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John Boswell
08-06-2004, 12:59 PM
:confused:

I've heard that the 2nd Doshu, K. Ueshiba, was also refered to as "Waka Sensei."

I'm just curious if anyone knows why that was the case?

What does "waka" mean in this regard?

Does Moriteru Ueshiba, current Doshu, have a nickname or something similar to his father?

Just curious. I'm a stickler for trivia. ;)

Domo!

Greg Jennings
08-06-2004, 01:18 PM
I believe it means "Young Sensei".

Regards,

Ron Tisdale
08-06-2004, 01:19 PM
From Hanna B at aikido journal...

Here's a Japanese budo gentleman stating that it is very normal to refer to a younger/less accomplished and older/more senior teacher who has the same name, waka sensei (young teacher) and osensei respectively. Any one who has heard this before?

The link she referenced may be found here:

http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=624&forum=8&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&start=0

John Boswell
08-06-2004, 01:26 PM
Wow! Good thread!

O'Sensei = "Senior" Sensei with same name as...

Waka Sensei = "Junior" Sensei to the founder. At least, that's what I gather.

Now see... if " I " were a black belt, I'd probably be known as "Uh Oh Sensei" :D


(*Bad joke... but I couldn't resist!!!*) :p

Don_Modesto
08-06-2004, 01:30 PM
[QUOTE=John BoswellI've heard that the 2nd Doshu, K. Ueshiba, was also refered to as "Waka Sensei."...What does "waka" mean in this regard?[/QUOTE]


"WAKA" means young. While Osensei was alive, Kisshomaru was the young'n. When he became Doshu, it was his son, the current Doshu. I'm betting HIS son, the 4th Doshu, is already affectionately being called WAKA as we speak.

akiy
08-06-2004, 01:35 PM
The current Doshu, Moriteru Ueshiba sensei, was called "Waka sensei" at Aikikai Hombu Dojo until several years ago when he took on the Doshu title. Kisshomaru sensei also had that nickname when he was young, too.

As far as "O" in "O-sensei" meaning "senior" and "Waka" meaning "junior," I do not believe that is the case. The "O" is often written as the same character as "dai" meaning "big, large, and/or grand," but it's probably more often written in Japanese as the same character as "okina" meaning "revered." The "waka" in "Waka sensei" basically means "young" (as Greg wrote above).

Chris? Any other thoughts?
-- Jun

Ron Tisdale
08-06-2004, 01:43 PM
Chris's thoughts: Actually, that's not correct. That kanji is sometimes used, but the kanji for "great" is also sometimes used, and some people even use the kanji for "old". The kanji for "great" is probably the more common (ie, 216 Google hits for "great" versus 176 for "okina", and the Japanese version of Aikido Journal usually uses "great").


and some others may be found here:
http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6342&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=waka

John Boswell
08-06-2004, 02:41 PM
Excellent info. Thanks everyone! :)

senseimike
08-06-2004, 03:17 PM
I remember about 8 or 10 years ago, the title used for the current Doshu was Waka Sensei, explained to me as young teacher, was changed to Dojo Cho. My Sensei said that this change came from above, possibly Aikikai. It was my understanding that the change was made to prepare him for his run as Doshu in the future, to give more respect and prestige to his name. This might be wrong, but was the way I understood it at the time ( I was around 18 at the time, so I didn't understand much.... )

Chris Li
08-06-2004, 04:49 PM
As far as "O" in "O-sensei" meaning "senior" and "Waka" meaning "junior," I do not believe that is the case. The "O" is often written as the same character as "dai" meaning "big, large, and/or grand," but it's probably more often written in Japanese as the same character as "okina" meaning "revered." The "waka" in "Waka sensei" basically means "young" (as Greg wrote above).

Chris? Any other thoughts?
-- Jun

I get slightly more hits on Google for "big" than for "okina", which is usually a fair indicator of usage (Aiki News in Japanese uses "big"). Also, Sokaku Takeda used the kanji "dai", which implies a kind of precedent for that usage. OTOH, Gozo Shioda used "old" ("ro") when writing about Ueshiba in "Aikido Jinsei".

Best,

Chris

Charles Hill
08-06-2004, 06:08 PM
It was my understanding that the change was made to prepare him for his run as Doshu in the future, to give more respect and prestige to his name.

I believe that was when he became Honbu Dojocho, so the title would have reflected that and probably no more.

Charles Hill

batemanb
08-07-2004, 01:04 AM
"WAKA" means young. While Osensei was alive, Kisshomaru was the young'n. When he became Doshu, it was his son, the current Doshu. I'm betting HIS son, the 4th Doshu, is already affectionately being called WAKA as we speak.

When I last trained in Doshu`s class, at the Paris seminar this February, his son was one of his uke`s. He was referred to as waka sensei during the presentations at the end.

rgds

Bryan

Chris Li
08-07-2004, 03:33 PM
I get slightly more hits on Google for "big" than for "okina", which is usually a fair indicator of usage (Aiki News in Japanese uses "big"). Also, Sokaku Takeda used the kanji "dai", which implies a kind of precedent for that usage. OTOH, Gozo Shioda used "old" ("ro") when writing about Ueshiba in "Aikido Jinsei".

Best,

Chris

An added note to my own post - I checked to make sure, and Kisshomaru Ueshiba seems to have used "big" ("dai"), which is fairly convincing to me.

Best,

Chris

Charles Hill
08-07-2004, 03:43 PM
Also, Sokaku Takeda used the kanji "dai", which implies a kind of precedent for that usage.

Chris,

I'm a little confused. In what situation did Sokaku Takeda use the word,"O'Sensei?"

Charles Hill

Chris Li
08-07-2004, 03:48 PM
Chris,

I'm a little confused. In what situation did Sokaku Takeda use the word,"O'Sensei?"

Charles Hill

If you look at Morihei Ueshiba's kyoju dairi certificate you will see that it's signed "Takeda Sokaku Dai-Sensei". The "dai" is the same kanji used by Kisshomaru Ueshiba for the "O" in "O-Sensei", but with a different reading.

Best,

Chris

kiyoshi
09-02-2004, 02:08 PM
Waka-Sensei is not a formal title but is generally used to mean young master. It is a reference to someone who will ascend to a position of leadership (as in this case Doshu). When O'Sensei was alive Ni-Dai Doshu was referred to as Waka-Sensei indicating that he would become Doshu when O'Sensei died. The same case existed when Moriteru Ueshiba was called Waka Sensei while his father was still alive. Once, however, he assumed the official title of Hombu Dojo-Cho that was how he was addressed. After the death of his father he then became San-Dai Doshu or simply Doshu.

I hope this helps.
Kiyoshi