Ki; How do you train your Ki?

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[ronin_10562]

In Nihon Goshin Aikido we have 15 Ki techniques and we must be able to perform 10 for ShoDan. The reason we train in Ki is to develop Mushin (mind of no mind. in other words you must be centered and aware of your environment with out mentally focusing on any one thing.). Through our training we learn to control our mind and body even in adversity. That is the test. Assume two people are trying to lift you, and you remain calm and relaxed they will not be able to and while they are lifting the last part of the test is to do a front kick while keeping the other foot on the mat. If you are centered you will succeed and if your not centered up you go.
How does this help you in battle? Through thousands of repetitions of your techniques your body knows how to react. But your mind may hinder your natural ability to respond to attacks. By being centered you will see the attacks clearly and the body will respond accordingly.

Does any one else train in Ki techniques? Do you believe in Ki?


Walt

[DiNalt]

ronin_10562 wrote:

Does any one else train in Ki techniques? Do you believe in Ki?


Yes, however I don't believe in the "unliftable body" trick :)

[ronin_10562]

I don't think of Ki as another form of energy. I feel that Ki is when the body and mind are in sync, through proper posture and breathing. The purpose of Ki exercise is to devolop Mushin. Or to state it another way when you are in Mushin you are extending Ki. I don't give Ki to much credit as a super energy source that will cure the ill or give you super powers.
My personal definition of Ki exercise is to get to a state of mind. Have you ever had the experience of having the attacker seemingly moving in slow motion and you have a lot of time to set up the perfect response? I think that is the most common experience, and by training in Ki you are able to get that ability frequently.


Walt

[tedehara]

ronin_10562 wrote:
I don't think of Ki as another form of energy. I feel that Ki is when the body and mind are in sync, through proper posture and breathing. The purpose of Ki exercise is to devolop Mushin. Or to state it another way when you are in Mushin you are extending Ki. I don't give Ki to much credit as a super energy source that will cure the ill or give you super powers.
My personal definition of Ki exercise is to get to a state of mind. Have you ever had the experience of having the attacker seemingly moving in slow motion and you have a lot of time to set up the perfect response? I think that is the most common experience, and by training in Ki you are able to get that ability frequently.


Walt

Hi Walt,

Glad to see you're posting here! :)

In the Ki Society and related styles of Aikido, Ki Development is a separate program of training. Ki breathing, ki meditation, ki exercises, kiatsu-ho (accupressure) and ki testing are taught separate from aikido training. Then in the aikido practice, ki testing (see: http://www.aikiweb.com/spiritual/reed2.html) is used to determine if you're practicing correctly.

Personally, I tend to agree with you, in that it's better to consider such stuff as mind and body coordination, rather than try and lump it all under the concept of Ki.

Actually, the theories on Ki by Koichi Tohei, 10th dan, head instructor under O Sensei and founder of Intl. Ki Society, originated from Tempu Nakamura of Tempukai (see: http://www.michionline.org/spring00/page12.html ). Tempu Nakamura is known in Japan like Norman Vincent Peale or Dale Carnegie is in the USA. Nakamura's organization (Tempukai), taught a Positive Mental Attitude for living and is well known in the Japanese business community.

While many of O Sensei's students complained of not understanding O Sensei explanations of his aikido, Koichi Tohei Sensei wrote that he could make sense of O Sensei's aikido by applying the practices and theories of Nakamura Sensei. Of course, Tohei Sensei and others have since added on their own theories & training methods to their program of aikido practice.

While I have seen time subjectively slow down, this hasn't occurred on the mat, but in the "real world". Each time it was a highly intense episode of life. I see it more like your body telling you - Better be Careful! ;)


[Edited by tedehara on February 25, 2001 at 09:08am]

[Catherine]

"I don't believe in the "unliftable body" trick" -DiNalt

Why not? I am a relatively small person -weighing only 90 pounds. Everyone else in my dojo is at least twice my weight, yet if I use weight underside, they cannot lift me up. My brother can't lift me up, and I know he (at least) would not lie. Although, I have to admit I don't think I could keep weight underisde while doing a kick- besides, is a kick even aiki?

[DiNalt]

Catherine wrote:
"I don't believe in the "unliftable body" trick" -DiNalt

Why not? I am a relatively small person -weighing only 90 pounds. Everyone else in my dojo is at least twice my weight, yet if I use weight underside, they cannot lift me up. My brother can't lift me up, and I know he (at least) would not lie. Although, I have to admit I don't think I could keep weight underisde while doing a kick- besides, is a kick even aiki?

I don't know what the trick is based on - weight shifting or the fact that you become limp and simply slide out of the person's arms.

I don't particularly believe in it though because I saw a high-ranking person demonstrate it and it didn't work.

[Erik]

DiNalt wrote:
I don't know what the trick is based on - weight shifting or the fact that you become limp and simply slide out of the person's arms.

I don't particularly believe in it though because I saw a high-ranking person demonstrate it and it didn't work.

I look at the ki tricks with a somewhat similar perspective. I was fed a lot of stuff about the unbendable arm and flowing ki through it. Looking at the mechanics of the situation and how muscles work the answer is really much more mundane--if muscles don't work against one another, they are much stronger. It just so happens that the visualization does help produce the desired result.

[tedehara]

DiNalt wrote:
[QUOTE]
I don't know what the trick is based on - weight shifting or the fact that you become limp and simply slide out of the person's arms.

I don't particularly believe in it though because I saw a high-ranking person demonstrate it and it didn't work.

:D That's it exactly! You need to know why this works and what it's demonstrating!

Even though this seems like a simple TRICK, there are several important ways you can go wrong. This doesn't matter how high ranking the person is.

But look at it this way:[list=1]
Expert A does a shiho-nage and it works :)
I try the same shiho-nage and it doesn't work :(
Does this mean the shiho-nage technique doesn't work :confused:
NO! It just means that my shiho-nage technique doesn't work :eek:[/list=1]
Of course, this means you need to suspend your disbelief until you can find someone who can adequately demonstrate and explain unliftable body.

Be patient, there are people out there who can show you. It may not be tomorrow or even next month, but if you keep your eyes open, you'll find them.

[Jim23]

ronin_10562 wrote:
attacker seemingly moving in slow motion and you have a lot of time to set up the perfect response?

Yes, when someone ran a red light and broadsided me! Is that Ki? Only problem is that my car was hit.

I don't really believe in that ki stuff. Perhaps it's called focus, peak state, or whatever.

Sure ain't magic!

Jim23

[andrew]

ronin_10562 wrote:
Does any one else train in Ki techniques? Do you believe in Ki?


We all train in "Ki" when we do Kokyo-ho. (We do all do that, right?) Or at least, it's described as a ki-developing exercise in "Budo."

andrew

[Mabuse]

I was confused by unbendable arm for some time. I just didn't understand the concept. I read "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" and tried the visualization it described, and it worked! Only after I had experienced it did I think about the scientific explanation and start to "understand" it that way as well.

So, for me, ki works _like_ magic, but I don't believe it _is_ magic. The important thing is that visualizing ki works. Somehow the concept works with the body to achieve the results.

So I stopped worrying about the mechanics and science, and started using ki. I still analyse things sometimes, but it's just out of curiousity, and not necessary for my practice.

I think this was one of the most important steps in my training so far.

[TheProdigy]

Hey, I must say I've become quite fascinated with the concept of ki, and although I'm new to martial arts in general I believe its very real. Now, I do believe that people give credit to ki when ki had nothing to do with it (not sure how much, but it seems like it so far). I'm soon to be taking some Tai chi classes to begin understand it more fully (and from what I hear about people in it, their utilization of ki(chi/Qi) can be very powerful.

Those that deny its existance though, I'm curious how long it took you to come up with that conclusion...? Afterall, did you simply assume its not possible? or did you spend 20years with guidence to try and understand it without success? Because, if it was the former I personally wouldn't rule out the possibility of its existance. Humans are capable of some extremely powerful things, and to simply assume something isn't possible is a fast route to limiting your potential.

As for the unliftable body "trick", I've had a shodan 90lbs girl demonstrate it to me... and, she started by letting me which was very easy. Then, same posture, stance and everything she was unliftable, and yes I lift with my legs, good posture, etc.. I suppose relaxation and a steady mind were the cause of her suddenly being unliftable, but regardless it went from super easy to impossible against all my strength (lol and no she didnt jump with it the 1st time.. felt about 100lbs, and i lift weights). By the way, her arm dont bend or raise either lol unless she wants it to... lots of it in the mind from what I've experienced.

Good luck in your pursuits of ki.

-Jase

P.S. If you dont think its possible to do then, for you, it wont be.

[ronin_10562]

Yes you can do some or maybe all ki exercises like a trick. If you do it that way then you've missed the point.

As for kicking when some students are trying to lift you the reason again is mind control. You just added another degree of dificulty to the ki exercise. It is hard enough keeping both feet on the ground with two people trying to lift you just try raising one leg up and stay centered. The other way of practicing this is by allowing them to pick you up and then you center and sink back to the floor.

Walt

[Chris P.]

ronin_10562 wrote:
In Nihon Goshin Aikido we have 15 Ki techniques and we must be able to perform 10 for ShoDan. The reason we train in Ki is to develop Mushin (mind of no mind. in other words you must be centered and aware of your environment with out mentally focusing on any one thing.). Through our training we learn to control our mind and body even in adversity. That is the test. Assume two people are trying to lift you, and you remain calm and relaxed they will not be able to and while they are lifting the last part of the test is to do a front kick while keeping the other foot on the mat. If you are centered you will succeed and if your not centered up you go.
How does this help you in battle? Through thousands of repetitions of your techniques your body knows how to react. But your mind may hinder your natural ability to respond to attacks. By being centered you will see the attacks clearly and the body will respond accordingly.

Does any one else train in Ki techniques? Do you believe in Ki?
Walt

Every technique I practice is a Ki technique. I don't believe in Ki because of any explanation I've heard. I only believe my own experience.

That said, I have heard many strange claims about applications of Ki. I have heard people say "use Ki" when IMO they should have said "keep your balance", "use leverage", "better timing", etc. I have seen people try "unliftable body" and "unbendable arm", without success. Any shmuck can talk about Ki, few if any can prove it, and that does NOT make it any less real.

If you can truly achieve "unliftable body" by Shodan, I think you must be extremely talented. I would like to come by and practice with you some time. Where do you train?

[tedehara]

Chris P. wrote:

...If you can truly achieve "unliftable body" by Shodan, I think you must be extremely talented. I would like to come by and practice with you some time. Where do you train?

If you find this stuff interesting, then why not drop by
The Seattle Ki Society
6106 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA
Phone: (206) 527-2151
Instructor: Koichi Kashiwaya, 8th dan
E-mail: aikidoki@ix.netcom.com

Kashiwaya Sensei is also the head of the USA Ki Society. You've got one of the best groups to observe ki stuff right next to you!

[TheProdigy]

Hey, I just wanted to add a quick bit to what I said earlier regarding these ki "tricks", such as unliftable body and unbendable arm. In my dojo (kokikai style), the emphasis with these techniques is relaxation! Relax completely and keep one point and they somehow work.

Just tonight, a brown belt weighing about 155 was teaching the basics class. He demonstrated the unliftable body, first showing how much more difficult it was when he shifted his weight down. Then standing upright and very relaxed he was unliftable. Another guy who looked about 200lbs and an ex-boxer was doing the lifting (he's new to aikido). So, I can't say why they work exactly, but they do. It was a great class tonight btw...

Have a good one,
-Jase

P.S. Great discussion here too btw...

[ronin_10562]

Chris P
My dojo is located at 95 Croton Ave Ossining NY or you can contact me at nihongoshinaikido.com
Another link with most NGA dojos is http://www.ngaikido.com/links.html.


When an Instructor says use your ki to correct a student that maybe because that is the root of the problem and not the symptom. That is the dificult part of teaching. I find that some students will make the same mistakes over and over even when they understand the correction that is given. That is because I have treated only the symptom and not the cause. An example in my own training; I was trying to do I kyu from a club attack and it was always a struggle to get the correct grip and ukes arm in the correct position. Mr. Bowe pointed out that my footwork wasn't correct. Once the footwork was corrected the technique would just fall into place. So the symptom was the poor hand position but the root of the problem was the footwork.
So lack of Ki can be the root to many problems of doing technique.

Walt

[kFc]

Here is a good link which shows you how to do these "tricks" as well as trying to explain the meaning behind them. Very interesting read:

http://www.bodymindandmodem.com/CoolKi/CoolKi.html

Nicki

[Chris P.]

ronin_10562 wrote:
When an Instructor says use your ki to correct a student that maybe because that is the root of the problem and not the symptom. That is the dificult part of teaching. I find that some students will make the same mistakes over and over even when they understand the correction that is given. That is because I have treated only the symptom and not the cause. An example in my own training; I was trying to do I kyu from a club attack and it was always a struggle to get the correct grip and ukes arm in the correct position. Mr. Bowe pointed out that my footwork wasn't correct. Once the footwork was corrected the technique would just fall into place. So the symptom was the poor hand position but the root of the problem was the footwork.
So lack of Ki can be the root to many problems of doing technique.

Walt

That is a good point, but I don't think it applies to Ki in the same sense it applies to footwork.

I have yet to meet anyone who would benefit from a "use more Ki" criticism. If they knew how, they would almost certainly be doing it already, and if they didn't, this tip would be useless.

Also, I never seen a technique with a poor physical expression, salvaged by use of Ki. Have you ever heard anyone talk about O-Sensei's terrible posture?

That reminds me of "The Matrix": Ki can bend the rules, but it can't break them.

[Edited by Chris P. on March 12, 2001 at 06:56pm]

[ronin_10562]

I agree with you that some instructors for lack of teaching skills fall back to correcting the students with mystical terms. Instead of concrete corrections, and the the reason maybe the way traditional Japanese MA are taught. The instructor demonstrates with out saying much and you have to practice untill you get it. Some people will get it physically but not understand it intellectualy. If you can't verbalize what it is then how can you teach it.
I hope this post makes sense.
Walt

[akiy]

ronin_10562 wrote:
I agree with you that some instructors for lack of teaching skills fall back to correcting the students with mystical terms. Instead of concrete corrections, and the the reason maybe the way traditional Japanese MA are taught
So, for those who believe that "ki" is mystical, how would you go about explaining it?

-- Jun

[ronin_10562]

You are asking the wrong person to to define the mystical Ki. I feel that it is a coodernation of the mind and body. I teach it as such and if you look at the first few posts I give a longer definiton.
I think that some people get involved in Aki arts for the wrong reason, that is to get this super mystical power and astound thier friends with its magical ability. Find a good teacher train consistently and practice the whole art, mentally as well as physically.

Walt

[REK]

Hmmmmm.

As a student of human behavior I am struck by the responses to this post. I wonder if your individual responses would remain the same if you replaced the word "God" for the word "ki" in this thread.

(Note: I am not endorsing any particular position, just wondering if your scientific skepticism extends to your spirituality :D)

Rob

[Chris P.]

ronin_10562 wrote:
I agree with you that some instructors for lack of teaching skills fall back to correcting the students with mystical terms. Instead of concrete corrections, and the the reason maybe the way traditional Japanese MA are taught. The instructor demonstrates with out saying much and you have to practice untill you get it. Some people will get it physically but not understand it intellectualy. If you can't verbalize what it is then how can you teach it.
I hope this post makes sense.
Walt

Words are only useful in the context of shared experience. I think any description of the body's subtle forces is necessarily inadequate.

The ancient classics tell us how to practice, but generally not how to conceptualize what is happening. Is this because the old masters were all stupid, or because they thought intellectual "understanding" of the practice was useless? Who am I to disagree? This is not merely a matter of culture, it is a universal truth.

[Chris P.]

REK wrote:
Hmmmmm.

As a student of human behavior I am struck by the responses to this post. I wonder if your individual responses would remain the same if you replaced the word "God" for the word "ki" in this thread.

(Note: I am not endorsing any particular position, just wondering if your scientific skepticism extends to your spirituality :D)


I would say exactly the same thing. "Don't try to lecture about God. Come back when you can manifest the truth yourself. Then you have earned the right to talk. Anything else is conjecture."

[ronin_10562]

So are you practicing religion when you are practicing Aikido? in some dojos I think its true. I have no problem with that as long as the students understand this.

Walt

[Ray Kissane]

In Nihon Goshin Aikido we talk about KI techniques as a re-direction of engery. We do not talk about KI as a magic or mystical power that is for others to explain.
As westerners it is much easier to think of it as physics. Whether it is an unbendable arm or two people are trying to lift you, there is energy being applied and you need to try and re-direct it with out using strength. That is the hard part.
Also Walt, since you are no longer a member of our association why do you keep refering to your system as Nihon Goshin Aikido?

[Nick]

ronin_10562 wrote:
So are you practicing religion when you are practicing Aikido? in some dojos I think its true. I have no problem with that as long as the students understand this.

Walt

I try to practice my religion at all points-- some may make a religion out of Aikido, and that's ok with them. For me, it's a fresh way for me to look at my religion and why I do the things that I do. It has been an excellent adjunct to my faith, but not a replacement.

Nick

P.S-- as for replacing ki with God-- check out some the early Taoist work, epsecially Chuang Tzu, and replace Tao with God... perhaps we're not all quite as different as we think, neh?

[Nick]

Chris P. wrote:
The ancient classics tell us how to practice, but generally not how to conceptualize what is happening. Is this because the old masters were all stupid, or because they thought intellectual "understanding" of the practice was useless? Who am I to disagree? This is not merely a matter of culture, it is a universal truth. [/B]

I've been in Aikido long enough now to know a shihonage from a tenchinage, a tenakn movement from an irimi, a kubi otoshi from an ago-tsuki age, etc. I can see a technique performed, and more than likely identify the attack and response. However, if I'm up there doing the technique, I may think I know what I have to do, but it all seems to come out as a mess. It's lead me to realize that if you "know" a technique in your head and not in your heart, I mean like your whole being, than you don't "know" anything at all...

"Has any man ever obtained wisdom by pondering the works of others? Not since the world began. He must pass through the fire."
-Norman Douglas


Nick

[ronin_10562]

"I may think I know what I have to do, but it all seems to come out as a mess. It's lead me to realize that if you "know" a technique in your head and not in your heart, I mean like your whole being, than you don't "know" anything at all... "


This is the point of training with Ki exercise. Train with the techniques untill they are a part of you and train the mind to be settled so that it allows the body to respond.

Walt

[Anubis Gohan]

Is there somewone out there who could teach me a method to increaase ki dramitcaly. If that dosent exist please teach me to relase ki energy in bursts.
-Brad Cook

[Nick]

Go into the mountains of Japan, and look for a man named Ryu-- he will teach you the "hadoken" technique, which is executed by crouching and pressing punch twice...

Ki isn't like kinetic energy or adrenaline-- it can't be taught or really even explained, only experienced...

Nick

[Jim23]

Anubis Gohan wrote:
Is there somewone out there who could teach me a method to increaase ki dramitcaly. If that dosent exist please teach me to relase ki energy in bursts.
-Brad Cook


Can't help you there, but I can with your spelling.

http://www.onelook.com/

Jim23

[Anubis Gohan]

is there no other way than to go to japan

[Steve Speicher]

Well, I hope you are pulling our leg Anubis!! If not, read on. You must have missed the sarcasm in the response (which I found quite funny, Ninja Gaiden-ish).

You sound very young, if not don't be offended, just realize that what you seek isn't a secret held by one person, or a secret to be learned that will allow you to unleash devastating power.

My advice to you is to find a quality dojo, and begin training. In time your understanding will develop and the nature of your question will change considerably.

If training isn't on your path, try reading some books on ki, philosophy will do much more for you than fantasy novels. (Don't get me wrong, fantasy books are great for entertainment, not necessarily for factual info).

Good luck on your journey, and please let us know if you do ever find how to 'dramatically increase your ki ability, and release ki in short bursts'.

Peace,

[Anubis Gohan]

I am somewht young (13) i am pretty sure that it is possible i also need a large ammount of info for a report

[Anubis Gohan]

Nick Wickh mountan was it that Ryu is on and are you jokeing me?
-Brad Cook

[Nick]

Ryu is a character in a fighting game called Street Fighter, whose primary attack is a fireball called a "hadoken"... the response was not meant to be serious, I apologize if this comes off as hurtful or insulting, as it was meant in jest. Steve summed up my thoughts pretty well-- Ki is not a power that can be built up, and released at will to the destruction of whomever you don't like... Ki is used from words like the weather (tenki), lunacy (kichigai) and even a carburetor on a car (kikaki)... the basic philosophy behind Chi or Ki is that it's like spiritual energy (kind of), and many believe that their Aikido helps them to coordinate and unify their mind and body, as to control their ki, and really, their lives. I'd say go find a good dojo (I'd recommend the dojo listing on this web page), and begin to train. As aforementioned, ki can't really be explained but experienced, however it's not any kind of magical force or energy.

Nick

[Chris P.]

Anubis Gohan wrote:
Is there somewone out there who could teach me a method to increaase ki dramitcaly.

Yiquan.

[Anubis Gohan]

i do not play street fighter and there is also a char. Ryu in the anime cartoon ronin warriors also if anywone would like to tell me the avrage prices and times for ki aikido clases (so that i can see if they conflict with tekwon-do scedule) it would be greatly apprecieated and if anywone is intrested in learning about my style of martial arts i am inventing just ask and any help i could get on anything would be replyed with great thanks...
-Brad Cook
P.S. forgive my spelling

[Anubis Gohan]

acculy in a raw state if you sum up ki it can be relased i nthe way you put it at people you dont like but it takes much practice and i would say about a life times worth of meditation
-Brad Cook
P.S. forgive my spelling

[andrew]

Anubis Gohan wrote:
acculy in a raw state if you sum up ki it can be relased i nthe way you put it at people you dont like but it takes much practice and i would say about a life times worth of meditation
-Brad Cook
P.S. forgive my spelling


Anubis-
Ki is a very short but very complicated word. There's no equivalent word or definition in English or any western language.
In the book "The Spirit of Aikido" by Kissomharu Ueshiba, which you might be able to borrow off someone, there's an attempt to explain Ki over a couple of pages near the start. So far as I recall he ends up discussing biorhythms (the effect of the length of a day/ lunar cycle/ orbit around the sun etc. on living creatures. They're complicated but well defined in a scientific sense) and suggests that Ki might be related to them. (We're all affected by thousands of biorhythms, some older than the planet. Some are tiny, some are big.)
There's a lot about the idea of "ki" that he explains before that, though. It's worth having a look for at any rate.

If you've got a report maybe you should think about what various people think ki is rather than what it is. Deciding what it is sounds very difficult, finding peoples opinions and thinking about those would be easier, and a lot better in fact.

Good luck!

andrew

[Anubis Gohan]

Still is there any way... and yet if not will somewone teach mne your own ki devolpment ways?

[ronin_10562]

Get the book " Ki in Daily Life" by Koichi Tohei

Spend every waking moment doing the breathing exersice and in 3 to 6 months you will be amazed at your Ki

Walt

[giriasis]

Anubis,

What people are trying to let you know is that there is no quick way to learn about ki. Using ki is not like Luke Skywalker using the Force. (and I mean this without being derogatory, I love Star Wars myself.) Ki is much more subtle than that. The book "Ki:a road that anyone can wallk" is a good book, but if you really want to learn more about ki you need to get yourself into a dojo. You also need to give yourself the patience to learn it.

If you want to find a Ki Aikido school go to the dojo search found here on aikiweb and on http://www.aikidofaq.com Some schools list their times on the web others you'll have to call and find out.

Good luck,
anne marie giri

[Jim23]

Anne Marie,

I think he's legging your pull.:)

"If that dosent exist please teach me to relase ki energy in bursts."

Jim23

[giriasis]

Think not do I. 13 years old he is. Wishes to use ki he does.

speak correctly with yodaese need you to learn. ;)

In other words. Jim I really think he is serious. I have seen this belief on other (non-martial arts bulletin boards). Given movies (Star Wars)and cartoons (Dragonballs), it is not unusual to find young kids assuming that ki is something magical and supernatural that they can do amazing things with. The problem comes from George Lucas basing "the Force" on Ki/Chi/prana/God. These words are real words used in our daily lives. Because that is real the logical jump is made that they possess supernatural powers.

Anne Marie Giri

[Jim23]

I've found someone who understands my sense of non-humour! AND she does aikido. Hey Anne Marie;)

Check out his profile.

Jim23

[giriasis]

Yup.

He meets the profile of those people I mentioned on "other bulletin boards."

May the Force be With You ;)

Anne Marie Giri

[tedehara]

giriasis wrote:
...The problem comes from George Lucas basing "the Force" on Ki/Chi/prana/God. These words are real words used in our daily lives. Because that is real the logical jump is made that they possess supernatural powers.

Anne Marie Giri

WHAT??? :confused:

Are you saying I can't use the Force by reading webpages like A Way to the Force (http://www.quantumlight.com/theforce/writings/force/the_force.htm) by Yoda of Dagobah!!!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Jim23]

That's funny.
Jim23

[JimmyC]

does anyone think there might be a connection to Ki energy and mental abilities, such as telepathy or anything like that? I personally know that Dragon Ball Z-like Ki energy does not exist (though it would be great if it did), but the existence of personal Ki energy is something I believe in. Ki can be used to block out pain, increase your focus, and things like that. Does anyone think that adrenaline and Ki are connected in any way at all? I would love to see some of the responses.

Jim

[mj]

Hi, look, I know this isn't really to do with the posts, but I read it from the posts by Anubis Gohan...

"Do Not despise the snake for it has no horns for one day it may become a dragon"

That's from an old chinese TV series (NOT Monkey!) that they used to show, Lin Chung and all his mates doing mad 'wire-frame' fighting and stuff like that.

Does anyone remember what it's called. It's killing me. :confused:

[mj]

:D It's Ok... I've got it, The Water Margin. Sorry about that.

[Chocolateuke]

people you do amazing things with your ki right now!! you use life force to breath and walk. that is why O Sensi said if you can walk you can do Aikido. your movement is directly connected to you ki because ki is what keeps you alive. yes Star wars made it look like only those of the Jedi can use Ki ( erm the Foce!!) but the fact is if we all tried to devolpoe our ki power and consintration we can to move objects. I have not seen this yet but I have seen some other amazing stuff like that. Ki is In all and all do mericals with it everyday !! My opion

[crystalwizard]

Nick wrote:
[B
Ki isn't like kinetic energy or adrenaline-- it can't be taught or really even explained, only experienced...

Nick [/B]

oh nonsense. It most certainly can be explained. and it doesn't require a mystical, magical, fantastical explination either.

"A mind is like a library. Much more useful when open"



[Edited by crystalwizard on April 1, 2001 at 03:51am]

[crystalwizard]

JimmyC wrote:
does anyone think there might be a connection to Ki energy and mental abilities, such as telepathy or anything like that? I personally know that Dragon Ball Z-like Ki energy does not exist (though it would be great if it did), but the existence of personal Ki energy is something I believe in. Ki can be used to block out pain, increase your focus, and things like that. Does anyone think that adrenaline and Ki are connected in any way at all? I would love to see some of the responses.

Jim

You watch too much TV.

[Nick]

crystalwizard wrote:
Nick wrote:


Ok then-- could you please explain it for me?

Nick

[tedehara]

Nick wrote:
...Ok then-- could you please explain it for me?

Nick

Maybe the answer is under your nose, or at least on this website. See The Value of Ki Study (http://www.aikiweb.com/spiritual/simcox1.html) by Simcox Sensei. :cool:

[andrew]

Anubis Gohan wrote:
Still is there any way... and yet if not will somewone teach mne your own ki devolpment ways?

Ask somebody to show your Kokyo-ho. There. That's a ki development exercise.

andrew

[Dall Star]

Well - I guess that I'm telling something that many people said before. But anyway I will tell it again :).

I think that learning techniques in Aikido is just a way to lear how to user your Ki. I beliefe that Aikido without training a Ki is like sharping the stick with plastic knife instead of steel knife. Well... unfortunately there is no Ki training in my Dojo so I'm unable to verify my thoughts...

So - if any one of you have any experiences with Ki training please give me a sign.

Grateful in advance
Dall Star

[tedehara]

Dall Star wrote:
...So - if any one of you have any experiences with Ki training please give me a sign.

Grateful in advance
Dall Star

A sign like this?
http://www.aikiweb.com/aikicards/images/thumbnails/takase/ki_t.jpg

If you're also interested in Ki, you can check out The Chicago Ki Society Annex (http://www.geocities.com/tedehara)


[Edited by tedehara on April 2, 2001 at 08:47pm]

[crystalwizard]

are in the 'mystic wannabe' class. The first step to actualy learning how to use 'ki' or 'chi' or however you want to spell it is to get your head out of the clouds and stop daydreaming. The second step is to stop desperately wanting that knowledge so badly. Untill you acomplish those two steps, nothing anyone says or does to explaine anything will get through to you.

Someone mentioned an article that the late George Simcox Sensei wrote in the archives. Others have posted rather mundane answers...but the wannabe's out there will ignore all that ...looking instead for the flashy, hollywood inspired answer.....and never see what's right in front of their face.

Those people the con artists have a field day with...dont be one of them.


[Edited by crystalwizard on April 2, 2001 at 01:56pm]

[Anubis Gohan]

just because i am young dosent mean i am not philisofical i think that gorge lucas didnt meant to think of kibut of teleknesisyour just over thinking i. and i do belive ki is mixed with teleknesis to perform dragonball z ish type things.
-Brad Cook

[akiy]

Anubis Gohan wrote:
i do belive ki is mixed with teleknesis to perform dragonball z ish type things.
-Brad Cook
I remember a story told by George Simcox sensei who was at the dinner table with Koichi Tohei sensei when a reporter asked Tohei sensei if he could move (if I remember correctly) a salt shaker across the table with his "ki." Tohei sensei smiled and said, "Why, of course!" Tohei sensei then reached out with his hand, picked up the salt shaker, and put it down across the table.

-- Jun

[Guest_779]

crystalwizard wrote:
Others have posted rather mundane answers...but the wannabe's out there will ignore all that ...looking instead for the flashy, hollywood inspired answer.....and never see what's right in front of their face.


Well put.

[Guest_779]

JimmyC wrote:
.....the existence of personal Ki energy is something I believe in. Ki can be used to block out pain, increase your focus, and things like that. Does anyone think that adrenaline and Ki are connected in any way at all? I would love to see some of the responses.

Jim

I think you're right on track. Keep searching and you will find out.

[Anubis Gohan]

i Still think i am right
-Brad Cook

[Nick]

So then why do you continue to come if you're right and we're all wrong?

Also, George Lucas has said in many interviews that "The Force" was based off of the Eastern philosophy of ki/chi/prana, and thought this isn't verified, I believe he practiced aikido for a little bit.

I'm not ruling it out, because I believe that nothing is impossible... I just think it's extremely unlikely...

Nick

[giriasis]

Anubis you just proved Crystalwizard right.

If you think you have the answers then why come here? We are Aikido practitioners. That means most of us here practice aikido in the real world and deal with ki in the proper perspective and context.

I you want to learn about ki study aikido, Tai Chi, Chi Kung, etc.

You can theorize and hypothesize all you want, but you won't get the depth of understanding you wish until you commit yourself to real training.

Anne Marie

[mle]

My instructor back in Texas came from a branch of Ki Society aikido called Seidokan.

He told me ki was transferred to you from your instructor via sweat.

*grinning*

mle

[Aikidoka2000]

Here here!
:)
Although that IS kinda gross..
haha!
-Tom

[Aikidoka2000]

This is for Kelly A.K.A. Crystal Wizard:
Something to ponder:
With respect to KI.
You seem to refute that which is called mystical or magical and it would seem
that you are a believer in cold hard, provable facts, and therefore dismiss all
others as fallacies. I don't blame you, in fact, given the common mindset, it
makes sense and it quite logical and understandable.
However:
When we state that there are no things which are "Mystical and Magical"
Perhaps one may not observe one large point:
Is not the very nature of a human existence and life THE most mystical and
magical thing in itself?
Allow me to define that.
We can say, Oh, there is nothing mystical and magical about life, it can be
explained by natural science, i.e.,
Biological processes
Molecular processes with respect to DNA. Atomic, subatomic and quantum
particles and their relationship to one another.

So then I submit that if a human in nothing more that a collection of cells, then
DNA, then molecules, the atomic particles, then quantum particles
Then, what is beyond this?
We break it down, down, down, to the beyond the quantum level where science
and logic and cold hard facts fail us.
So in our search to find the answers, we find more questions.
For all that we DO know as humans, this is only a tiny particle of truth.
I submit to you that the very nature of ALL existence on the Macro and Micro
levels are indeed Mystical and enigmatic and yes, even at times magical.
It would be supremely arrogant state that these are not so.
To argue otherwise is to claim ultimate wisdom.
Don't you agree?
-Tom

[Robert Cowham]

As others have mentioned, look into chi kung (qiqong) in particular for some good exercises that will develop things.

The things that I have found particularly valuable are variations on standing stake (literally just standing still with knees slightly bent and your arms in various postures). A good book on this is "The Way of Energy : Mastering the Chinese Art of Internal Strength With Chi Kung Exercise"
by Lam Kam Chuen.

There are others that are also good.

As to what you can do with ki, then opinions vary (to say the least!).

For example, I have seen in person Rich Mooney demonstrate "ki at a distance" - the ability to move people without touching them (there are mpegs on the web for those interested). How much do I believe what I saw I'm still not sure. However he was quite clear that it doesn't work on everyone anyway - some are more susceptible than others. So you might ask what is the point? Especially as he talks about doing a similar exercise to standing stake for a period of 3 years building up to 3 hours per day in order to develop the abilities. Not many people have the desire or lifestyle to attempt such things - I certainly don't.

However on a much lower level I do believe that I can generate energy which I chose to call ki and transmit this into other people's bodies. An exercise which I am working is on is for someone to grasp my wrist and for me to establish a "connection" between my centre and theirs. I can tell (and this is usually confirmed by the other person) when the energy has reached their elbow, their upper arm, their shoulder, and finally down through the torso to their centre. This process takes varying amounts of time, usually 30 seconds to a couple of minutes.

The connection makes my techniques work better.

What I am working on is shortening this process.

The interesting thing is that my techniques work better if I attempt this sort of connection at any speed (especially if done at normal speed), even if I never establish it.

I also find that there are (a few) teachers who can establish a similar connection with me without touching me. If I am around them, and certainly if I shape up to attack them, then I have this feeling they are already in contact. This connection is a number of things on many levels, rather than the "move at a distance".

Anyway, I have rambled long enough - it is not surprisingly something I find interesting.

Robert
p.s. I have met lots of aikido practitioners who demonstrate various levels of what I would call ki - so it isn't just something that comes from chi kung.

[giriasis]

Is indeed an amazing thing. I believe that the Mystic's view and the Physicist's view of the universe are one and the same. They just follow different paths. The Mystic goes by intution where they Physicist goes by science. But both of these people still deal with things in the real world.

Mysticism is a good thing for people who are on a dedicated path, but taking that mysticism and then saying you can float objects or make fire balls with ki is taking it one step to far. And then just some how trying to discover that ability over the interent with out practicing any ki based art is pretty absurd.

Skepticism forces people to look at things as they really are and keeps us from getting to caught up in fantasy. A healthly dose of it is good for people, too.

But a Mystic without some Skepticism or a Skeptic without some Mysticism would definently be losing out as I believe that a balance of each is what is needed.

So to Anubis and those like him, you can have your dreams and want to believe in ki, just in your search realize ki may not be exactly what you think it to be. (I believe in ki, I just don't believe it does what you think it does) And if you want these magnificant results you dream of, they won't come over night. They come after dedicated practice of many years. And maybe by that time the magnificance of what you find is the beauty of life itself not making fireballs or levitating objects that you find in the media.

Take Care,
Anne Marie Giri

[Anubis Gohan]

I i have found something that will help my side of the argeument i found in the book i got my quote frome in the kung-foo section a master of the art used chi to deflect enemyes without even moveing and these people where flying back
-Brad Cook

[Anubis Gohan]

Although i am stil young i(and this will probaly seem strange)have Tk and their is a tk technique called an energy ball or geinki damma and people have done it i have experinced it myself i have bheen training in tk since i think i was four and it is all about the collection of energy and the abbilty to realice it and it just take a higher ammount of ki than any of you have ever dreamed of thats all
-Brad Cook
i have another quote
"Nothing is to be feard olny to be understood"

[Nick]

Originally posted by Anubis Gohan
Although i am stil young i(and this will probaly seem strange)have Tk and their is a tk technique called an energy ball or geinki damma and people have done it i have experinced it myself i have bheen training in tk since i think i was four and it is all about the collection of energy and the abbilty to realice it and it just take a higher ammount of ki than any of you have ever dreamed of thats all
-Brad Cook
i have another quote
"Nothing is to be feard olny to be understood"

No one else came up to bat on this one, so I guess I will...

First, how young is the "young" that are referring to? Compared to my parents, I'm young. Compared to my grandparents, my parents are young. So some clarification would be nice.

By "tk" you either mean two thirds of tae kwon do, or you are abbreviating telekenesis. Is this "Geinki Damma" Japanese (if so, any kind of translation evades me) or the Anubisian language known only to you?

As far as the book in the "kung- foo" section... I've seen things like those. Saying that by reading their book you can "become invincible" and "change your life"... products of the American "quick-fix" routine. Anything of that nature, if it exists, would be not found in and could not be realized from a book. Also, you seem to know how to "increase ki drmaticly" with your "tk"-- so then why did you ask?
To get attention?

I'm off to go watch a real life documentary about dodging bullets and bending spoons... it's called "The Matrix"... should be interesting...

Nick

[Jim23]

Originally posted by Anubis Gohan
i have bheen training in tk since i think i was four and it is all about the collection of energy and the abbilty to realice it

Rooiigghhtt!

You were training since you were four? I think I started at six months.

My son just dug out his old Streetfighter game to play with a friend (really) and guess what I saw? Exactly what Anubis was talking about.

Nick, I think he's around your age.

Jim23

[tedehara]

Originally posted by Jim23


...My son just dug out his old Streetfighter game to play with a friend (really) and guess what I saw? Exactly what Anubis was talking about....

Jim23

Several years ago, when Jackie Chan wasn't a commercial property, I saw one of his films at the Chicago Art Institute. The guest speaker was a Chinese-American Kung Fu practitioner, who had appeared in the film.

He was also a live-model for one of the Streetfighter characters. They videotaped his moves to incorporate them with his character into the game. At one point, he was told that the character needed a magical weapon. He told them, "Well, I could do this (taking a posture of holding an imaginary ball in front of his stomach) and you could create a fireball to throw at my enemies.

I know this isn't as occult or exotic as most would like to believe, but this is how things are really done. Talking about Ki is just one way of thinking. There are also other ways.

[Anubis Gohan]

Geinki- Damma= Spiri bomb yes it is named after the dbz technique but i didnt name it i ma not talking about street fighter i have olny played that game about twice in my life i ment TK. as in the adveration of Teleknesis i have bhen training since i was younger and i was born with a high leavel of Esp
-Brad Cook
7 Dan
"Just because people no longer apply mystical powers to things dosent mean they dont exist"

[Anubis Gohan]

young meaning young in this country standers and its Japanese

[NYFE Man]

Originally posted by Anubis Gohan

-Brad Cook
7 Dan


OK, now I am starting to get skeptical...

[Jim23]

Told ya,

He's a kid who's legging our pull (or a 7th dan who's legging our pull -- and I didn't see his name in Kami's list).

Pull ... pull, ... p-u-s-h. :eek:

Jim23

[Nick]

Originally posted by Anubis Gohan
young meaning young in this country standers and its Japanese

Young in what country's standard? Your age is Japanese? Huh?

The whole "7 dan" thing is enough to take me from the "kinda skeptic" to the "totally non-believing" list. He lost whatever credibility he had by the fact that he can't even spell telekenesis...

Brad, say hi to your Sayan friends for me, k?

Nick

[Nick]

whoops, it's actually spelled telekinesis... glad I'm not calling myself a 7th dan!

Nick

[giriasis]

A 13 year old 7th dan?????????

Yeah right :D ROTFLMAO

Anne Marie Giri

[CZR]

Nice save Nick... I was about to hand you a 7th dan certificate and a dictionary for our young friend.

Brad,

In all seriousness, you are young and will learn sooner or later that we are defined by actions and not words. Set aside whatever you think is possible with ki; those are just ideas and shared words within your mind. Start from the very beginning, a new beginning if you wish, where you will define and judge yourself by your actions. Take the advice given to you on this site and take action to learn from what people are telling you; experience ki slowly and honestly. Then, when you have performed, taken action, as a student, judge for yourself the possibilities of ki. Ending this very much needless debate for yourself.

I am reminded of a very important story; one of the few that sticks out in my mind as one we can all keep and learn from; one of the few stories that has really shaped my experience with ki and martial arts: A Japanese Zen master received a universtity professor who cam to inquire about Zen. After some time talking, it became obvious to the master that the professor was less interested in learning about Zen and more so in impressing the master with his own knowledge. The master listened to the professor and eventually suggested they have some tea. The master starts to pour the visitor's cup. The master pours until the cup is full and then continues to pour as the tea spills over onto the table and then the floor. The professor seeing this finally cries out "The cup is full! No more will go in." The master replies, "Like this cup, you are full of your own ideas. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

Brad, this story applies to many of us; all of us at one point in time. You are young and, like many of your peers, prone to very noble misguidances. Let me tell this not only to you, but also to all whom you represent: Your cup is small and very easily filled. Remember that; focus your energy on keeping it empty enough to drink tea with the masters.

Best wishes in your future training.

[Anubis Gohan]

I am not in japan i am young in the usa standerds i am a 7dan just not in aikido.
and stop makeing incoherent comments realateing me to the popular action cartoon Dragon Ball Z
i just type to fast i am not a bad speller and the idea you have about the "FIreball" thing is wrong it is just a concentration of your energy in one place
-Brad Cook

[Moomin]

Could you train your ki to help you proof read?

Thanks

[PeterR]

Dragging this back to Aikido from fantasy land.

At the now famous Aikido-L seminar in Japan one of the participants was Ki society. For those that don't know me I come from the "we don't need no stinking Ki" camp. The lady was teaching us unbendable arm and unliftable body and of course that was what we were there for - to be exposed to things we don't normally see or do.

The unbendable arm really did not impress but during unliftable body my sempai broke out into a huge grin and pointed out the similarity to a basic exercise that is done each and every time at Honbu. Until that time I had never made the connection to Ki for anything we do. That moment left a lasting impression on me. I still "don't need no stinking Ki" but a rose by any other name.

O'Usagi
8th Dan

[Nick]

Originally posted by Anubis Gohan
I am not in japan i am young in the usa standerds i am a 7dan just not in aikido.
and stop makeing incoherent comments realateing me to the popular action cartoon Dragon Ball Z
i just type to fast i am not a bad speller and the idea you have about the "FIreball" thing is wrong it is just a concentration of your energy in one place
-Brad Cook

Ok-- as far as age, this makes about as much sense as the rest of your argument. I am 14 years old. I am considered young by "US standards". However, my 18 year old brother is also considered young...

Well, the reason we keep relating you to Dragon Ball Z:

1. You admit that your mystical magical ki technique matches one used in Dragonball Z, which is (surprise surprise) a fireball.

2. Your user name has "Gohan" in it, a main character in DBZ.

3. You match the kind of thinking that many people I know have, that if they go off and train with some mountain mystic that they can how to become an amazing invincible warrior.

4. You call yourself a 7-dan, no explanation needed.

Nick

[CZR]

I don't know if anyone has thought of this, but the subject matter refers to training of ki, implicitly accepting its existence and relation to people's actions. Perhaps we would be best to save the debate about what ki is and whether or not it is for some other time. And I'll even say that we could throw in there aspects of what you can do with it once you have trained it.

And thus moving on to my point addressing the issue at hand... I once heard the expression of ki described as the union of the mind, body, and spirit. Though not profound in and of itself, one can infer from the statement that we train ki in any action to which we devote all of our being. I generalize this in an effort to include non-martial artists who I have noticed have a very intricate understanding of what I would refer to as ki.

A problem in training ki as I have noticed is not an understanding of this condition, but an awareness of it. Thus methods not unlike meditation, which expand awareness, are utilized at length in the training. I would argue that the mistake of the novice would be to train ki on a microcosmic level when in fact it is a larger idea. Keep an open mind; an empty cup, if you read my last reply.

Food for thought. Enjoy!

[Sid]

Hi Guys. I have followed this thread with great interest!!! :)

Ok, Anubis - One ahs to separate fantasy from reality - just because some script writer imagines a fire ball (that is based on A interpretation of ki) that can be used by a martial artist, it doesn't mean it is possible.

Next - Have you ever been in a martial arts dojo/cwoon? If you have, you'll notice that the sensei/sifu does NOT fly around shooting mystical fire balls at his students. In martial arts in general and aikido in particular - its not the high flying stunts that are truly amazing - it's the subtle touch of a master!

Ok - 7th dan!! In what? What authority(martial arts or japanese flower arranging) awarded that lofty rank to you? (other than yourself).

The topic about how does one train one's ki -

1) Accept that your not gonna be levitating and blasting opponents with ki anytime soon.
2) Start a ki discipline such as Chi Kung(Qi Gong), tai chi, reiki or aikido!!!

"Incoherent" relations to DBZ? Cmon - I don't think anyone here has every claimed to be able to shoot fire balls - even in jest!!

Lastly, I am not some "old guy" talking rubbish - Im 16!

Sid

[Brian]

I have an idea. Let's postpone this argument for, say, around 5 to 10 years.

[PeterR]

Western vs Easter Philosophy


In the East a 16 year old listens to a 60 year old talk about life.

In the West a 16 year old tells a 60 year old what life is all about.


O'Usagi
8th Dan

[Nick]

Well put, Peter...

The analogy has been made for unbendable arm for us to think of our arm like a hose shooting out water. I've been thinking recently, and I've wondered if perhaps Ki could be thought of like water. It is in us, makes up all living things, without it we would die. However, it can also be used for destructive purposes. Just look at the flooding in the midwest, or think of how much it hurt when someone shot you up close with a really powerful water gun (I guess that would apply to the younger crowd).

Just a few thoughts I'd like to share (and perhaps to bring this thread somewhat back on-topic?)

Nick

[Jim23]

I am not surprised (but I am amazed) that this thread has gone on for so long. This rates , in my opinion, as the most stupid thread that i've ever seen. And we keep responding! (damn it, I just responded).

I wuold like to kno, what ki iss. Cann i shott the biig fire boll intwo the sky? It loooks lyke fyreworkz over my hed. My freind Dan is the seventh sun in is fambily.

Really.

Time to exit, stage left.

Jim23

[Horus]

Originally posted by Nick
So then why do you continue to come if you're right and we're all wrong?

Also, George Lucas has said in many interviews that "The Force" was based off of the Eastern philosophy of ki/chi/prana, and thought this isn't verified, I believe he practiced aikido for a little bit.

I'm not ruling it out, because I believe that nothing is impossible... I just think it's extremely unlikely...

Nick



it is possible for him to be right and you people to be wrong i'm with his idea.:p

[Horus]

Originally posted by Nick


No one else came up to bat on this one, so I guess I will...

First, how young is the "young" that are referring to? Compared to my parents, I'm young. Compared to my grandparents, my parents are young. So some clarification would be nice.

By "tk" you either mean two thirds of tae kwon do, or you are abbreviating telekenesis. Is this "Geinki Damma" Japanese (if so, any kind of translation evades me) or the Anubisian language known only to you?

As far as the book in the "kung- foo" section... I've seen things like those. Saying that by reading their book you can "become invincible" and "change your life"... products of the American "quick-fix" routine. Anything of that nature, if it exists, would be not found in and could not be realized from a book. Also, you seem to know how to "increase ki drmaticly" with your "tk"-- so then why did you ask?
To get attention?

I'm off to go watch a real life documentary about dodging bullets and bending spoons... it's called "The Matrix"... should be interesting...

Nick

i'm a ki-aholic myself the more ki the marrier. i believe that everything is possible through the will of one. i hate skeptics:ki:

[Horus]

Originally posted by Sid
Hi Guys. I have followed this thread with great interest!!! :)

Ok, Anubis - One ahs to separate fantasy from reality - just because some script writer imagines a fire ball (that is based on A interpretation of ki) that can be used by a martial artist, it doesn't mean it is possible.

Next - Have you ever been in a martial arts dojo/cwoon? If you have, you'll notice that the sensei/sifu does NOT fly around shooting mystical fire balls at his students. In martial arts in general and aikido in particular - its not the high flying stunts that are truly amazing - it's the subtle touch of a master!

Ok - 7th dan!! In what? What authority(martial arts or japanese flower arranging) awarded that lofty rank to you? (other than yourself).

The topic about how does one train one's ki -

1) Accept that your not gonna be levitating and blasting opponents with ki anytime soon.
2) Start a ki discipline such as Chi Kung(Qi Gong), tai chi, reiki or aikido!!!

"Incoherent" relations to DBZ? Cmon - I don't think anyone here has every claimed to be able to shoot fire balls - even in jest!!

Lastly, I am not some "old guy" talking rubbish - Im 16!

Sid


what he says is true if you believe it. he's just using dbz as an example!!! don't be a skeptic. you limit yourself too much. when you release your limits you will suceed

[Horus]

Originally posted by DiNalt


Yes, however I don't believe in the "unliftable body" trick :)

i believe in every aspect of ki. you're on the right track.:ki:

[Brian]

Originally posted by Jim23

I wuold like to kno, what ki iss. Cann i shott the biig fire boll intwo the sky? It loooks lyke fyreworkz over my hed. My freind Dan is the seventh sun in is fambily.
Jim23

I em uh super-sayan so I cen helpp yu ouut. U have to spendd 150 telekenizes points and focus un the point wheerr the univursul energy collides. I am usin my tk tuu type so it not bee so good. Rmembr, the angr cannot ovrcome yu.

Agh. I've barely participated in this thread at all, and even I feel compelled to antagonize. I add to the length of this only to urge others to stop as well =P

[Anubis_Gohan]

Sometims we dont' hav any wampin, yet we have got sufficent ki wehn we do think of it. Ki is'nt waht childern thinnk of for fiting only. we train our mind and spirti togethr bothe. Bothe are good for traininng complete personn for the bettrement of all humnas. Ki is the wey.

Brad

[NYFE Man]

Originally posted by Anubis_Gohan
Sometims we dont' hav any wampin, yet we have got sufficent ki wehn we do think of it. Ki is'nt waht childern thinnk of for fiting only. we train our mind and spirti togethr bothe. Bothe are good for traininng complete personn for the bettrement of all humnas. Ki is the wey.

Brad

Hold on... we don't have any wampum, but ki is the whey?

Is the key to ki Native American cheesemaking?

Maybe it's not a fireball -- but a cheese ball! :D

[Nick]

Of course anything is possible... I'm just saying that some kid coming onto a forum, having claimed to be a 7dan without training, can move objects with his mind, and uses "kung foo" books without names to prove his point makes me into a skeptic. Of course any thing is possible... this just seems unlikely.

Nick

[Horus]

Originally posted by Brian


I em uh super-sayan so I cen helpp yu ouut. U have to spendd 150 telekenizes points and focus un the point wheerr the univursul energy collides. I am usin my tk tuu type so it not bee so good. Rmembr, the angr cannot ovrcome yu.

Agh. I've barely participated in this thread at all, and even I feel compelled to antagonize. I add to the length of this only to urge others to stop as well =P
brian: i'm like you as well i train ki and tk. at least i know there is more than a few here that believe in the full power of ki. istead of setting restrictions on endless possibilities.:ki: :D

[Anubis Gohan]

Just because you use your stupid tactics to try to get me to leave I am not going to I know this is real just because you do not know a seer as do I and that I am using dbz as an example dosent mean that I am luticrus gohan is also a type of Jap. rice i chose that because I like rice and you probaly dont know who Anubis is you with all your tom foolary.
-Brad Cook

[[Censored]]

Originally posted by Anubis Gohan
Just because you use your stupid tactics to try to get me to leave I am not going to I know this is real just because you do not know a seer as do I and that I am using dbz as an example dosent mean that I am luticrus gohan is also a type of Jap. rice i chose that because I like rice and you probaly dont know who Anubis is you with all your tom foolary.
-Brad Cook

Brad, why don't you slowly and carefully type out YOUR understanding of the subject? It should be clear to you by now that, even if anyone here does know what you are talking about, they aren't going to respond in the manner you desire.

[NYFE Man]

Originally posted by Anubis Gohan
Just because you use your stupid tactics to try to get me to leave I am not going to I know this is real just because you do not know a seer as do I and that I am using dbz as an example dosent mean that I am luticrus gohan is also a type of Jap. rice i chose that because I like rice and you probaly dont know who Anubis is you with all your tom foolary.
-Brad Cook

Let's see... Would that be Anubis, the Egyptian god (which your AIM handle seems to indicate (Anubisjacklegod)) or the character from the Ronin Warriors series?

I'm guessing both hold true, and I find it an interesting side note that another Egyptian god, Horus, recently showed up with equally bad spelling, the same general age and agrees with everything you put forth. Split personality?

I for one don't want you to go away -- but I DO feel that you have showed no desire to learn that which you don't already believe to be true. As far as being seen as "luticrus", people on this and other forums can only "know" you by what you write. What I see from your posts is someone who wants attention and who needs to spend more time in school on grammar, spelling and sentence formation (or doesn't respect the people on the forum enough to make even a HALF-hearted attempt at proper English).

Believe what you want to about ki, since you have no desire to listen to the opinions put forth here. Learn to release it in bursts, then you too can write books, make videos and make personal appearances. Become wildly rich & famous, then we'll all be jealous and wonder why we didn't believe you way back when. Until then, please forgive our skepticism and remember: never trust anyone over 30!

Personally, I think that it's all flame-bait and I'm biting. But what the heck -- every once in a while it can be fun! :)

[Nick]

so, you're the Egyptian god of Japanese rice? Good to know... Jun, could we get IP tracking going for Horus and Anubis... Al had a good point...

Brad, why we want you to leave-- some of us have been completely skeptical, and the only way you've tried another argument is to tell us we're all wrong and stupid, and not as high and mighty as you are. We probably aren't, but I'm happy to sit back with my unrealized, unmystical self, and try to live life for what it's worth. Can I shoot fireballs and read minds? Heck no. However, just looking out at nature and it's beauty, and even the ki that comes forth from it, I find that it contains all the mysticism I need.

Nick

[CZR]

yes, fun this is... A days worth of entertainment all in one place.

Since obviously whatever I say to the issue at hand would be ignored in favor of the discussion of Anuby's validity, I propose this:

Since you seem to be so certain of your ideas Anubis, and want to claim that you have some divine knowledge of ki and its potential, why do you not reveal a) your experience, b) your own methods of training that take you to this lofty level, and (wait for it) c) do this in a manner that does not leave the rest of us deciphering the encryptions of your equally divine writings?

Basically Anubis, I am taking you up on your offer earlier. Tell us, professionally, about your own training methods and your own style. Once you have "spilled the beans" as it is said, then maybe the rest of us may be more inclined to agree and admire you...

[Nick]

I tried Chris... but now that you've brought it up, I realize that I too would like to hear from our Egyptian-Japanese demigod...

Nick

[giriasis]

1. You say you know how to spell, but you don't take the time to edit your writing. This lack of care for what you write makes those who read what you write care less about it.

2. You don't support what you believe in with ANY kind of argument. Statement of your opinion with out support leads to less credibility.

3. You use you age as an excuse. I'm sorry but I have met many folks your age that can support their arguments and spell.

4. You ignore anything that is contrary to your opinion, and you seek only the answers you want to hear.

5. The failure to acknowledge the points of others leads them to believe that you don't respect their opinions. So if you can't show respect for thier opinions, they have no reason to show respect for yours.

6. While anything is possible, you seem to ignore the probabilities of acheiving the impossible.

7. You claim to be 7th dan.

8. And now you are creating other names to support your position which are essentially "ditto heads."

Yes, I am being a patronizing 31 year old adult. Tough love, baby. If you want us to take you seriously then ACT SERIOUSLY. Respect the forum members by acknowledging their points. Respect our aikido experience. Respect our views on ki. Respect our real experience with ki.

You know I found it interesting that your friend Horus posted something from Tohei Koichi and William Reed. You should read William Reed's material more closely. Tohei Koichi did NOT believe in these supernatural phenomena you are claiming.

But then again, I'm an adult more than twice your age, I can't possibly know what I'm talking about.

To summarize: If you act seriously, we will take you seriously.

Back to my law school finals,

Anne Marie Giri
5th Kyu, Aikikai Aikido

[Nick]

Anne---

Amen!!!! You put into words what I was having trouble with. I guess adults do have a purpose after all ;)

Nick

[Anubis Gohan]

Horus is a freind of mine i am not the god of rice i like rice i will not tell you ow to do this for you are not ready you have to take kanjji style
-Brad Cook

[Sid]

What the heck was that about?!?!

You have to take KANJI style? A kanji is a japanese character, like the one in my post!!!

It means "chinese character"!

Anubis - I fail to understand!!

Sid

[Nick]

Hmm, we must study kanji-- does anyone know of any schools that teach shodo? Maybe once I understand my kanjji I can learn how to stand on my head while my master lectures me about the Forc.... I mean, ki...

This has gone on too long. I call for a lock on this thread, as even the comedic aspect is losing its luster.

Nick

[PeterR]

That raises a good question Nick. I think we can block out certain users but can we set our profiles to not show certain threads?

If we kill the thread they just go somewhere else. You should see the guy on Aikido Journal at the moment.

Worse thing is that the original question was quite good.

[Nick]

I have no desire to block the thread, but rather just to end it, as it's getting repetitive and boring, though it started out very interesting!

What's the guy on aikido journal saying?

Nick

[PeterR]

Just another child - posting on every single thread from why out in left field.

Originally posted by Nick
I have no desire to block the thread, but rather just to end it, as it's getting repetitive and boring, though it started out very interesting!

What's the guy on aikido journal saying?

Nick