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Sid
03-11-2001, 12:23 PM
Hi guys. Dont laugh, but I saw this on Ripley's Believe it or not. There is this school of martial arts that claims to be able to teach you to master your ki so that you are not hurt when punched/kicked. http://www.jukokai.com/ - have a look at it and tell me what you think. Weird. They do teach aikido, though!

Sid

Jim23
03-11-2001, 01:27 PM
I couldn't find the combat ki info, but I enjoyed the articles regarding Jigoro Kano and combat Judo, Chijiro Yokoto's other Aikido, and many more.

Jim23

TheProdigy
03-11-2001, 01:55 PM
Hey,

I'm a fairly new aikidoka myself, but have become very interested in the cultivation of ki. The claims sound close to what I've been reading on Ch'i Kung. Ch'i Kung teachers are relatively few, and masters of the art even rarer. Ch'i Kung allows a person bring their body into perfect harmony, while also strengthing their organs, immune system, etc. The Ch'i Kung master almost never gets sick, but if they do they tend to heal very quickly. They have great understanding of their bodies and how to control the "life force".

I haven't researched the topic much, but this is what I've read on it so far (or at least an idea). Now, anyone can bruise, but such masters are supposedly much much harder to bruise. And, as they say, they'll heal rather quickly too.

I would guess that these martial artist focus on bringing about this harmony just as Ch'i Kung practicioners do... Of course, I am only just beginning to touch the surface of these arts.

-Jase

ze'ev erlich
03-11-2001, 02:40 PM
well,

when i was in japan, at our dojo, (Koyama sensei's Kyoto Aikikai dojo) there was one guy.
his name is Obata san.
He cam to our Aikido dojo when he was already a 4th dan in Daito Ryu.

other people used to say that his sensei taught him how to get hit but not hurt.

and really once our senpai said "ze'ev, punch him as you like"

at first i was kind of gentle, but eventualy i was punching and kicking him as hard as i could.

just to mention that i did not hit his groin not his neck and other dangerous vital points.

I must admit that it looked as if it really didnt hurt him at all.

His Aikido was fantastic and that was the only time he let our senpai let us hit him...

if you ever come accross him, please send him my regards.

ze'ev

aikikan

rehovot

mornmd
03-11-2001, 04:45 PM
Sounds like Luke Skywalker time. May the force "the Ki" be with you.

Matthew

AikidoSteve
03-11-2001, 10:18 PM
Very interesting! The closest I've ever come to seeing such a feat was right after I graduated from College. For 6 months I had a job as a bouncer in a bar. (Never started a fight, stopped a few, but mostly helped people find the door). Anyway, I've seen some drunks take hits that would have flatten sober folks. Maybe it was because they were so relaxed. They may have regretted the next morning, but at that moment they were still standing and swinging. In fact that part of the job use to scare me a bit, but I knew balance was on my side. I've digressed. I'm not sure why one would want the talent of being punched and kicked. I think I would prefer to master the art of getting out of the way. But I've always felt that if I got into a bad situation and got tagged, even though the other persons may be out for the count in the end, I could not declare myself the winner. To truly win is to avoid/prevent the development involving blows. However, all the best to those who can take it. ;-)

George S. Ledyard
03-12-2001, 01:28 AM
Sid wrote:
Hi guys. Dont laugh, but I saw this on Ripley's Believe it or not. There is this school of martial arts that claims to be able to teach you to master your ki so that you are not hurt when punched/kicked. http://www.jukokai.com/ - have a look at it and tell me what you think. Weird. They do teach aikido, though!

Sid
Although he is quite a controversial figure (see many E-budo flames) Rod Sakarnoski does distribute a film which shows his students being struck full force by members of the Dallas cowboys footbal team. He sent me a copy after I had introduced myself to him as a fellow police trainer. You can see the Cowboys Punter kicking a slender young man right in the groin full power without effect and four huge fellows simultaneously punching anoher student in the throat absolutely full power. And these are the bench press 400 + pounds crowd. It is something to see and is the first time I ever got to see what was stated to be possible in the Chinese arts. Definitely makes you humble about your atemi waza and how effective it is.
Here is their version of who he is:
http://www.jukokai.com/html/jukokai/soke_bio.html

andrew
03-12-2001, 04:45 AM
I remember watching the same episode of Ripleys believe it or not. I was pretty sceptical. There was a tae kwon do expert hitting them too, I recall.

I remember reading an interview on aikidofaq with Chiba where he was talking about having seen people get punched in throat/groin for demonstations. Actually. it's not quite clear in the article whether he'd seen it done or demonstrated it himelf. Still, interesting interview.
http://www.aikidofaq.com/chiba_interview.html

andrew

Aiki1
03-12-2001, 09:06 AM
I looked into this a bit a long time ago, and had correspondance with a well-known martial artist who does it. I personally don't think it's really Ki training. I haven't done it, so this is just my own deduction, but from what I learned it seems to be done more with physical, breathing, and desensitization techniques. I heard nothing that made me feel that they knew anything about energy. Of course, not everything could be revealed. It's secret, you know?

There was also the fellow who was quite good at it who went into the UFC, and prompty lost.

Al
03-12-2001, 11:31 AM
Just a little note, why would you want to be hit? Isn't the whole point of training in aikido to allow yourself not to be hit - discuss.

giriasis
03-12-2001, 11:59 AM
The first school I practiced aikido with was with Juko Kai. My former instructors and some of my fellow students have participated in Juko Kai's combat ki training. I had two opportunities to participate but I declined each time. The main thrust behind the training was to basically learn to take hits. Once a year they have a weekend clinic were their members can train and learn combat ki.

From what I have been told from my friends in my old school...They spend the whole morning preparing for taking the hits. They do meditation and ki exercises that are found in tai chi and other chi/ki related arts. They also learn how to what they call "lock in." This is basically focusing their mind and body on the point where they anticipate to get hit. The same principles of breaking boards apply to their combat ki yet instead of focusing all of one's energy to break a board they focus their energy to prevent injury to their bodies.

My only problem with their whole approach to combat ki is that they seem to really emphasize the glamour of what they are doing. For example, I attended one of the sword clinics held by Rod, and he spent much of his discussion of combat ki on how much they are getting televised. He only made a passing comment that there are spiritual reasons for doing it, too.

Some people criticize them and say that they are pulling punches and I have seen demonstrations performed by my instructors and I can say that they are not. Some say its a trick, but what they do is no more a trick than "unbendable arm" or "unliftable body" find in aikido circles.

I am no longer a member of Juko Kai as I am now very happy with my current training. So just take my opinion for what it is worth.

Anne Marie Giri

Aiki1
03-12-2001, 12:14 PM
I don't think what they do is a trick, and I know they do meditation and yogic exercises etc. I still have to question whether or not they're actually tuning into the conscious use of energy, or using the mind and body to desensitize and harden. I do know this is part of it, I was clearly told about that aspect of it. And that's very different than actually using Ki/Chi. Anyway, who wants to get hit, not me. And I know what you mean about the glamour thing, big time.

giriasis
03-12-2001, 12:21 PM
I couldn't tell you whether or not they are actually tuning into the conscious use of energy. In think they are supposed to. If they actually do, I have no clue. I never participated in the clinics, but I am relaying to you from what I have been told and observed first hand at my old school.

In my opinion there are much better ways to learn to develop one's ki than learning to get hit. That's part of reason why I did not attend their combat ki clinic.

Anne Marie

Chris P.
03-12-2001, 01:21 PM
Al wrote:
Just a little note, why would you want to be hit? Isn't the whole point of training in aikido to allow yourself not to be hit - discuss.

I think the "whole point" is to end fighting on all planes of existence. Nevertheless, sometimes we get things we didn't want. Best not to keep all your eggs in the "I do Aikido so I will never get hit" basket.

giriasis
03-12-2001, 02:14 PM
Al wrote:
Just a little note, why would you want to be hit? Isn't the whole point of training in aikido to allow yourself not to be hit - discuss.

In Juko Kai, their whole thrust for training is an all-inclusive combat training; thereby, they incoporate a variety of different arts such as karate, jujutsu, kobudo, sword (iai and ken), judo, aikido, and combat ki. Their point of combat ki isn't to improve their aikido, as their aikido training is separate from their combat ki. Their point of combat ki is to learn to not be afraid of getting hit thereby allowing yourself to be more calm in a real situation.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, them being on hype shows like Ripleys distracts from their actual purpose.

Anne Marie

Nick P.
03-12-2001, 05:18 PM
Hey!

How come there are no pencil-necked geeks like me (in the pictures)doing this kinda stuff!?