave. When I suggested you ignore the guy, I was suggesting that you ignore him in a manner that is aware and confident, not submissive. I agree with the other posters that submissiveness can be a problem. However, if you are confident and centered, you can let a lot of stuff slide. And, if action is called for, you'll be moving from a good place.

I'm sorry you got detention, but at least things were resolved without too much fuss.

-Drew Ames