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senshincenter
07-18-2004, 10:23 PM
The Said and the Unsaid: Things you read in the forums.


“Maybe when you have more years under your belt you will understand. “ = (“Since your opinion is so idiotic right now, maybe later you will have another chance to formulate a point of view more akin to my own.”)

“I mean you no disrespect, but…” = (“Having said, ‘I mean you no disrespect,’ I can now go on to insult you fully without being labeled ‘rude’ under the ethical ideals of Aikido.”)

“I can find nothing decent to say in reply to what you have written. “ = (“I am tired of your position forcing me to re-evaluate myself. Shut up so I can go on with my own emotional and intellectual status quo.”)

“The difficulties of Budo are subtle and intricate, complicated, and therefore I think you may have misunderstood some things.” = (“What you are saying is so different from what I have already swallowed hook-line-and-sinker; I am surprised you have an opposable thumb.”)

“My Shihan said, ‘… ‘” = (“My shihan is God. Your shihan is not my shihan. What is not my God is my devil. Your shihan is the Devil. You and your view are evil. Since you and your view are evil, I can denounce you the rights of human decency.”)

“You have not trained as long as I have. = (“You should forfeit your mind, and your voice, and defer to my own concerning all topics I wish to ‘discuss’ with you.”)

Who is your teacher? = (“I know I do not want to have to think about what you are saying, but I am wondering if you are someone I am supposed to forfeit my own mind and voice to.”)

“You just do not know what you are talking about.” = (“You are crap. I am great. Rather than working to formulate a view different from my own, you should put greater effort into seeing how great I am.”)

“If you truly knew what you were saying, you would…” = (“You are supposed to say the same thing I am saying.”)

“I just want to say this last thing and then I will not say anything else.” = (“I’m so afraid that you have gotten the better of me, or that others will think so, that I was pressured all day by my ego to gain the last word – being unable to simply walk away – in the hopes that you will come to feel like I do now; insecure.”)

“Aikido is about training, about mat time, not about talking.” = (“I believe if I repeat something that everyone else is repeating I can cash in on some cultural capital, and thereby not have to actually address you as a human being by thinking about what you are saying.”)

“Aikido is more than self-defense.” = (“I believe if I repeat something that everyone else is repeating I can cash in on some cultural capital, and thereby not have to actually address you as a human being by thinking about what you are saying.”)

“Aikido is a spiritual endeavor.” = (“I believe if I repeat something that everyone else is repeating I can cash in on some cultural capital, and thereby not have to actually address you as a human being by thinking about what you are saying.”)

Aikido is non-violent. = (“I believe if I repeat something that everyone else is repeating I can cash in on some cultural capital, and thereby not have to actually address you as a human being by thinking about what you are saying.”)

“The ‘street’ is not like the dojo. = (“I believe if I repeat something that everyone else is repeating I can cash in on some cultural capital, and thereby not have to actually address you as a human being by thinking about what you are saying.”)

“Training is a process, not a destination.” = (“I believe if I repeat something that everyone else is repeating I can cash in on some cultural capital, and thereby not have to actually address you as a human being by thinking about what you are saying.)

Chris Birke
07-19-2004, 12:14 AM
I love you David Valadez!

Ian Williams
07-19-2004, 01:52 AM
"I love you David Valadez" - (=I think what you wrote was utter rubbish and I'm sad that I won't get those 2 minutes of my life back I wasted reading that crap)






/tic

spin13
07-19-2004, 02:30 AM
You lucky bastard. It took me more than 2 minutes to read. Stupid people with their stupid educations. Where's my tub of butter?

Ron Tisdale
07-19-2004, 10:39 AM
Hi David,

Just currious about any particular threads you might have in mind...

Ron

senshincenter
07-19-2004, 12:55 PM
Hi Ron,

Well, honestly, this was part joke, more than anything else. It was meant to be maybe just a notch above the thread on a fight that supposedly took place between Seagal and some other person.

However, it is looking like this thread itself can be an answer to your question - lol - wouldn't you agree? I mean it seems to have really pissed a couple of folks off.

I mean it's either that or there are folks out there on the verge of death (with only minutes to spare) that are having folks hold guns to their head so as to make them read various forum threads - this one being one such thread. Or than again, maybe I am just one of those "darn fangl'd col'idge boys that is roo'ning da world wit all dose fancy words n’ ai’ders." Just kidding, but I find it hard to say that there is such a thing as a stupid education. The only stupid education, if we want to have one exist, is no education. (sounds like a bumper sticker)

Oh well - it is all in light fun, I was thinking. Nevertheless, I apologize if readers really were so put out by having to read this post. No aggravation or malice was intended on my part, and I certainly had no inclination to force folks to read this piece of humor. Please forgive.

To my defense though: On my computer, after all, I'm able to skip things and/or stop reading things in the middle, if I so desire.

On the serious side, which I think your question Ron does bring us to…

I think if one wanted to, one could do a full-blown study on the “hypocrisy” and “inconsistency” that exists in light of Aikido/Budo ethics and that is present in many of these threads. I think we would all be shocked if someone was to compile all of these type of replies – for us to read all in one place. Of course, these things would be the product of the “gap” that always takes place culturally and socially between a group’s ideals and a group’s actual practice. That gap is always present, and so we have to expect it. In fact, we have to learn to work with it.

In other words, it is a good test of receiving, blending, holding center, and remaining human and/or courteous in the practice of disagreeing with someone else. Personally, I have found it quite challenging and educational at times. Challenging to let all folks speak, to grant them voice always, to not take things personally, to not feel threatened, to make sure I understand another person’s point of view fully, to make my own point of view fully understandable without degrading the other person I am talking to, etc. In that challenge I have learned a lot about myself in regards to that gap I mentioned above.

But to answer your question more directly Ron, I was “inspired” to write this post by two things (mainly). First was my experience in another thread at Aikido Journal – one Mr. Pranin closed. I was not the target of such aggression, but it was not a pretty sight to witness anyway. What took place seemed unnecessary and completely discordant with all else that was going on. It was a shame it happened. That shame inspired the above post. The second thing that inspired this post was some other threads that I have been reading. There are two in particular. There is the post on why are there so many Aikido federations and there is the one on how Aikido waza is in itself is a type of spiritual purification. These two threads connected for me in this post of my own in the following manner:

Why are there so many divisions in Aikido – federation and personal? Why is it that we can’t find a way of disagreeing, find a way of holding on to our position and presenting it as fully as we can, without being rude and/or degrading? Answer: Because waza in and of themselves do not cultivate or mature the spirit at all.

Mr. Ledyard’s latest article and the thread following it have also played a part here. This is because I too agree that supplementary spiritual or religious practices are needed to truly follow the path that Osensei has demarcated for us all. And I supposed that Mr. Ledyard's article on being judgemental is still in the back of my mind.

Hope that answer helps.

Thanks for replying,
david

Ron Tisdale
07-19-2004, 01:07 PM
Thanks David,

I am aware of the threads you reference. I must admit, I am often disappointed with my own posts, with how easily I can be 'drawn out' by certain people and certain topics as well. And I have often said that aikido keiko can breed a certain passive agressive nature in its adherents. Being on guard sometimes just isn't enough. An outside observer often goes a long way in seeing what is right there in front of you (me).

Thanks for the post, and the explanation. Here's to hoping to live above the fray...and I should note that some of our best posters do that as a matter of course. Others, like myself, continue to fail, but try...

Best (sincerely :) ),
Ron

Richard Elliott
07-19-2004, 09:45 PM
Hello David,

I found your expose of "wicked" pretensions humorous. I think I read a couple of those that I've probably used before... well, well. You might find Jim Zimmerdahl's article in the article section entitled "Honest Practice" interesting. It just reminds me of a painful lesson I've learned and seen learned: perfectionism ain't a state of being; it's a goal, which we partially achieve from time to time. Also, it really amazes me how far simply apologies go for the inevitable "badness" we (well, most of us) perpetrate from time to time.

Cheers,

Lan Powers
07-19-2004, 10:42 PM
I for one, enjoyed them tremendously! (in the spirit of good clean fun, of course).
wicked observations on the hunorous side of the human ego...........
Lan

senshincenter
07-19-2004, 11:10 PM
Hello Richard,

Thank you for replying. I'm sorry, but I can't seem to find the article you mentioned. I would very much like to read it, as you suggested. Might you be able to lead me to it with a little bit more assistance. Would be very grateful.

yours,
david

Richard Elliott
07-19-2004, 11:16 PM
Sure Dave,
It's under the "aikido articles" on this site, in the "Training" section. The title is "Honest Practice."

senshincenter
07-19-2004, 11:32 PM
Thank you so much.
d

Paula Lydon
07-22-2004, 12:06 PM
~~Thanks, David, I'm rolling on the floor! You nailed it! I think I'd add: Empty your cup when you begin Aikido = Even if you have good stuff from previous training we'd like you to forget/not use it as it makes us nervous and works and we are not doing it. Better to throw out old good and bad training and keep only new good and bad Aikido training~~

senshincenter
07-22-2004, 02:46 PM
ah yes - that is a good one Paula! lol

david

shihonage
07-22-2004, 03:17 PM
"Hi Ron,

Well, honestly, this was part joke, more than anything else. It was meant to be maybe just a notch above the thread on a fight that supposedly took place between Seagal and some other person.

However, it is looking like this thread itself can be an answer to your question - lol - wouldn't you agree? I mean it seems to have really pissed a couple of folks off.

I mean it's either that or there are folks out there on the verge of death (with only minutes to spare) that are having folks hold guns to their head so as to make them read various forum threads - this one being one such thread. Or than again, maybe I am just one of those "darn fangl'd col'idge boys that is roo'ning da world wit all dose fancy words n' ai'ders." Just kidding, but I find it hard to say that there is such a thing as a stupid education. The only stupid education, if we want to have one exist, is no education. (sounds like a bumper sticker)

Oh well - it is all in light fun, I was thinking. Nevertheless, I apologize if readers really were so put out by having to read this post. No aggravation or malice was intended on my part, and I certainly had no inclination to force folks to read this piece of humor. Please forgive.

To my defense though: On my computer, after all, I'm able to skip things and/or stop reading things in the middle, if I so desire.

On the serious side, which I think your question Ron does bring us to…

I think if one wanted to, one could do a full-blown study on the "hypocrisy" and "inconsistency" that exists in light of Aikido/Budo ethics and that is present in many of these threads. I think we would all be shocked if someone was to compile all of these type of replies -- for us to read all in one place. Of course, these things would be the product of the "gap" that always takes place culturally and socially between a group's ideals and a group's actual practice. That gap is always present, and so we have to expect it. In fact, we have to learn to work with it.

In other words, it is a good test of receiving, blending, holding center, and remaining human and/or courteous in the practice of disagreeing with someone else. Personally, I have found it quite challenging and educational at times. Challenging to let all folks speak, to grant them voice always, to not take things personally, to not feel threatened, to make sure I understand another person's point of view fully, to make my own point of view fully understandable without degrading the other person I am talking to, etc. In that challenge I have learned a lot about myself in regards to that gap I mentioned above.

But to answer your question more directly Ron, I was "inspired" to write this post by two things (mainly). First was my experience in another thread at Aikido Journal -- one Mr. Pranin closed. I was not the target of such aggression, but it was not a pretty sight to witness anyway. What took place seemed unnecessary and completely discordant with all else that was going on. It was a shame it happened. That shame inspired the above post. The second thing that inspired this post was some other threads that I have been reading. There are two in particular. There is the post on why are there so many Aikido federations and there is the one on how Aikido waza is in itself is a type of spiritual purification. These two threads connected for me in this post of my own in the following manner:

Why are there so many divisions in Aikido -- federation and personal? Why is it that we can't find a way of disagreeing, find a way of holding on to our position and presenting it as fully as we can, without being rude and/or degrading? Answer: Because waza in and of themselves do not cultivate or mature the spirit at all.

Mr. Ledyard's latest article and the thread following it have also played a part here. This is because I too agree that supplementary spiritual or religious practices are needed to truly follow the path that Osensei has demarcated for us all. And I supposed that Mr. Ledyard's article on being judgemental is still in the back of my mind.

Hope that answer helps.

Thanks for replying,
david"

________________

Translation:

There's nothing wrong with your computer. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. I am now in control of the horizontal, and the vertical.
I can give you headaches of any possible size that I can conceive.

I can answer an eleven-word question with seven hundred sixty-two words and yet, say absolutely nothing.
My posts can make Shakespeare feel like a kid with attention deficit syndrome.
"War and Peace" ? Hah. Don't make me laugh.
It is merely a scribbled note, a blink on the radar compared to the godlike mastery of self-expression that I possess.

I ... am David Valadez.

When your mind flutters like a dying bird as your eyes dart from paragraph to paragraph, trying to find some resemblance of coherency in the vast landscape of my posts...
... when your efforts prove futile and you feel your sanity slipping away from you to give place to unabashed madness, remember this - YOUR SOUL IS MINE.

senshincenter
07-22-2004, 04:25 PM
You forgot to put the evil laugh at the end - "Bwooohaaa haaa ahaaaahaaa"

lol - ;-)

Again - sorry if you were put out by reading this piece.

dmv

Infamousapa
07-22-2004, 11:20 PM
This Is The Reason I Quit Aikido And Went On Back To Muay Thai..aikido Just Plain Out Makes You Weird.

shihonage
07-23-2004, 01:11 AM
Aikido makes you weird, Muai Thai makes you age faster.
There's nowhere to run !