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drDalek
10-14-2004, 05:42 AM
Aikido is great for keeping your legs and hips in shape but I doubt if it has much of a conditioning effect on your cardiovascular system or if it would do anything for upper-body conditioning and strength.

I like to do a couple of sets of pushups and crunches and about 20 minutes on a stationary bike in the morning on alternating days (when I dont have Aikido).

I do about 10 super-slow knuckle pushups and another 20-25 (depending on how motivated I am) flat palm push-ups. I also do a set of about 20 straight leg lifts (to 90 degrees) to further tone my abdominals.

During my 20 minutes on the stationary bike I like to maintain a heartrate of 120-140 bpm, sometimes I pedal harder or longer when I feel motivated and energetic.

I find that my ability to focus and last an entire Aikido class has improved (I would start slacking off about 15 minutes or so before we end class which has bothered me since I started) and I have more energy and vitality just in general.

I am scared of doing weights because:

1) Pushups are waaay challenging enough already.
2) I am afraid of injuring myself (my brother still has trouble with his back from doing free-weights at a gym)
3) I dont have cheap or convenient access to machines or free-weights.

Steve Kubien
10-14-2004, 07:34 AM
You have what sounds like a really good fitness regimen. I have just started aikido after being pretty stationary for 8 years. My CV system is getting plenty of work in my dojo. Remember that your legs and hips are the biggest group of muscles in the body. By pushing them, your heart rate should get to a respectable level.

As for the weights, I think they get a bad wrap. They are perfectly safe if you work correctly with very good technique (for me, safer than aikido). When I was powerlifting, I drove a 400lbs squat and a 450lbs deadlift (at a bodyweight of 190lbs)without ever suffering an injury. My form was good and when lifting by myself, I made sure to stay in the power-cage so I could drop a lift safely. Try to hook with a powerlifting team or coach in your area for some instruction. I would avoid bodybuilding-type lifting. They're too ballistic with little control. That is how people get hurt.

You also have to know what you want to get out of lifting (mass, power, beach-bod?).

Regards,
Steve Kubien

SeiserL
10-14-2004, 08:50 AM
Run, skip rope, weights, heavy bag, push-ups, leg lifts/crunches.

Oh yea, "try" to watch the carbs, sugar, fat, and calorie intake.

ian
10-14-2004, 09:09 AM
I think its good to get outside (a nice run outside, or swim in a lake/the sea!). Swimming seems good exercise for aikido if you do it properly (using your hips and centre). Chi Gung useful. Weapons practise.

Also, I like the press ups where you clap in between each press up (dynamic motion). Much more effective than standard press ups for developing striking power and speed.

ian
10-14-2004, 09:10 AM
P.S. I won't say weights are rubbish, but they must be combined with other exercises or else you will teach your body to move its muscles in isolation and not develop the smaller muscles which are necessary to complete complex movements.

I've found weight training where you lift yourself (pull-ups, dips etc) seem to give strength without increasing body mass; its weird but its like your body knows not to put on weight or its more to lift.

Mark Mueller
10-14-2004, 09:45 AM
Check out Crossfit.com.....hands down one of the best fitness programs I have ever seen. Short, Intense and extrememly beneficial. It also addresses Ian's concern about complete complex movements.

paw
10-14-2004, 11:09 AM
P.S. I won't say weights are rubbish, but they must be combined with other exercises or else you will teach your body to move its muscles in isolation and not develop the smaller muscles which are necessary to complete complex movements.

Resistance is resistance. Your body doesn't know if you're using weights, a machine, your body, a sandbag, or tossing the guy across the street.

Depending on what your goals are, some movements are better than others.....


Regards,

Paul

Jordan Steele
10-14-2004, 01:08 PM
Exercising is key to being in shape, but is useless without a proper diet. Personally, I run 10km (a little over 6.5miles for the Americans) five times per week, lift weights 4-5 times per week and do Aikido 4 classes per week. Lots of walking as well. Simple diet, oatmeal and bananna for breakfast, fruit and protein shake mid morning, turkey sandwich and milk for lunch, nuts and/or fruit mid afternoon, meat, salad, and milk for dinner. Calorie intake for the day is 1500-2000 depending on my fitness goals at the time. No soda, no white flour (only whole grains), low fat, low sugar, and amount of calories are important. I am in great shape and realize not everybody can exercise as much as I do, but anybody can control their eating. A hour of walking is worth more than 20 minutes of intense biking.

paw
10-14-2004, 02:35 PM
Fitness in 100 words, by Crossfit (http://crossfit.com/cf-info/start-how.html)

Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat. Practice and train major lifts: Deadlift, clean, squat, presses, C&J, and snatch. Similarly, master the basics of gymnastics: pull-ups, dips, rope climb, push-ups, sit-ups, presses to handstand, pirouettes, flips, splits, and holds. Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. Regularly learn and play new sports.

Aikiscott
10-14-2004, 06:48 PM
I do tai Chi, Chi Gong, Relax, gardening (Which is harder than it sounds as I live on the side of a mountain) and the only diet I follow is eat a little of everything not a lot of anything. The only weight training I do is for my physiotherapy on my knees & wrists. other than that I occasionally do some ground fighting training after class.

thomas_dixon
10-14-2004, 06:56 PM
I suggest you stop doing knuckle push ups, they do more damage than good. (you won't be able to move your fingers eventually if you keep it up. no joke.)

I like to use a bokken (works wonders for upper body), and am considering taking Filipino Martial Arts class, and maybe...tkd..

p00kiethebear
10-14-2004, 11:24 PM
I do kenjutsu.

It's excellent as it's definitely along the lines of more repitition rather than more weight. Doing 1000 cuts is an extremely good workout. That along with continual swing cutting and kata that involve moving your entire body are excellent when done for a long time.

kironin
10-15-2004, 12:37 AM
Commute to work by mountain bike - that's about 80 miles a week of stop and go and sprinting to keep ahead and dodge cars.

at least now that it is cooling off, I am not being drenched in sweat.

Yoga

some body weight resistive training and some gymnastics

swimming

iaido

thomas_dixon
10-15-2004, 12:54 AM
Some Iaido styles and Kenjutsu styles I hear are a workout...

I've heard people say they're rather spend a whole day doing breakfalls than an hour in a certain style of iaido (Muso Shinden I think, might have been Eishin)

Bridge
10-15-2004, 06:50 AM
Go to gym once/twice a week. Doing treadmill, rower, rotex, stepper, bike. Freeweights (which are grrrreat!) and weights machines (leg press, adductor, abductor, chest press). Stability ball crunches, skipping. Heart rate goes up to 175 BPM quite frequently on the rotex and treadmill, which is faintly scary.

Karate, too. And they require you to do those knuckle (seiken) push-ups. I have a hunch they're bad for your hands too, but it's for conditioning your hands so your hand/wrist are strong enough to hit hard without buckling and so that the tendons in your 1st 2 knuckles move over when you clench a fist. Gives you discoloured crusty knuckles (removable with £30 a pot facial scrub/mask if anyone was wondering). Not very elegant, especially for ladies! Makes the backs of your arms nice and toned though, if you like wearing sleeveless items.

Aikido classes have been really good workout recently. Breakfalling lots is really taxing! And you must burn off loads of calories just picking yourself up off the floor X times per session.

willy_lee
10-15-2004, 01:26 PM
I suggest you stop doing knuckle push ups, they do more damage than good. (you won't be able to move your fingers eventually if you keep it up. no joke.)
Curious. Have you had that experience, or known someone who had?

=wl

David_francis
10-15-2004, 01:52 PM
I like to do about 500 cuts with my bokken kendo style, makes my arms go to jelly but it toughens me up. Scrunches, push ups, weights, karate and jogging.

kironin
10-15-2004, 02:03 PM
Some Iaido styles and Kenjutsu styles I hear are a workout...

I've heard people say they're rather spend a whole day doing breakfalls than an hour in a certain style of iaido (Muso Shinden I think, might have been Eishin)

try the Hassagawa Eishin chuden set continuous for an hour and your legs will be having fun. ;-) All down starting from the old style sitting method of tatehiza (you start sitting your butt on your left heel and the ball of your right foot on the ground with right knee down to the side, and you are supposed to be balance and poised to quickly launch from this position). Even more fun is the exercise of continously flowing through all ten of this kata without stopping between and maintaining full concentration.

thomas_dixon
10-15-2004, 06:22 PM
Curious. Have you had that experience, or known someone who had?

=wl

A Sifu at a dojo down the street knew a lot of fighters who can no longer write their own name.

And sadly theres no Iaido schools near me except http://makdojo.com/makiai.html

and it's 40 miles away

kironin
10-15-2004, 06:33 PM
And sadly theres no Iaido schools near me except http://makdojo.com/makiai.html

and it's 40 miles away


I was about to say 40 miles isn't far but then I read the lineage of the Iaido there and I would say 5 miles would be too far for such a mish-mash made up style with a weird name (for Japanese).
:yuck:

thomas_dixon
10-15-2004, 06:56 PM
http://makdojo.com/makiai.htm

my bad

Chris Li
10-15-2004, 08:31 PM
I was about to say 40 miles isn't far but then I read the lineage of the Iaido there and I would say 5 miles would be too far for such a mish-mash made up style with a weird name (for Japanese).
:yuck:

I don't know, as long as they're clear about where it came from and how it started it isn't any worse then practicing a mish-mash made up style with a weird name like Aikido.

Wasn't every school a mish-mash made up style at some point?

Best,

Chris

xuzen
10-15-2004, 10:02 PM
For cardio - a healthy dose of randori, jiyu waza and ukemi

For upper body strength - Bokken practice

For lower body - randori, jiyu waza and suwari waza techniques

For abs - Back breakfalls, eat less carbo

Boon.

willy_lee
10-16-2004, 12:49 AM
A Sifu at a dojo down the street knew a lot of fighters who can no longer write their own name.
Ah, but was that because of the knuckle pushups, or because they got hit too much in the head? :)

Seriously, it just seems really unlikely to me. You're talking about making a fist and doing pushups on them right? I don't understand how that could cause long-term finger damage.

=wl

Infamousapa
10-16-2004, 01:16 AM
I Have Great Sex 247!! Keeps Me Fit And Great Cardiovascular..

kironin
10-16-2004, 01:48 AM
I don't know, as long as they're clear about where it came from and how it started it isn't any worse then practicing a mish-mash made up style with a weird name like Aikido.


this is so off-base and so off-topic I am not going to respond.

I am far from being a koryu hardliner anyway.

giriasis
10-16-2004, 09:15 PM
I was about to say 40 miles isn't far but then I read the lineage of the Iaido there and I would say 5 miles would be too far for such a mish-mash made up style with a weird name (for Japanese).
:yuck:

Craig, just to let you know that at this dojo the different arts are not taught in one combined form and call it "aikido". Each art is taught as a separate martial art, by different sensei each with a different lineage. Their Aikido lineage is descended from Yamada Sensei via Graziano Sensei, and their aikido is pretty good. I've also trained with Grady Lane, a former student of Graziano and who is currently part of the USAF, and his aikido is centered, strong and well balance. It's a great testiment to the instruction he has received. I actually can comment on their aikido be I have actually trained with the folks of Melbourne Aikikai a couple times while visiting my parents. I can't issue an opinion about the Judo or Iaido because I haven't trained in those arts nor have takend one of the classes, but the Karate class looked like solid karate-do.

Their school is hardly :yuck: but more like :cool:

(p.s. Jun, sorry I'm letting get this off-topic, but I can't let such a decent dojo get blasted on the net.)

Chris Li
10-16-2004, 10:18 PM
this is so off-base and so off-topic I am not going to respond.

I am far from being a koryu hardliner anyway.

Well, it certainly is off topic - but then it was when you introduced the subject into the thread as well. As for off-base, well, you'd have to explain that one to me.

Best,

Chris

vanstretch
10-16-2004, 11:12 PM
yeah I vote for sex as a great workout, but its not "work",its just great! I also have to say that the warmups prior to class serve a great many purposes; they are all tai-sabakis, they establish good foot/hand work, they warm up the body to do the same movements that come from the warm up roster. They "wring the crust off", and get the joints,and tendons ready for the pins. I could go on and on, but I am really liking the aikido warmups, and feel that they give all the "secrets" of our art away to us. As for after class training, I like doing different things. I like seing how long I can hang from a chin-up bar with one hand, I like doing stretches all the time, and anything that will serve to make me more fluid. So back to sex-its great!

kironin
10-16-2004, 11:28 PM
I can't issue an opinion about the Judo or Iaido because I haven't trained in those arts nor have takend one of the classes,

IF you actually read what was being said you would have understood that the art being discussed was Iaido NOT Aikido. I made absolutely no reference to the Aikido club nor did the person I was replying to refer to anything but Iaido. There are some pretty big red flags on that Iaido page that would make me avoid it like the plague. If someone else wishes to study the "traditional" iaido style of "big sword,empty mind", go have fun, I can hardly stop them. I was just expressing my own honest reaction to what I read. Thomas is free to ignore me.

I expect reading some of the material at koryu (http://www.koryu.com/) is better than me attempting any explanation for anyone who is really interested.

now back to the topic...
:cool:

Paula Lydon
10-17-2004, 09:12 AM
~~Yoga, Tai Chi, light weight training, crunches daily, push-ups and 15 to 20 minutes of random, flowing movement~~Ok...I'm tired...

taras
10-17-2004, 10:33 AM
if I can help it I walk instead of using transport.

thomas_dixon
10-17-2004, 04:42 PM
Seriously, it just seems really unlikely to me. You're talking about making a fist and doing pushups on them right? I don't understand how that could cause long-term finger damage.

No thats fist push ups to my knowledge...

Knuckle push ups are actual push ups on your knuckles (joints)

The stress is causes on the joints, and the wear of having your whole body weight on them degerates the cartilage inbetween that cusions the bones.

vjw
10-18-2004, 03:54 PM
For anyone interested in fitness training, go to http://acefitness.infopop.net/3/OpenTopic and ask the experts from the American Council on Exercise.

Here’s my two pennies worth on posts made in this thread:

During my 20 minutes on the stationary bike I like to maintain a heartrate of 120-140 bpm, sometimes I pedal harder or longer when I feel motivated and energetic.

To estimate your heart rate bpm for training you can use the following formula:
220 – age x 60 to 90%

The lower part of the range should be used for your warm up and cool down period, but to improve your cardiorespiratory fitness, try and stay in the 70 – 85 % range for the middle part of your cardio workout. For a 40 year old, 70 % would give you a target of 140 bpm ( 220 – 40 x .70 = 126).

Or use the Rate of Perceived Exertion:

0 = Nothing at all
3 = Moderate
5 = Strong
7 = Very strong
10 = Maximal

I would avoid bodybuilding-type lifting. They're too ballistic with little control.
Actually, bodybuilding exercises are not ballistic at all. They are most often done slowly with strict form. Stick with weights with which you can manage 10 – 12 reps using strict form.

I won't say weights are rubbish, but they must be combined with other exercises or else you will teach your body to move its muscles in isolation and not develop the smaller muscles which are necessary to complete complex movements.

Machines often exercise muscles in isolation. Sometimes this is an advantage. Machines also allow you to safely use higher weights. But to train those muscles that help stabilize the body, it is best to use free weights. But do not go heavy without a training partner to support you.

An hour of walking is worth more than 20 minutes of intense biking.

Unless you walk fast enough to get your heart rate up to 75 - 85% of max, it is not going to improve your cardio respiratory fitness as well as an intense bike ride.