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A D
07-27-2004, 10:17 PM
As I walked in their dojo in Hollywood, Florida they welcomed me onto the mat and I was in a friendly environment. I also got to do an arnis class which I enjoyed quite a lot.

They have a website:

http://www.atemi-ryu.com

I have no prior marital arts experience so I have this question for you guys:

Is anyone against this art or it's founder Dr. Phillip Chenique? If so why?

Thank you for your time,

Alex

Infamousapa
07-27-2004, 11:35 PM
Hollywood...florida?

A D
07-28-2004, 12:26 AM
Come on, don't be so naive!

There are plenty of cities that have names reused in many different states. There is a Hollywood Florida, look at south eastern Florida on the map. Dania Beach...

suren
07-28-2004, 01:22 AM
From their website:

"In 1975, having attained the rank of Shihan, Philip Chenique established his form of Ju-jitsu and christened it "Atemi-Ryu Ju-jitsu".

Excuse me if I'm not correct, but there are not many Shihans today known to the public, so if Philip Chenique is at such a high level I'm sure people here should know him. Any information about this instructor?

batemanb
07-28-2004, 02:02 AM
I looked at their instructor page here http://www.atemi-ryu.com/masters.htm and after seeing honours bestowed by Hall of Fame and World Head Of Family Sokeship Council, immediately thought of e-budo. I did a quick search there and hey presto:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12568&highlight=atemi+ryu

I haven't read it all, but it may give you some more info.

rgds

Bryan

aikidoc
07-28-2004, 07:01 AM
Definitely check the e-budo thread. Beware of the World Head of Sokeship Council members. They have founders and Soke's all over the place.

Steven Scott
07-28-2004, 08:12 AM
I just started a thread an a subject very similar to this ('Cashing In').

I jave to admit that this type of thing at once amuses, riles and scares me to some extent, all at the same time.

What is this 'World Head of Sokeship', I am pretty ignorant about it. Who formed it, where did it start, who authorises it?

etc. etc. etc.

This has probably been asked before but some background would be great

Don_Modesto
07-28-2004, 12:54 PM
As I walked in their dojo in Hollywood, Florida they welcomed me onto the mat and I was in a friendly environment. I also got to do an arnis class which I enjoyed quite a lot.

Is anyone against this art or it's founder Dr. Phillip Chenique? If so why?

I wrote this re: a similar inquiry:

Coming from a traditional aikido background (ASU), I've been training in Atemi-ryu Jujutsu with a student of Chenique's (Gus Hernandez) for going on a year now and am very impressed with his/their ability, sincerity, and open-mindedness. At seminars, I see similar ability/attitude. Their overriding emphasis is unapologetically on street applicability. Chenique's students are centered, quick, have strong technique and a fine training attitude on the mat.

That said, what I have seen of their aikido does not look "traditional"--I haven't seen any SUARI WAZA nor HANMI HANDACHI, for example, and they do incorporate a lot of the Philippine-style slapping ATEMI (for which, presumably, they are named). However, the standing and rear techiques seems pretty similar. If you ended up at this dojo, it would not be a consolation prize. You would benefit from the experience, but it wouldn't be precisely "traditional" judging from my experience.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?p=75343#post75343

As I said, I train with them and I like it. Good folk.

Brad Darr
07-28-2004, 03:49 PM
Having just read the lengthy and heated e-budo debate thread I will summarize the important points.

First Several people on e-budo and one post on this thread have said that Chenique's technique is good and that they are good people
However Chenique does have a long list of questionable or blatantly false credentials, mail order diplomas and doctorates, as well as rankings in arts that either cannot be proven to exist or that he himself has made up

Bottom line if you like training with them then do it. But don't be surprised if people are suspicious or disrespectful of the lineage of the style you train in.

If you would like to train in a aikido I am sure there are many schools in the area ASU, USAF, as well as others with instructors who can legitimately trace their roots back to O'sensei Morihei Ueshiba the founder of aikido.

As for Chenique he falls into that possible good teacher/technician that for some reason feels they need to market themselves as have multiple super high rankings in various arts. Why people who are good at one art feel they need to pad their resume I don't know but there are a lot of them out there and even though they may be good technically or even good people, by lying about credentials they can only hurt themselves in the long run. People are fired from jobs all the time for lying on resumes why should it be any different for someone whose job it is to teach a martial art.

Lastly if you get a chance to read the e-budo thread it is very funny with references to all th following, marines, snipers, WMD in Iraq, the Sniper shootings in Virginia, Louis Faranqan, Gracie JJ, and the Atemi Ryu debate. Its amazing how emotional people can get while typing on a thread on the internet.

Rupert Atkinson
07-28-2004, 08:55 PM
Anyone who trains for ten years or more in any art ought have a lot of skill and be a half decent teacher. Where they trip up is in becoming 10th Dan Dr. Soke with mega dans and mega awards in other arts. That site is just plain funny ;-)

In the 1980s I was completely mad training in several arts - it cost a fortune - and by about 1991 had Shodan in six different, but similar arts. Three BBs I got in the UK were hard to get, three in Japan were rather easier - but I still put in the time and went thru the kyu ranks etc. Had I kept up that madness I might have been 3rd or 4th dan in three or four arts by now - but I could not - it was impossible to maintain. Part of the problem is time; another major problem is politics - seniors of one 'org' often hate it / despise you when you do another art so you just can't keep it all up.

As I said, those guys probably have some skill, but to claim so many dans in so many arts ... it is downright impossible, in my opinion. If they were bricklayers and had a website, they'd probably claim to have a Ph.D in bricklaying (nothing against brickies - their work is pure art, and that's a fact).

Rupert Atkinson
07-28-2004, 11:47 PM
I have studied Japanese and like to think I know a lot of Chinese characters but the one here - top centre - had me completely stumped.
http://www.atemi-ryu.com/pages/9_jpg_jpg_jpg.htm

The same thing appears again here:
http://www.atemi-ryu.com/pages/6_jpg_jpg_jpg.htm

After some thought, it suddenly clicked that it is the kanji for 'atemi', the problem being, that it is written as ONE kanji when it is supposed to be represented by TWO separate kanji. There is no space between the two kanji. I don't think they can claim artistic licence here ... in effect, the 'Japanese' name for their art is unreadable.

Chris Li
07-29-2004, 12:27 AM
I have studied Japanese and like to think I know a lot of Chinese characters but the one here - top centre - had me completely stumped.
http://www.atemi-ryu.com/pages/9_jpg_jpg_jpg.htm

The same thing appears again here:
http://www.atemi-ryu.com/pages/6_jpg_jpg_jpg.htm

After some thought, it suddenly clicked that it is the kanji for 'atemi', the problem being, that it is written as ONE kanji when it is supposed to be represented by TWO separate kanji. There is no space between the two kanji. I don't think they can claim artistic licence here ... in effect, the 'Japanese' name for their art is unreadable.

Actually, I didn't have any trouble reading the kanji. It's not all that unusual to write characters very close together for reasons of presentation. In comparison, try reading this (http://www.nihon-shuji.or.jp/open/features/gfx/image_e02-02b.gif) example of some very nice Japanese calligraphy before complaining about something being "unreadable" :).

Best,

Chris

Rupert Atkinson
07-29-2004, 01:13 AM
OK then. Here's another. I don't think the first kanji is the standard one for the Ju of Jujutsu ... Your thoughts?

http://www.atemi-ryu.com/pages/73_jpg_jpg_JPG.htm

Rupert Atkinson
07-29-2004, 08:54 PM
OK - no reply forthcoming so:

The first (upper character) could be read as: jyuu - tsuwamono = military
Go here and search for [tsuwamono]:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwjdic?1B

Another very similar character is: Jutsu - inu = dog.
http://www.nuthatch.com/kanji/demo/radicals.html
See#62, third character. I like that - Dog Jutsu (the first thing my Japanese friend said when I pointed it out).

I'd say the one they have drawn is in between both but closest to the first one - probably their intention given its pronunciation - Jyuu. I have never seen this character used to represent Jujutsu. The usual Ju (Jyuu - yawa-ra) of Jujutsu is the same as the Jyuu of Judo - (yawa-ra).

Chris Li
07-29-2004, 10:21 PM
OK - no reply forthcoming so:

The first (upper character) could be read as: jyuu - tsuwamono = military
Go here and search for [tsuwamono]:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwjdic?1B

Another very similar character is: Jutsu - inu = dog.
http://www.nuthatch.com/kanji/demo/radicals.html
See#62, third character. I like that - Dog Jutsu (the first thing my Japanese friend said when I pointed it out).

I'd say the one they have drawn is in between both but closest to the first one - probably their intention given its pronunciation - Jyuu. I have never seen this character used to represent Jujutsu. The usual Ju (Jyuu - yawa-ra) of Jujutsu is the same as the Jyuu of Judo - (yawa-ra).

I think that it's quite clearly "tsuwamono" ("juu"), which makes sense given the context. I haven't seen that particular combination before, but the the compound seems understandable to me, since "tsuwamono" is just a word for "warrior".

The kanji "yawara" is common now for empty hand arts, but historically, of course, all kinds of names were in common use. OTOH, nothing wrong with making up your own names - even Morihei Ueshiba did that more than once.

Best,

Chris

Rupert Atkinson
07-29-2004, 11:17 PM
Of course, they are free to use any name they like.

From their website:
http://www.atemi-ryu.com/history_of.htm

I'll quote the first sentence of the last para:

"Ju is a Chinese character meaning pliable (submission, harmonious, adaptable, or yielding). The common translation of Ju as 'gentle' is usually misinterpreted by western man ..."