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kienergy1234
10-10-2004, 04:16 AM
i know i have posted many threads on this subject and i am VERY sorry,but something is really starting to bother me,our aikido school(aikikai)has many instuctors but only one cheif instuctor,and when is asked one of the instuctors how long it took aikido to start working as a self defense he said twenty years to START workin,the CHIEF instructor said 6 months to a year ,any comments

villrg0a
10-10-2004, 04:51 AM
Hmmmm very difficult to answer...

guest89893
10-10-2004, 07:00 AM
i know i have posted many threads on this subject and i am VERY sorry,but something is really starting to bother me,our aikido school(aikikai)has many instuctors but only one cheif instuctor,and when is asked one of the instuctors how long it took aikido to start working as a self defense he said twenty years to START workin,the CHIEF instructor said 6 months to a year ,any comments

Joshua,
Explain what is so important about when Aikido "works" as a self-defense?

And how many threads do you need to get the answer "you" want to hear?

Andrew James
10-10-2004, 07:22 AM
It wasn't that long ago in class we we're all having trouble with a certain technique. The sensei said 'don't worry it will come together soon - give it twenty more years'..............he was only joking of course. I think that your instructor has probably the same sense of humour :confused:

kienergy1234
10-10-2004, 07:59 AM
my instructor was SERIOUS actually ,when he said twenty years

Chuck Clark
10-10-2004, 09:06 AM
Josh, I have had students successfully defend themselves with "aikido" after a few months in the dojo. The truth is: It depends on who the attacker is... and who the defender is.... and many other things that are not under your control at the time. Aikido does not turn you into a superman that "wins" every time. After 10 to 20 years you should have a better chance of being better at what you do than the attacker is at what they do... but there are still no guarantees that you'll be successful.

Practice for the sake of the practice and what it brings to your life and keep learning.

Gambatte!

L. Camejo
10-10-2004, 09:17 AM
Hey Josh,

Consider yourself lucky.:) I met and trained with an Aikikai instructor who told me that he did not even consider Aikido a martial art. So there goes any thoughts of being able to defend oneself with it. Thankfully this was just a visit while away and not my main style that I train at home.:)

Maybe the instructor just got tired of you asking the question? Imo Chuck hit the nail on the head, it depends on many factors. In my own experience my instructor did not focus on self defence aspects so much, but I made sure to extract what I could from what he gave to be able to defend myself from the average drunk joe within a matter of months of training. But as I'm sure you've heard before - if you want to learn self defence go do a proven self defence course, not a martial art. It's just quicker if that is your goal. If you want to learn Aikido, then go train hard and train with a focus to what you want to get out of the training and stop spending so much time on the web.:)

Just some thoughts.
LC:ai::ki:

Noel
10-10-2004, 10:34 AM
Self defense or self defense?

The best self defense is not to get in a bad situation to begin with. That, I can see after six months to a year.

To actually apply a technique to a non-compliant, untrained uke? Well, if I can do it in twenty years, I will significantly beat my own forecast.

YMMV,
-Noel

SeiserL
10-10-2004, 11:34 AM
Kohai,

IMHO, you are questioning so much you may be interfering with your own ability to progress. The question may not be when will Aikido make you effective but when will you make your Aikido effective. Effectiveness in a reality self-defense situation is more a matter of your personality, intent , and commitment, not what style your are studying. I have been with military personnel in CQC/H2H who could not make it work until they really changed where their head was at.

Quit questioning and get back to training. Question will not make you a better fighter.

maikerus
10-10-2004, 08:22 PM
Does it really matter?

Aikido is good/wonderful/interesting/fantastic/amazing for so much more than self defense. If that narrow perception is the only focus you have then perhaps Aikido is not the best thing for you, but I would argue that there is nothing out there that is dedicated to only satisfying one thing.

I know many people who entered Aikido with one goal in mind (physical fitness, self defense, confidence, social reasons...etc.) but the only ones that stayed were those that found something in addition to their original reason.

WRT the difference in answers you got when asking this question to your instructors, you might consider that one of them learned that they didn't need to fight in 6 months to a year - which is an important insight and well worth passing on to zealous beginners, while the other may have known that, but wanted to address your apparant keenness to fight and gave you the number of 20 years...so hopefully you won't think about going out and starting anything you can't finish for at least that long.

Just a thought...maybe two. But what do I know...I've only been doing this for 20 years <g>.

--Michael

GaiaM
10-10-2004, 09:26 PM
Go train so you can come to your own conclusion sometime in the next 50 years.
Gaia

Don_Modesto
10-10-2004, 10:11 PM
i know i have posted many threads on this subject and i am VERY sorry,but something is really starting to bother me,our aikido school(aikikai)has many instuctors but only one cheif instuctor,and when is asked one of the instuctors how long it took aikido to start working as a self defense he said twenty years to START workin,the CHIEF instructor said 6 months to a year ,any comments

How long is a piece of string? (Jun Akiyama)

xuzen
10-10-2004, 11:52 PM
Seriously Josh,

How old are you, what's with the massive preoccupation with SD, dude? Are you a victim of bullying, is your life being threaten in any way? If is any of the above, learning a MA to counter them is too slow, seek professional help, like counsellor, Woman's Aid shelter, police, you get the idea.

Having said the above: Aikido against your scrawny little kid sister - 3 months, Aikido against a hulking Sumo grand champion - infinitely long time.

Again having said the above, if you seriously want to use aikido effectively, 1 year max. Here is how, buy yourself a one way ticket to Tokyo. Enrol in the Senshusei course of the Yoshinkan Aikido Hombu dojo in Tokyo of course. Spend one year as a live in student, training with the Tokyo Metropolitan police and Tokyo riot police force. After the one year is up, come back to this website, post again and tell us have your view change or not.

Only drawback, it can get really expensive to live in Tokyo and the course fee does not come cheap, it helps to have a sponsor. Nonetheless, that does not stop thousand of aspiring MA flocking to the course.

There, hope this helps,
Boon.

xuzen
10-11-2004, 12:30 AM
Oh here is another method, maybe cheaper...

I also know that the shaolin temple in Henan province and Southern Shaolin in Fujian province of China take in live in students. It is tough course to get in, for the locals anyway because of demand for places far exceed available places. But for foreigner with money to spare...

Many graduates get lucrative employement in the private security industry (bodyguards for the rich and famous), some get lucky break in the Far East Movie industry (e.g., Jet Li). Anyhow, most graduates show a massive improvement in their SD ability.

This option is maybe cheaper, sensing that China is still a developing country, but I bet after the Beijing Olympics, things are going to get much more expensive there.

Hope this helps too,

boon.

raul rodrigo
10-11-2004, 08:05 AM
Seriously Josh,

Again having said the above, if you seriously want to use aikido effectively, 1 year max. Here is how, buy yourself a one way ticket to Tokyo. Enrol in the Senshusei course of the Yoshinkan Aikido Hombu dojo in Tokyo of course. Spend one year as a live in student, training with the Tokyo Metropolitan police and Tokyo riot police force. After the one year is up, come back to this website, post again and tell us have your view change or not.

There, hope this helps,
Boon.


I have a friend who took the Senshusei course in Tokyo and when he came back home, ran into a mugger with a knife. Used his training and broke the guy's wrist with kote gaeshi. Good enough for you?


R

stern9631
10-11-2004, 01:03 PM
i know i have posted many threads on this subject and i am VERY sorry,but something is really starting to bother me,our aikido school(aikikai)has many instuctors but only one cheif instuctor,and when is asked one of the instuctors how long it took aikido to start working as a self defense he said twenty years to START workin,the CHIEF instructor said 6 months to a year ,any comments

I find that looking for the martial root of these techniques makes it easier to train. Find out where the jabs, hooks, leg sweeps and elbows are.
These are not in the non-punitive nature of Aikido, but they may help you train and then also give you a real choice about how you apply a technique. There is no CHOICE to be non-violent unless you know how to be violent.

Bronson
10-11-2004, 08:14 PM
There is no CHOICE to be non-violent unless you know how to be violent.

Where have I heard that before..... ;)

Bronson

kienergy1234
10-14-2004, 06:39 PM
:) thanms for all the posts,they are very helpful :)

Lyle Laizure
10-16-2004, 02:22 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It doesn't matter what style a person studies, how long they have studied, or how man dan rankings a person may have when it comes to self-defense. It will depend a little on the instructor as the information has to be, to some degree valid, but more as a whole on the individual practitioner.

It is how the individual reacts to the stress of a "real life" encounter. None of your "classroom" training can prepare you for the real world. We train under ideal circumstances. Outside of the classroom all safety restraints are removed, ie the attacker does mean you bodily harm.

When Aikido or any martial art becomes effective is not a relevant question, in my opinion.

Raziel
10-16-2004, 02:40 PM
I think it is depends how your sensei teach you the technique. It will be good if the sensei (like mine) teach you those Aikido technique in practical way, just like how you do ikyo in different situation. That's why I always prefer to train with 'pratical' Aikido technique rather than keep on practice those Aikido technique without understand how to use them in real life fighting.

Aikidoiain
10-16-2004, 07:56 PM
I have no "belt" in Aikido, but after only 3 months of informal lessons I was able to defend myself in a real attack. That was Tomiki Aikido though.

My informal training in that style continued for a good 10 years. I've just begun "formal" training in Aikikai, and I'm not training for self-defense any more.

Belts and rank don't really matter. It's down to the person's ability to apply techniques without hesitation if attacked, that's all that counts at the end of the day.

After a few months Tomiki training, I sparred with a 1st Dan Karate man, and he couldn't touch me - I had him in joint locks in seconds. He just didn't know how to deal with Aikido. He said he was amazed that I was that good after such a short time. Aikido just felt natural to me - it suited my personality.

Now I'm training in Aikikai to try and get fit and maybe relax.



Iain. :ki: :)

Charles Hill
10-16-2004, 11:25 PM
None of your "classroom" training can prepare you for the real world.

Lyle,

I agree with everything in your post but this. I think that this is exactly the purpose of "classroom training." Endo Seishiro Shihan has said that we train in Aikido to keep "everyday mind" in even the most stressful situations. This is more important than any technique I might learn.

Charles Hill

Aikidoiain
10-17-2004, 02:02 AM
That's what I meant too Charles, although I didn't word it as well!


Iain. :ki: :)

Ordonez, Carlos
10-27-2004, 01:41 PM
Lyle,

It sounds so depresive to "fully" learn a technique in 20 years, but I think it's true. My sensei has an 8 year traing in Aikido with 15 years training in Kung Fu, and he said to us last time: "Expect to fully learn a technique in maybe 15 to 20 years". But in your asistance, I have a friend who practice aikido for 3 months and was playing soccer one day. He trew a ball to a guys face unintencially and hit the guy. The other guy was very angry and trow himself at him. He defend himself without hesitation with a very bad applied kote gaishi and send the guy to the floor stoping the fight.

I bet in 20 years kote gaishi will be a part of him as writing or tying his shoes.

paw
10-27-2004, 02:48 PM
It sounds so depresive to "fully" learn a technique in 20 years, but I think it's true.

I think it depends it depends what you mean by "learn".

If by "learn" you mean understand the technique intellectually, that should happen in a matter of minutes. If it doesn't I'd think about changing instructors.

If by "learn" you mean understand the technique and be able to teach the technique to another person, that may take months or years.

If by "learn" you mean get the basics down and physically perform the technique with a compliant partner, that should happen in a matter of minutes. If it doesn't I'd think about changing instructors.

If by "learn" you mean be able to perform the technique against someone who is offering a bit of resistance, that may take months or years, depending on how much resistance and who is resisting.

If by "learn" you mean be able to perform the technique every time, without fail, against anyone on the planet....that may never happen.

But your milage may vary.....


Regards,

Paul

Ordonez, Carlos
10-27-2004, 05:18 PM
Paul,

I share the same opinion you do. But I think JD was sharing his thoughts about the difficulty of mastering a technique. There's always a way to improved it, Theres always something new to learn, a new way to perform it. I look forward to be in the art for as long as I can, and by this I mean as long as my body can. I found in the art a different way to confront people and not only physical contact but in relationships, discussions, problems , etc. I gives you a new way to see the world and that, my friend, takes a lifetime to master.

CRO

Aikidoiain
11-01-2004, 12:01 PM
I used to teach drumming. I began on a drum pad by teaching the "drum rudiments". One such rudiment is called a "paradiddle", and is played like this - RLRR LRLL repeat.....Now, everyone has trouble with this at first. Just getting the right and left hands to play evenly is difficult. Anyway, I found that any drum technique is best learned really slowly (thus giving the brain time to capture the mechanics), then gradually, over time, you naturally play it faster and faster. But, it's not about speed alone - its about fluidity.

I think the same applies in Aikido - fluidity. I learned the kotegaeshi and nikkyo in minutes. In a matter of months, I was forced to use the kotegaeshi in a fight - it worked! I didn't even have to think about it. And now, after maybe 20 odd years of doing these basic techniques, they are second nature. Ultimately, it all depends on the individual. It just so happens that because I taught drumming, I could apply this method to "learning" also. I believe my drum teaching (and learning) actually prepared my brain for Aikido by teaching it "how to learn".

Ultimately, I taught my brain to play four different rhythms at once - this is called drumming independence.

"Train the brain", I say, and the body will follow.

Just an idea.


Iain. :ki: :)

mj
11-01-2004, 12:21 PM
... I learned the kotegaeshi and nikkyo in minutes..

hahahahahaha

I'm sorry...didn't you say a little while back that you have never attended a real class?

Aikidoiain
11-01-2004, 12:26 PM
......To continue - I'm now learning a new style of Aikido, and for me, I'd like to be able to "isolate" each part of a technique down to its component parts, and gradually add another section as I progress. Unfortunately, this is not how this dojo teach, so I have to try to learn everything at once - way more difficult.

Even more difficult, is actually "going to Aikido!" (explained in my journals).


Iain. :ki: :)

Aikidoiain
11-01-2004, 12:33 PM
Mark, an Aikido instructor who was a friend, taught me it "privately". Is that any less relevant? :p

What's with the "superior " attitude mate? Jealous because I had my own instructor? :disgust: Shame on you.

You don't sound so nice.....so bye.



Iain.

mj
11-01-2004, 12:46 PM
Not at all...I had a private Karate instructor from when I was 8 till about 12-13. Pros and cons learning that way.

The 'superior' person would be the one claiming to have learned nikkyo and kote gaeshi in a few minutes. The depth and complexity of training required to start to understand the aiki versions of these waza/kihon....well nm.

Me...I like to go from sumi-otoshi into a full reversal to omote nikkyo, just to see how good a person's balance is :)

You forgot your little smiley face on your last post :)

Yokaze
11-01-2004, 12:58 PM
Woah, Mark, Iaian, back to your corners, please. Remember, we're not here to antagonize each other, we're all in this together, right?

I've taught Kote gaeshi to a couple of friends, and they picked it up within the first few minutes, enough to use it on me in a "live" attack (as in, real intent, about 3/4 speed). Now, to say they "mastered" it would be erroneous, because any technique in Aikido takes years to truly master.

After all, it's one thing to be able to use Kote gaeshi against a Tsuki punch, but it would take months just to learn all the different attacks and how to use Kote gaeshi against them.

Now, on to the ORIGINAL question. For me, Aikido became "useful" for self-defense after about a year. However, there is much more to it than that. After all, there are levels of self-defense. Nobody can be prepared to defend themselves against EVERYTHING.

However, after 20 years or so of study, you'd be close. This idea of self defense always depends on the situation. 2 years of Aikido would probably be enough if you were being attacked by one or two unarmed drunks. If, on the other hand, you are being mobbed by a dozen gang members, at night, weilding chains and knives (which happened at a gas station not so far away from where I live), even 20 years may not be enough.

So don't worry about it, and keep training! ;)

mj
11-01-2004, 01:08 PM
Having done 20 years of (real) Judo training before coming to Aikido, I feel that my 6 years training in Aikido would allow me to try a few moves in a SD situation.

Most likely they would not be moves, but movement. The moves are really secondary to the motion imo. The moves (waza) are merely tools to allow me to focus on the right things: spatial awareness; momentum; connection; being centred in a changing situation; linking my breathing.

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera (in best Yul Brynner mode)

Aikidoiain
11-01-2004, 05:33 PM
To Rob,

Obviously I never "mastered" any technique in a few minutes - that would be silly. Yet, in a matter of only a few months when a "ned" held a knife at me demanding my wallet, I immediately grabbed his wrist and threw him to the ground. The kotegaeshi I'd been taught saved my life - whether I had "mastered" this technique at that point was quite frankly irrelevant. I've never had to use it against a punch, so no; I wouldn't say I have mastered it. The ned was simply standing there pointing the knife at me - not stabbing.

In fact, I wouldn't say I had mastered any Aikido, Aiki-jujitsu, Karate or Hapkido - I simply know "just enough" to deal with the aforementioned attack(s). I ain't no drumming master either, but I did get a lot of work, and was able to teach and hold drum workshops.

Of course, all this happened many years ago now, and I was a totally different person then. Now, I'm afraid to leave the house! Anyway, I don't think this thread was about "mastering" a technique anyway was it? Nor was it about my "credentials" - that's on another thread called, "Is Aikidoiain welcome here or not?". Someone obviously thinks not! :p (now ignored, incidentally :D )


Thanks Rob,
Iain. :ki: :)

Aikidoiain
11-03-2004, 05:29 AM
To "mj",

I don't like being laughed at! Few people do.

If your Aikido is as bad as your manners, I'd recommend you give up and try a more violent MA - like JKD!

I also ignore people with no manners...so bye.


Best of luck - sounds like you'll need it!

Iain. :D :disgust:

ian
11-03-2004, 08:39 AM
I think aikido training can be useful within around 6 months for self-defence (from direct experience). However I think aikido is actually much more than the techniques, and to develop the blending and sensetivity you first have to have internalised all the techniques (which may take around 7-8 yrs part-time?). So maybe to do 'aikido' in its full sense of the word in a practical situation I would say 10 years, though obviously this depends on the quality of teaching, natural ability and regularity of training. However self-defence is a very random thing.

I like to thing that blending (yin/yang) is something that cannot be avoided because it's a function of the operation of the universe. However we can enable our body to blend in such a way as to avoid a strike, rather than our nose bone blending in such a way that it breaks in response to the force of a strike. So the true answer is, you can use aikido without even having gone to any classes and not even know it (how easy is that!)

Bronson
11-03-2004, 01:34 PM
To "mj",

I don't like being laughed at! Few people do.

If your Aikido is as bad as your manners, I'd recommend you give up and try a more violent MA - like JKD!

I also ignore people with no manners...so bye.


Best of luck - sounds like you'll need it!

Iain. :D :disgust:

Now now Iain. How can Mark reply (should he choose to) to your comments if you ignore him. By ignoring him you get to say anything you want without ever having to deal with a response from him. Doesn't seem fair somehow.

I mean jeez, if we all ignore everyone that takes a poke at us now and then or has issue with one of our beliefs or something we write it wouldn't be much of a discussion group now would it.

In short, grow up and get over it ;) :D

Bronson

Chuck.Gordon
11-03-2004, 03:32 PM
Josh, dunno if you're still reading here or not, but here's my 2 cents' worth:

If you're worried about self defense, you're missing the point.

Good budo will teach you things about S.D. you can use tomorrow, but it's not about techniques, it's about not being a bloody idiot.

Seriously.

Let me ask you, WHY is this important? What's your motivation? Hae you been attacked? Have you been harmed or threatened? By whom? How? What was the context?

I've been (still am, in some respects) a profesional troublemaker (and trouble-receiver ... I'm a problem-solver, more or less) and, quite frankly, I'm not too impressed by folks who want to explore the 'real-world effectiveness' of budo.

Seriously.

I've been doing budo for 30+ years and don't really know what your point is. Of course, I've talked to folks who should know better who insist that budo training is about 'street effectiveness' ... but very damn few of those people actually have any experience or even concept of what that really means.

You want to learn to kill?

I can teach you to. However, you better really WANT it. Otherwise, you'll fail miserably and you'll probaby spend most of your ime throwing up. You might, even if you do really want it.

You want to FEEL like you're a killer and can do REAL damage? Keep playing video games. There's very little about REAL combat that won't make most folks throw up. If they have any humanity at all.

Me? I'm an unevolved bastard and I don't throw up. I'm a story-telling ape and I revel in my ape-ness. I have, actually, reconciled myself to being a 'civilized' ape, but I also know that most folks simply aren't anywhere near ready to explore some of the places I've been.

Budo ain't about killing. It's about living.

Got any questions? Talk to me. You can reach me at shobukan (at) the-dojo.com.

Chuck

Kevin Leavitt
11-03-2004, 04:16 PM
Damn Chuck you are fired up tonight!!!

All good stuff and I concur.

Wish you could have been in our combatives room today when I used "aikido principles" to stack up two guys in a pile of body parts and walked away. Never threw one punch, kick, irimi, or went to any submission hold. Simply off balanced them and guided them together.

Practicing Killing really is overrated and waaay to easy.

I am have more fun tossing 18 year olds grunts around with all this "soft stuff" .They are finding it quite a paradox that a 40 year old, liberal, vegetarian can have his way with them.

The cool part about it is that they are discovering that there are other possibilities out there than simply brut force and overwhelming firepower to resolve conflict.

Guys are starting to get interested in exploring the "dark side" !

Tschuess!

Chuck.Gordon
11-04-2004, 03:11 AM
Damn Chuck you are fired up tonight!!!


Sometimes my fingers get a sort of verbal diarrhea and I spout off ...

Wish you could have been in our combatives room today when I used "aikido principles" to stack up two guys in a pile of body parts and walked away. Never threw one punch, kick, irimi, or went to any submission hold. Simply off balanced them and guided them together.

LOL! That WOULD have been fun.

Chuck

Martin Ruedas
11-04-2004, 07:17 AM
Don't be bothered by it JD. Just train. Because if you are eager for results, you end up learning nothing. So, just train you heart out :)

Aikidoiain
11-05-2004, 02:33 AM
To Bronson,

You're right I do need to grow up. I'm easily offended due to low self-esteem. I'm also an easy target.

Nevertheless, I would never laugh at another member - that's just childish.

Iain. :dead:

Kevin Masters
11-05-2004, 09:41 AM
Yet, in a matter of only a few months when a "ned" held a knife at me demanding my wallet, I immediately grabbed his wrist and threw him to the ground.
I thought it was one of your band-mates that pulled the sticker on you? Or was this a different time you were faced with a blade?
My Scottish slang ends with "fair skunnert" so maybe by "ned" you meant band-guy? :rolleyes:
cf:
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpost.php?p=83842&postcount=2
Just wunnerin... :cool:

Aikidoiain
11-07-2004, 05:54 AM
Last post.

To Kevin.

Here "ned" means street thug. It was a mugger. For your information, "Ned" is short for "non-educated delinquent" - so there!

Bye folks. "Thanks for all the fishes" [quote]



Iain.

batemanb
11-07-2004, 07:35 AM
A Glaswegian friend of mine used to refer to skinheads as neds, but that was about 20 years ago.

Aikidoiain
11-12-2004, 05:11 PM
hahahahahaha

I'm sorry...didn't you say a little while back that you have never attended a real class?


Just checking in.....

Mark, I guess I'm just a quick learner! :p

By the way, I did train in a "real" dojo - in Hapkido, for 2 years. I learned a lot in that time. Very good instructor.

Ever been attacked in the "real" world? I have. I also trained in the real world. Obviously, our definitions of "real" are quite different. Having a knife pointed at me certainly felt real enough!

Take care out there!

And Bryan, "ned" has many meanings. It can also mean "Neanderthal". Round here, it just means thug.

Best wishes,
Iain. :ki: :D

siwilson
11-12-2004, 05:28 PM
Joshua,
Explain what is so important about when Aikido "works" as a self-defense?

And how many threads do you need to get the answer "you" want to hear?

Joshua,

Your question is quite valid, but Aikido is full of those who seem to see a strange honour or elevated status in turning away from the defensive / martial side of AIkido. It is a martial art (no matter what some Aikikai-doka may say) and there is also attack in aikido.

Do you remember the story of O'Sensei demonstrating Aikido to the Japanese royal family? He said he could not as Aikido was a killing art! His first Uke lasted seconds and then Gozo Shioda Sensei took over and lasted the demo, but spent weeks in bed because of it!!!!!!!!!!

In my opinion, if your questions are not being satisfied in your dojo, find another dojo!!! If you have no other choice, then there are many who can help you here, but the questions need to be focused.

Hope I have been of some help.

Aikidoiain
11-13-2004, 03:44 PM
To "mj",

Ever wondered why I never went to a dojo to train all those years ago? I'll tell you - since the age of 12 (I'm now 41) I have suffered from the following conditions:-

1. Agoraphobia (now Chronic)
2. Social Phobia
3. General Anxiety Disorder [GAD]
4. Panic Disorder
5. Migraines (now Chronic)
6. Clinical Depression
7. REM Sleep Disorder

Perhaps you should check these conditions out on the web, and maybe you'll understand what I have to battle against every day. Compared to being threatened by a knife, these are far more frightening.

I doubt you'd last a minute with any one of these, never mind them all! Hopefully, you'll stop laughing now, and ask yourself, "Could I cope with all these problems?

I hope this will help diminish your obvious prejudice towards me. I always try to spread some understanding regarding Mental Health issues. By the way - anyone can become Mentally ill. So, please don't laugh.

It was a major achievement for me to go to a Hapkido dojo, and most recently, an Aikikai Aikido club (although I'm too ill to attend right now).

To further wipe the smile off your face - I am now in "relapse", and have become actively suicidal. You were so wrong to think I was the superior one Mark, when all along all I've ever been is honest.

Best wishes,
Iain. :ki: :straightf

Kevin Leavitt
11-13-2004, 05:51 PM
Sometimes the answers you seek can only be found within yourself and not from anywhere else. Aikido is a wonderful construct for providing you an environment to grow and explore, but I have found the answers and solutions to come from within myself and not from anywhere else.

I think if you expect others (or an art) to teach you something or to magically convey knowledge or skill to you...you will be disappointed. It comes through self-discovery and internalization. You have to get to know yourself and listen to what your mind and body are trying to tell you.