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mgreen
08-31-2004, 11:38 PM
My Sensei was in the special forces in South East Asia during Vietnam. He is always very down to earth about how really, any dim wit can go to a firing range for a day, learn to shoot a 9mm, and blow your 8th Dan ass away. All that training down the drain. How many teachers out ther are honest enough to share this with their students? I think many are afraid that people will think "then why bother!". Has anyone had this problem? Interested in hearing back....

shihonage
08-31-2004, 11:48 PM
Any dimwit can learn to drive, run a truck through your dojo wall at 80mph and flatten a dozen 8th dans at once.
Why bother training ?

A sufficiently large dimwit can catch your daughter in a dark alley, rape her, and then dispose of her body in a dumpster.
Why bother having a child ?

Tomorrow, entire California may be rocked by an earthquake and sink into the Pacific.
Why bother living ?

mgreen
08-31-2004, 11:56 PM
Any dimwit can learn to drive, run a truck through your dojo wall at 80mph and flatten a dozen 8th dans at once.
Why bother training ?

A sufficiently large dimwit can catch your daughter in a dark alley, rape her, and then dispose of her body in a dumpster.
Why bother having a child ?

Tomorrow, entire California may be rocked by an earthquake and sink into the Pacific.
Why bother living ?
I like your outlook very much. I find it to be very simular with mine. Why bother living? Why not? I was really interested in seeing if anyone has ever had this problem with students leaving a dojo for this reason.

vanstretch
08-31-2004, 11:59 PM
Why waste your time going to a firing range if you're a nitwit? Right Matthew? All u gotta do is squeeze your trigger finger. Don't waste the rangemasters time junior.

Nick
09-01-2004, 12:33 AM
I know I said I'd only be a lurker, but:

I've found that many people start aikido to learn self defense. This is no surprise. However, I have yet to meet any yudansha that studies aikido purely for the self defense aspect.

You may come for the self defense, but you stay for the exercise, the physical (as well as spiritual and mental) challenges, the joy of learning new things and relearning old things, and the fellowship of a good dojo that have led to some of the closest friendships I've ever had. As for myself, I'm not really worried about self defense. I avoid fights and dangerous situations and have enough charisma to talk myself out of the rest. I like that aikido is in fact a form of self defense as it does give us an end to work toward (and validates it as a martial art); however, in the end it's the work that matters.

And if you ever delve into the philosophies that make up ancient bujutsu, you are actually validating your own point. As Uesugi Kenshin put it: "Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live." Your 8th dan ass could, in fact, get blown away by some drunk with a gun on the walk home from the dojo. Or you could get hit by a car, or you could die in a million other horrible and/or humorous ways. That's what makes life so special: it could be gone at any moment. James Dean put it best when he said "Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die today."

The chances that I will get shot one day are pretty slim. However, it is a certainty that the joy and peace of mind that I get from Aikido will follow me all the days of my life, and that is why I train.

Cheers,

Nick

SeiserL
09-01-2004, 12:38 AM
There are a lot of us in country grunts from accross the pond who can honestly admit the limits of our art without being dimwits or nitwits.

My complimenst and appreciation to your Sensei. Now get back to training.

xuzen
09-01-2004, 12:58 AM
A pepper spray cost RM 30.00 (approx USD 4.30) in my country. Guns are illegal here, so are tazer and its equivalent. My point is with USD 4.30 and minimal training (you don't have to train for decades and obtain black belt to utilise it efficiently) you can sucessfully neutralize more proficient MArtist of any style. So why train in "insert style of MA here"?

Maybe it is the mental preparation that it offer? Any more insight into this perennial question?

A similar anology would be the arrival of musket in Japan brought by the Portugese or Dutch missionaries in the 16th Century. Years of training in the koryu bugei will not defend a distinguished warrior from a lowly peasent wielding a musket. But fast forward to this modern era, MA is still very much alive despite the advancement of more practical means of Self-defence. I don't have a good answer to the above question, any one wishes to attempt to answer the question?

:straightf
Boon.

paw
09-01-2004, 06:08 AM
Eat right. Exercise. Die anyway.

I train because I enjoy it.


Regards,

Paul

Nick Simpson
09-01-2004, 07:07 AM
Is a pepper spray gauranteed to "neutralise" everyone???? Youd have to pull it out and get it in their face first, as well as hope it would be effective enough to drop the person. Theres a lot of variables in this eqaution Xu.

Chuck.Gordon
09-01-2004, 07:19 AM
My Sensei was in the special forces in South East Asia during Vietnam.

That's cool. He joins the ranks of some veyr august folks in the aikido community, then. I love working with the SF guys.

They're focused, brighter than your average bear and usually fitter, too.

What's your teacher's name and do you know what his unit was? I may know or have buddies who know some of his peers.

He is always very down to earth about how really, any dim wit can go to a firing range for a day, learn to shoot a 9mm, and blow your 8th Dan ass away.

Yes. Entirely possible. You could also step in front of a bus, slip in the shower (though ukemi can help with this problem), contract a dreadful disease. Death awaits us all.

All that training down the drain.

Not necessarily. Depends on what you're training for.

[/QUOTE] How many teachers out ther are honest enough to share this with their students? I think many are afraid that people will think "then why bother!". Has anyone had this problem? Interested in hearing back....[/QUOTE]

Not sure what the problem is. Could you define it more clearly? Are you questioning the efficacy of aikido? The purpose of training? The benefits of training? Something else entirely?

Also not sure what the SpecForce/aikido connection has to do with anything, could you please clarify?

Chuck

billybob
09-01-2004, 08:54 AM
your sensei does well to teach you you are vulnerable - as if all the bruises and sprains didn't tell us already!!!

perhaps he is encouraging you to look within yourself. one person said he is nonviolent and talks his way out of situations - hats off to you. i am arrogant, brash and a pain in the butt. i have studied judo, jujutsu, aikido, and marksmanship (master of none). i train in aikido to be more like the person who avoids conflict.

and i believe that tuning in to ourselves and our environs like OSensei did means we can avoid a lot of deadly situations, and maybe be lucky enough to be fully aware when we die.

billybob

akiy
09-01-2004, 09:30 AM
To take a page out of our very own Jim Baker's Just Ask Jim (http://home.earthlink.net/~jimbaker6/aa/askjim.htm) page:

Q: Is Aikido the best martial art?
No, thermonuclear warfare is the best martial art; followed by long range artillery, armor, guns, knives, and large guys named Bubba. If you want to defend yourself in the street, buy a tank. Aikido isn't about that, neither is real Budo.

-- Jun

kironin
09-01-2004, 10:10 AM
To take a page out of our very own Jim Baker's Just Ask Jim (http://home.earthlink.net/~jimbaker6/aa/askjim.htm) page:

Q: Is Aikido the best martial art?
No, thermonuclear warfare is the best martial art; followed by long range artillery, armor, guns, knives, and large guys named Bubba. If you want to defend yourself in the street, buy a tank. Aikido isn't about that, neither is real Budo.

-- Jun


Just wait till we figure out how to make an anti-matter bomb.

that little thermonuclear warhead you be packing there will be like a candle.

goodbye Earth,

thanks for all the fish

kironin
09-01-2004, 10:11 AM
Eat right. Exercise. Die anyway.

I train because I enjoy it.

Regards,
Paul

A wise man speaks....

DaveO
09-01-2004, 11:15 AM
All that being said and for the most part agreed with; aikido is a superb defensive system.
It seems so many people try to define aikido by what it is not - i.e. it is not good for fighting; it is not good against a gun, it is not about self-defense, etc. (Side note - I for one simply cannot understand the negative connotation that such vulgar and mundane ideas like personal safety and defense seem to hold among aikidoists - but that's another topic.)
OK; I think we've beaten to death what aikido is not; why don't we look at what it is for a while?
As I said; it is a superb defensive system. It is so because it teaches exactly those things one needs to be able to defend onesself: movement, body dynamic, awareness, stability, relaxation of the body; among others.
It is a good, even balance of effective technique, physical/physiological training and nonviolent philosophy.
It is a defensive system with a fairly even demographic; that is to say just about anyone who wishes to can learn it. If they have the right mindset and instructor; they might even learn to effectively defend themselves with it. (Make no mistake - learning aikido and learning to defend onesself with aikido are two very different things.)
It is a fun, low-stress and low-impact system to learn; thus making it far less intimidating and damaging to the body than the high-powered striking arts.
It is a system that actively encourages a student to improve; 'good enough' simply doesn't exist - practice for 30 years; you still won't have kokyunage perfect. Some see that as a failing; I see it as a brilliant encouragement to get better.
And from a defensive standpoint; very importantly it is always close at hand. You don't need to pick anything up or ready an object; it's with you here, now and ready for use - if you are yourself ready to use it.

So with that in mind; let's go back to the argument.

First; Jun's comment. Jun's pretty much the last guy I want to criticize here; he's probably the nicest and friendliest mod of any forum I've ever seen. But Jim's comment there misses the mark by a pretty huge margin and here's why:
How many people walk down the street with an ICBM in their back pocket? How many women have used a Leopard II to resist a sexual assault? How many people have an M109 in the front hall to stop a home invasion? That line was a joke; supposedly with a point, but to me - a person who's used guns, knives and my own body to defend myself and others, it only shows the limitation of that kind of thinking.
Look; we can safely eliminate the first three objects; nukes, artillery and tanks; they're just idle humour. But guns, knives and backup? They're real - far too real. But are they useful for defense?
No. Not even remotely; aside from the intimidation factor which is minimal. (If, for example, a weapon is concealed if on the body or in the sock drawer at home; how the heck is it gonna scare off an attacker who doesn't know it's there?) These are offensive weapons; and offensive weapons do not a good defense make; and forget the old saw about 'the best defense'. OK; a guy's coming at you headon from fifty feet out. You're going to draw, make ready, aim and fire in enough time to stop him, eh? Possibly - from fifty feet out, dead ahead. But doubtful; for the majority of the population. I can draw, aim and fire a weapon from an open thigh holster in the kneeling position with a 90% accuracy rate in around half a second. That's sloooow folks; and terrible aim - handguns always were my worst weapon. A lot, a lot, a lot can happen in that space of time. Now; knowing that time and accuracy is insufficient to provide reliable defense; can you match it pulling the handgun out of your shoulder holder or purse?
Besides; this was a headonn rush from 50 feet out. How many attacks start like that? What are you going to do with your fancy little 92F if he blindsides you? Or your Cold Steel? I'll tell you exactly what you're going to do: you're going to go down fumbling for it; if you unfreeze in time to remember the damn thing.
Now let's look at the psychological aspects: let's assume you've got a weapon loaded, made ready and raised. Your attacker is square in the sight. Can you pull the trigger? Don't just laugh that question off and be macho about it; could you do it? I've known soldiers with years of dedicated, aggressive training under their belts who couldn't - and hesitated in that crucial fraction of a second. Are you prepared to deal with that question? And would you be prepared to deal with the overwhelming emotional aftermath if the answer is yes? It's time to stop thinking Bruce Willis and start thinking reality when talking about guns and knives.
Now of course; the original question posited that it is the attacker has the handgun. Good point; a very good point. What are your chances?
I know of one situation in which you'd have no chance - that being no training at all. You'd simply be unprepared to deal with the situation.
So - by learning aikido you can defend against a handgun? No; not unless a very specific set of criteria are met. One; you must be specifically trained in anti-weapon defense; far above and beyond what is taught in any civilian dojo. Two; you must be sufficiently experienced and prepared at that moment to deal with the attack. Three; you must have the specific combat attitude and mindset that would enable your body to react instantly in the correct way. Four; the circumstances of the attack must fall within a very narrow range that would allow you to succeed in your defense. In other words; you must see your attacker with sufficient time to move out of the arc of fire; you must be close enough to maximize the arc of fire; you must literally have the weight on the correct foot to moce instantly - even something that small will make the killing difference.
In other words; it's possible - but you have to win a freakin' lottery to do it.
I know - I've done it. Without going into details and please don't press me on it, it's something I don't like having to bring back; I was fired on by a man ready and prepared to shoot the first soldier through the door he was guarding. He fired from less than five feet away. He is now dead.
He is dead because I killed him.
Had not all those circumstances not come together; my luck plus my skill; he would have killed me.
So just between us; please don't anyone try to hand me some damn line about unarmed skills being useless against a handgun, alright? For 99.99% of the population it may well be; but I belong to that .01%; and view things differently as a result.

Now to the other part of Jim's comment that Jun put up: "Aikido isn't about that, neither is real Budo."
OK... I'm sure it isn't; so many people tell me so.
Lemme ask one quick teeny-weenie little question here....
If aikido isn't about defense; why are we throwing people around?!? Why is one 'uke' (attacker) and one 'nage' (defender)?
People seem to think that by looking at the defense; we ignore the spiritual/self-betterment side. Can we possibly turn that around and say the reverse? By concentrating on the spiritual; we ignore the defensive?
Is it not possible; by the slightest part, that the defensive side and spiritual side are in fact equal? Or is my interpretation of budo wrong and closeminded?

As for the original poster: Matthew; you're instructor told you something very true. Now let me tell you something very true: water is wet. Here's another one: Irons get hot when you plug them in. It's true; but what's the bloody point? If he's going to use his prior experience to hel you in the field of self defense; ask him to tell you something you can use.

Rant mode off.

akiy
09-01-2004, 11:26 AM
Hi Dave,

All great thoughts. Thanks for posting them!

(Hopefully, Jim will see what you wrote and will reply in kind...)

-- Jun

DaveO
09-01-2004, 11:52 AM
Thanks, Jun.
Sorry about the rant, really; it's just that particular topic hits a little close to home. The problem with self defense - especially as taught within the confines of the MA - is that by ratio very, very few people know how to do it effectively; and even fewer know how to teach it. No question; there are many, many, many superb aikido instructors out there; but of them only a tiny fraction are capable of teaching effective self defense - it's a totally different thing.
(Some people get confused or pissed off when I say that. Look at it this way: How many people on this forum are pilots? Quite a few I know; myself among them. OK; we can fly planes. Think we could shoot down an enemy plane in a dogfight? No way - that's a totally different skillset; one is flying the plane; the other is fighting it. For the vast majority of GA pilots; that's a skill they'll never need; the joy and pleasure of flying is enough. But for the others - the combat pilots; it's an essential skill; one known to be separate from the flying part. There are, of course, a lot of GA pilots who think they could fly in combat, for instance - let's face it; which new pilot hasn't pretended he was taking off in a Spitfire during the Battle of Britain during one of his early solo flights? Heh heh - been 16 years and I still do. Fortunately for us; we'll never have to learn otherwise - the same can't be said for all MAists; the possibility of an attack; infinitesimal as it is; is there.
As for my position on the different aspects of aikido - self defense; spirituality, etc.; to avoid misunderstanding I recommend this (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5717) thread. :)

kironin
09-01-2004, 12:31 PM
People seem to think that by looking at the defense; we ignore the spiritual/self-betterment side. Can we possibly turn that around and say the reverse? By concentrating on the spiritual; we ignore the defensive?
Is it not possible; by the slightest part, that the defensive side and spiritual side are in fact equal? Or is my interpretation of budo wrong and closeminded?

I have no problem with your interpretation.
The defensive side grounds the spiritual side in the world.
The spiritual side opens one to a vista beyond one's personal defensive concerns. In-Yo

mgreen
09-01-2004, 12:47 PM
My Sensei's name is James Shell. I made the SF connection, because hes kinda a gun nut too. Not in a violent manner, but as a marksman. ( I suppose he was violent in the SF though....) I agree that there Is engouh talk about what Aikido isnt. I think we all know its boundries, and limitations. What dosnt have them? My sole reason for practicing is because it inhances my life physicaly nd spritualy. I practice Zen Buddhism, and I feel that Aikido enhances this very much. Ive already said this on another thread, but I still think good Karma is your best defense.

Troy
09-01-2004, 12:53 PM
I remember reading in one of John Seven sensei's books about how O-Sensei dodged a bullet point blank in one of his Aiki gardens. I think that depending on the situation, if us Aikidoka focus hard enough, and train hard enough, we too can reach that level. "Make the enemies arrogance your weapon." A samurai once said.

jxa127
09-01-2004, 01:41 PM
Excellent posts, Dave.

Regards,

Paul Sanderson-Cimino
09-01-2004, 01:58 PM
My own view on the topic:
Aikido, like most martial arts, can improve your ability to defend yourself. Maybe not fighting off six uzi-wielding cyborg ninja in an alley, but maybe knowing enough to spin out of a grab and make a run for it, or to pin an angry friend. I think it depends on how you train.
As for the spiritual/defense 'split', I'm one of those possible cop-outs who says they're intimately related. Most of us get our attacks in emotional or verbal form, but in all cases it's "controlling aggression without inflicting injury", as O-sensei said.
Of course, I think many of us know an answer to this question:
1) Fortunately, not all attacks are from an armed assailant, probably from a hidden position, out to kill us
2) Aikido can be applied every day to live better, fuller lives and help others around us do the same.

vanstretch
09-01-2004, 02:40 PM
There is test world and there is real world. Two entirely different entities. I remember going thru police academy years ago and rembering little of what I was taught. I remember much more deeply and thoroughly what my field training officer and other veterans were doing in particular instances, and watched and learned from them. I learned to study others more critically and worked to avoid a rookies tunnel vision attitude. Aikido did and has helped quite a great bit. But YOU have to learn to adjust that inner dial accordingly. Dave Organ is right, and I can tell you that no officer wants to take a life, but sometimes they have to. (We do not kill anyone, We stop the threat.)That is how I can articulate my actions; to my sgt, to my partners, to a jury of my peers, to a judge. As long as I can articulate my actions and show that I had no alternative but to take the action(s) that I took, then my chances of clearance are much more in my favor. sorry for rant,many good points thru this learning curve of a thread. Take Care All. daniel.

Suru
09-01-2004, 04:43 PM
A friend of mine carries a Colt .45 with him wherever he goes. He has a concealed weapons permit. He is the exception, not the norm. If I'm at the pool hall playing billiards and I accidently bump into a drunk guy while he's shooting, he might throw a punch or what have you. I seriously doubt he would be packing heat and pull out a side arm. Since it's extremely rare that people carry firearms, Aikido is well-suited to handle most conflict scenarios.

Drew

vanstretch
09-01-2004, 07:12 PM
Drew, no offense but come on man!!!, maybe thats true with concealed carry permits for the few;(leo's,feds,bh's and some security,and/or those with permission). You can not make the correlation(assumption) that few people carry arms and so aikido will solve all. It will not, did you read Dave O's post in this thread? You know it is true that the gun laws of the US are a joke(most crime packed areas=inner cities,have the strictist laws). I just hope that you would rethink your assumption that not may carry arms on their persons. How could you possibly know this? You can't assume and you know why. Thank you.

stuartjvnorton
09-01-2004, 09:20 PM
A pepper spray cost RM 30.00 (approx USD 4.30) in my country. Guns are illegal here, so are tazer and its equivalent. My point is with USD 4.30 and minimal training (you don't have to train for decades and obtain black belt to utilise it efficiently) you can sucessfully neutralize more proficient MArtist of any style. So why train in "insert style of MA here"?


Because it's fun. :freaky:

DaveO
09-01-2004, 10:08 PM
Drew, no offense but come on man!!!, maybe thats true with concealed carry permits for the few;(leo's,feds,bh's and some security,and/or those with permission). You can not make the correlation(assumption) that few people carry arms and so aikido will solve all. It will not, did you read Dave O's post in this thread? You know it is true that the gun laws of the US are a joke(most crime packed areas=inner cities,have the strictist laws). I just hope that you would rethink your assumption that not may carry arms on their persons. How could you possibly know this? You can't assume and you know why. Thank you.

Actually Daniel; I support Drew's position. You're absolutely right; there's no way of knowing ahead of time whether or not someone's packing; but that's a separate issue. Drew is saying that in the vast majority of 'scuffle'-type encounters; people aren't going to haul out the artillery and begin blasting.
Now; it's true that in many areas that happens - in inner-city detroit or Scarborough for instance - but even so; while we read about them every day in the paper; and you as a cop likely deal with WRI's frequently; punches and shoves in a scuffle are far more frequent - by several orders of magnitude - than gunfire. In the vast majority of cases; aikido is enough to deal with a situation. (If, as I detailed, the person using it is capable of doing so in a defensive environment.)
Now keeping in mind you're also quite correct in saying you can't know if a person's armed (see above); this reinforces the simple fact that avoidance of conflict is far and away the best policy.
The caveat is that in this instance; we're talking about 'scuffle' encounters as Drew described. Far more dangerous is the violent assault and there; all bets are off. My point in this is that in that case; aikido is still overall your best, most immediate tool; 'cause 99.9% of the time such an attack will take place from the blindside; giving you no chance at all to ready a weapon.

Cheers! :)

p00kiethebear
09-01-2004, 10:16 PM
Has anyone had this problem?

Never had that problem because the first we learn in my dojo is to dodge bullets. I can't believe no one else here practices this.

xuzen
09-01-2004, 11:57 PM
Never had that problem because the first we learn in my dojo is to dodge bullets. I can't believe no one else here practices this.

Yes we do that here as well plus we also learn how to run so fast we becomes invisible to the naked eyes. Not to mention we are able to stealthly blend into the surrounding just like those super ninja fellas. Oops damm those anime movies, I am getting confused.

:confused:
Boon.

Disciples
09-02-2004, 01:24 AM
I take Seidokan Aikido...which I guess is supposed to be the type that is more harmonized and what not. I guess that doesn't matter, but in my opinion of a 16 year old in high school...it helps tremdously. People want to fight all the time over petty things, and in my eyes, real men use one valuable aspect in Aikido all the time: Using their words other than their fists. But for those who want to get physical with me and words don't seem to work, then I may perform on of the moves I've learned the night before or what have you. It helps neutralizing very high profile violent cases in school when people try to stab at you with pencils or come rushing at you like an idiot head first. In my eyes, using their own agression against them is the best way to apply any aikido move, simply because their embarrassment of being taken down so simply and being forced to look like an ass is the best way to stop anything. In school that is.
As for in the street...its completely different. Guns and knives come into play other than pencils and other school utensils. I've so far learned to neutralize someone if I also happen to have a bokken (my savior) with me....which I do for the most part. But when I'm without it and somebody decides to shoot at me, I can do one of 2 things: 1. Get off the line and move as quickly as I can around the person with the gun at a close range in order to throw off their aim and reduce chances of me getting hit. Or 2. Get hit and die. I'd rather go with choice one, because dying just won't do. I want to get better in aikido first.

This may be a little off topic but this has been brought to my attention by one of my peers. Aikido is one of the deadliest MAs out there. Seeing as though I almost broke my own arm trying to move from a pin I could see how, for most people who don't know how to act when pinned do the same thing. And when throwing someone or flipping someone, if they don't know how to fall....they'd pretty much break something. Especially with the move where you place your thumb between their pinky and ring finger nuckles and wrap your other fingers around the blade of their hand and just cut down. I think it is called Kotegash or something. Anyways, its effective and just playing around with friends I think I accidently slammed one of them into the ground and he couldn't move for 5 minutes. He's fine now, except he doesn't want to "play fight" with me anymore.

Iwan F. Kurniawan
09-02-2004, 06:11 AM
I think many are afraid that people will think "then why bother!".

yes, why bother? :)
i will immediately leave learning aikido if someday i think aikido will always keep me save from anything evil :grr: ...

aikido is extremly damn great ... :ai: :ki: :do: , but doesn't mean that aikido is the best. many best martial arts in this universe but only few "knights" of those could be found. and, "knights" are just also flash and blood who could not hide from death or so ...

just practise, observe oftenly, and let's us make aikido one of the good thing we do for our life.

onegaisimasu!

Nick Simpson
09-02-2004, 07:07 AM
Well, we have to put the time in somehow, why not do something constructive like aikido?

markwalsh
09-02-2004, 10:31 AM
Glad I (usually) live here in Western Europe where are guns are rarer. Even If they weren't, I still think I'd do Aikido.

Semi relevant true story:
Once when I was buying pizza in the States, the guy at the counter said, "I hear you guys don't have freedom in Britain.", and proceeded to show me his hand gun. Lunch was successful exchanged, bullets and opinions were not.

Mark
x

Nick Simpson
09-02-2004, 10:34 AM
Theres some strange people about...

billybob
09-02-2004, 11:58 AM
I remember reading in one of John Seven sensei's books about how O-Sensei dodged a bullet point blank in one of his Aiki gardens. I think that depending on the situation, if us Aikidoka focus hard enough, and train hard enough, we too can reach that level. "Make the enemies arrogance your weapon." A samurai once said.

i like the post above. train. train hard. train for perfection. love your enemy, and seek to do no harm.
i also carry a 15 shot nine mil everywhere it is legal for me to do so and i will trade some *(*&bag's life to save my wife's every time. reconciling the contradiction is between me and god.

billybob

tedehara
09-02-2004, 01:53 PM
One of the first non-Japanese instructors was Yukiso Yamamoto. He was born in Hiroshima and move to Hawaii. At age 49, he was a professional Judo instructor at 6th Dan. After meeting Koichi Tohei, he switched to Aikido and eventually earned a 6th Dan in Aikido.

I was reading Diary of the Way (pg 29) that had a section on him. Here is what I found relevant to this thread.
I do not practice Aikido for self-defense reasons. I do not think any serious students practice this art for self-defense. The movements are simply a way to visually demonstrate the Aikido principles. These principles of nondissension and avoiding conflicts can be applied to our everyday life. This is the purpose of studying Aikido. If you have love in hour heart for all creation, the universe itself is your protector. There is no self-defense for those with ill intentions.

mgreen
09-02-2004, 02:44 PM
One of the first non-Japanese instructors was Yukiso Yamamoto. He was born in Hiroshima and move to Hawaii. At age 49, he was a professional Judo instructor at 6th Dan. After meeting Koichi Tohei, he switched to Aikido and eventually earned a 6th Dan in Aikido.

I was reading Diary of the Way (pg 29) that had a section on him. Here is what I found relevant to this thread.
Wow, what a great quote. My old boss used to carry a 1 shot Derringer in his pocket where ever he went. Probably the only thing I ever learned from him was to treat everyone like they got that little gun in there pocket. You never know. I didnt know he carried it untill 2 years of working there. There are a lot of poeple who say that around the time of the invention of the more concealable pistol, people were much more civilized towards one another. Just for this reason. Dont try and slap a women, or start a fight in a bar, because they just might have a Derringer,,,,,,,

david evans
09-03-2004, 05:40 PM
Matthew

For my part, I am not training in Aikido so that I do not get shot.

Look to the real reason why your sensei would say this; it is perhaps intended to be more than the obvious.

Regards, David.

PS. Happy training!

Thomas Ambrose
09-04-2004, 12:12 AM
In a way, Aikido can beat a gun. Learning to avoid conflict and gaining self-discipline and a respectful attitude can save your life a million times.

You are in a bar. You bump into some guy shooting pool, the guy is drunk, mad maybe packing heat. He shoves you and says "You mess up my shot, a--hole!" Being respectful and disciplined you say to him "I apologize, it was my mistake," and turn and leave, rather than engaging in an argumentative confrontation and "finding out" that he had a firearm. You escape the conflict without harm, you win.

I am somewhat new to Aikido, but from what I read in these forums, mixed with my own personal views and experiences, this is what I feel.

I feel somewhat obligated to post to this topic, because I am a hobbyist gun-owner (law-abiding, non-violent, and responsable).

vanstretch
09-04-2004, 12:03 PM
That would be ideal if that scenario played out nightly in American bars with no further incident nor escalation toward violence. Hell ,this planet would be healed in One second if everyone acted like that. But uh....yeah right.

jonreading
09-07-2004, 01:06 PM
The morbid reality of things say that alot can happen to make you dead. My instructor, and my closest friends carry a weapon (handgun) with them. Many are law enforcement, some are not.
A previous comment mentioned that guns are not defensive weapons, and they are more difficult to work with than most people realize. This is completely true and I think many people don't understand the liability that guns present. But my instructor also explained that martial arts are more than combat, and develop senses and habits that are good to have for combat situations. From him, I have learned how to avoid difficult situations, avoid unwarranted fights, and avoid problems that could lead me into harm. A handgun can't teach me to avoid trouble; a handgun is an aid when I can't avoid trouble.

Ryan Sanford
01-14-2007, 12:12 PM
goodbye Earth,

thanks for all the fish

lmao... am I the only one who got that quote?

Roman Kremianski
01-14-2007, 03:10 PM
I think the fact that death can come for anyone at any moment is not a good enough excuse to "not bother". Get back on the mat!! :uch:

Carlos Rivera
01-14-2007, 04:46 PM
Just train, be good to yourself and others and stop thinking so much.

Why bother with all these hypotethical issues? Aikido is not about what or who you can beat. I like what Seiser Sensei always says at the end of his posts "Now get back to training." That's what should be happening instead of all these "what if" situations. :circle: :square: :triangle:

Guilty Spark
01-14-2007, 06:49 PM
I realise this is an old thread but,

My Sensei was in the special forces in South East Asia during Vietnam. He is always very down to earth about how really, any dim wit can go to a firing range for a day, learn to shoot a 9mm, and blow your 8th Dan ass away. All that training down the drain. How many teachers out ther are honest enough to share this with their students? I think many are afraid that people will think "then why bother!". Has anyone had this problem? Interested in hearing back...

I feel a hell of a lot dumber for being curious about this thread and reading this first post.

Mark Freeman
01-15-2007, 06:11 AM
lmao... am I the only one who got that quote?

No ;)