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Kurt
01-31-2001, 05:50 PM
Are there any other Aikido practitioners out there who are Buddhists?

While reading the book, The Zen Way to the Martial Arts, I discovered Buddhism which was perfect harmony with Aikido and my personality. Curious if anyone else has followed a similar path.

Regards,

Chuck Clark
01-31-2001, 09:26 PM
I practice aikido and I'm also a Buddhist.

Matt Banks
02-01-2001, 06:20 AM
Yep it does. I like buddism, its a religion that doesnt, use fear to gain believers.

I just want to say anyone who is knew to aikido that it isnt a religion. Osensei specifically said this.




Matt Banks

cguzik
02-01-2001, 02:56 PM
I started training in aikido about a year after I started regular Zen practice, and I find that for me the two complement each other nicely.

Some teachers, such as Chiba Sensei, encourage zazen. In fact, there is an interesting article by Chiba Sensei at aikidoonline regarding this topic.

However, I would not say that there is any necessary correlation between the two. Aikido is not a religion, but it can lend itself to the cultivation of sincerity, which is the heart of all religious practice.

Chris Guzik

Mabuse
02-06-2001, 10:22 PM
When I gain real understanding of a new piece of the aikido puzzle it _feels_ like kensho.

Awareness and mindfulness are surely the same.

No nage, no uke, just aikido.

ian
02-07-2001, 07:37 AM
zen and aikido could not go better together. It was aikido which introduced me to eastern philosophy. However I don't know whether I would consider myself a buddhist or a taoist (zen has its own set of indoctrination, as all organised religions, such as the koan and formal meditation).

Good thing is that you don't have to be a zen person to practise aikido so you tend not to 'stink of zen' during practise, as it is only on relfection that you realise the similarities.

Ian

The Piranah
03-05-2001, 02:59 AM
My old sensei was.......

MikeE
03-15-2001, 05:36 PM
I am.

aikijames
03-16-2001, 12:00 AM
i actually got in to zen buddhism from the same book about a year after i started aikido. then i went to find a zen group so i could be taught zen.
i don't consider my self a buddhist, yet
i figure i have more to learn first.


James

Karl Kuhn
03-22-2001, 12:40 AM
Buddhisim led me to aikido. What began as a moving meditation to aide my sitting practice became a whole new thing pretty quickly. While they are certainly complimentary in many ways, they are different practices for me.

namaste,
Karl

TheProdigy
03-22-2001, 05:17 AM
A guy in my dojo ranking brown, soon to be shodan is also a buddist. Personally, I don't really have a set religion yet, although thanks to the library at my dojo I am now fully into the Taoist philosophy. I must admit however, I've only touched the surface of comprehending its meanings.

-Jase

Chuck Clark
03-22-2001, 08:33 AM
Karl Kuhn wrote:
Buddhisim led me to aikido. What began as a moving meditation to aide my sitting practice became a whole new thing pretty quickly. While they are certainly complimentary in many ways, they are different practices for me.


Hi Karl,

You may find that after considerable more time in both practices that they (and all else you do) are ONE.

Regards,

jxa127
03-22-2001, 09:20 AM
For what it's worth, I've studied Eastern thought, and I find much in Zen and Tao that complement not only my Aikido training, but also my Christian faith.

Go figure. Maybe there are some universal truths, and enlightenment by any path is still enlightenment. :)

-Drew

Steve Speicher
03-22-2001, 09:42 AM
Many paths, could it be that they all leads toward the same Source?

Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaeism, budo....

the more I study, the more they all seem to be different labels, different explanations, different garments on the same Truth.

Karl Kuhn
03-22-2001, 12:28 PM
Yes, of course they are much the same. I think it is worth considering where they differ, however. Now, there are no absolutes here but my Aikido training is not the same as my sitting practice, nor do I it should be. I think that it is worth investigating, critically, the manifestations of buddha-dharama in our lives and practice.

I mean, the whole universal oness of buddha mind remains, but if we are to do the work we should look to the tools. History rolls with teachers who sought distincton in method and practice- Shakyamuni, Nagarajuna, Dogen, and yes, Ueshiba........

Cheers,
Karl

ian
04-04-2001, 05:44 AM
Although religions may have some fundamental similarities at their core, they are often expressed differently and usually require different behaviour from their practitioners. I have no doubt that religion has an aspect of social bonding with evolutionary importance i.e. it is easier to live in a society where people have the same ethical beliefs, otherwise you always feel others are doing wrong, and other people feel you are doing wrong. i.e. it is a way of genertaing a universal ethic for your society. (This is supported by the use of exclusion of others outside the religion, or missionary action).

Saying this I would say Zen & Taoism are different (call me biased) because they are acutely personal. They also do not have an intrinsic ethical system. (although compassion could be considered part of zen buddhism, it would be expected to arise naturally from a removal of distinctions, rather than being something to necessarily practise).

Ian

ian
04-04-2001, 05:48 AM
P.S. I have recently realised that zen is not about one-ness; to have that concept assumes a distinction.

Ian

"to achieve the Way is not difficult; just reject discrimination. If you cast aside the mind that disciminates, then at once you gain awakening. To abandon the discriminating mind means to break free from the self."

Dogen

bryce_montgomery
12-05-2004, 05:51 PM
Go figure. Maybe there are some universal truths, and enlightenment by any path is still enlightenment.

and...

Many paths, could it be that they all leads toward the same Source?

Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaeism, budo....

the more I study, the more they all seem to be different labels, different explanations, different garments on the same Truth.

Ultimately I believe that there is no right or wrong religion that one could follow, but that all religions serve the point to make their followers happy. This being said it makes perfect sense that the spirituality that one finds in aikido goes hand in hand with the religion one finds in life...

While, this might sound like I'm saying aikido is a religion, I am not...simply stating that there is a level of spirituality located in it that opens our minds.

Many religions do teach many different things but deep down most ( those that serve to help mankind) follow the ideal of peace and harmony...Christians are vessels of God and therefore should have his light shine through them...Muslims are commanded by God to do good things to fellow man...Buddhists strive to extinguish dukkha...Hindus open their arms to all of these trains of thoughts and follow them in peace...All of these religions are different yet they all teach peace.

Zen Buddhism and Aikido can go hand in hand and it wouldn't make any sense for it not to...make peace through not suffering...make peace through universal love, both of these ideologies bind the existence of man and must be seen together and seperate.

One can practice aikido and never gain a strong following of any religion, the same as anyone can follow any religion without even hearing the term aikido but in the end they strive to accomplish the same thing...

But that's just my opinion. :)

Karen Wolek
12-05-2004, 07:28 PM
I've been studying Buddhism for pretty close to two years now. If it weren't for Aikido, I probably wouldn't be. It all began when my sensei used to have us sit for a minute or two at the end of class, before bowing out. I was curious about meditation, I liked the stillness at the end of class....especially being a newbie when I'd get so frustrated all the time. So I researched meditation online and kept coming up with Buddhism sites. The more I read, the more I liked. So I started meditating nightly and reading all I could get my hands on about Buddhism.

I haven't meditated in a couple months now, though. Funny, life got stressful and I stopped. This is probably when I need it the most. When sensei has us sit for a few minutes at the end of class sometimes, I am finding it difficult.

So while I don't belong to a specific form of Buddhism, I do consider myself Buddhist, I guess. I'm still learning.

aikischmid
12-05-2004, 09:59 PM
Aikido led me to Buddhism. What O-Sensei called misogi and shugyo - purification and ceaselessly hard training - I tend to think of them as carving out and peeling away the layers that subdue my innate buddha within. (In conjunction with meditation of course... but then again, anything can be meditative so long as one stays mindful of his actions - and I've even heard Aikido described as "moving zen".) I've always said that beginning to train Aikido was the best decision I ever made, but I've also said in more recent years that "Awakening the Buddha Within" by Lama Surya Das was the most life-changing book for me. I definitely don't think that the 2 rely upon each other, but they work well together. Nonconfrontation, blending and redirecting hostile energy... how do you think Buddhism grew to be such a world religion? I currently attend the Zen Buddhist Temple in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Osu!

Qatana
12-05-2004, 10:02 PM
I'm a Buddhist but my practice was derived more from Theravada than Zen, and I do not feel that the buddhism I practice is a religion, and sometimes i feel that my aikido practice IS.

aikischmid
12-05-2004, 10:24 PM
Ahh... the blurring of all lines. Life itself becomes the highest form of worship!

SeiserL
12-06-2004, 07:43 AM
Actually, Zen got me into marial artsover 35 years ago.

IMHO, Buddhism is aligned with Aikido. It is also aligned with cognitive-behaviorial psychotherapy which is the one proven most effective. 2500 years of peace of mind cannot be all wrong.

aikidoc
12-06-2004, 08:24 AM
More Tibetan for me. I study with a group 2 times a month. Aikido and the Buddhism interest appeared about the same time with the Buddhism evolving later.

mgreen
12-08-2004, 07:16 AM
Ahh... the blurring of all lines. Life itself becomes the highest form of worship!

Life is all there is.... Buddhism is just the the pursut of truth....The truth is, Buddhism is just a lable....

Bill Danosky
12-08-2004, 07:00 PM
It's interesting, attempting to define a "religion". Buddhism is the one that answers the most questions for me, but it's highly conceptual compared to the other ones- With no God to be worshipped, I think many of it's concepts are not easily grasped by non-meditators.

I'm wondering how modern science explains some of the spooky concepts of physics and philosophy our fore fathers (okay, I'm talking about mainly O-Sensei here) believed in? Many of the sciences seem on the virge of proving "something" is at work.

Deepak Chopra, MD is described as being "Ayurvedic" in his beliefs, which is in India, kinda like Shinto is in Japan. An ancient religion, grasping the same concepts. But without the scientific terms to define them, resorting to creating icons, like the-spirit-of-this-and-that.

Anyway, He claims outright that since Quantum physicists now believe that subatomic particles are merely waves of information and energy, we could find out someday soon that all matter is non-material. Maybe all that's left after that would define religion.

Whatever we find out, someday (in this life or after) the truth really is, it'll probably seem most familiar to the people who meditate.

Justin Gaar
02-28-2005, 08:45 AM
I follow the tibetan buddhism. Aikido for me is an extention of what i practice in buddhism. What i find interesting in aikido, is the aspect of using ki in practice. Albeit some styles don't center on Ki as much as others, but ki is always in use in some way or another.
Sincerely,
Justin Gaar
:ki: = the life within all living beings

malsmith
02-28-2005, 09:46 AM
im reading a book right now, the quantum and the lotus, (im not buddhist, or any other religion) but its about buddhism and quatum physics and its really really interesting... a lot that they say about buddhism does remind me of things i learn through aikido

i also dont really think of buddhism as a religion.... i think its just a practice or lifestyle.

Kevin Leavitt
03-08-2005, 02:53 PM
Quantum and the Lotus is an excellent book. I read it several years ago highly recommend it.

carolyn
03-27-2005, 03:24 PM
Hi Im new to these forums so dont know if im just pointing out the obvious or if this will be of some help. I noticed the thread on buddhism and the bit about physics and decided I would have to become a member so I could contribute a bit as trying to link physics to religion is what Im studying.

The links between physics and eastern philosophy are quite astonishing, quantum mechanics has predicted the existence of a "sea of energy" or sea of light which is undetectable but exists everywhere and connects everything and everyone together. This is known as the electro-magnetic zero-pont field. Recent studies into the zero-point field have shown that matter is not solid, at its most fundamental level it is of the same substance as the zero-point field, concentrated energy. I only came across this through researching on the internet for a uni assignment, the zero-point field was discovered in the 50's but its only in the last ten years that its implications have been realised so it's not yet a widely studied theory, if anyone's interested there's a great article at

http://www.science-spirit.org/article_detail.php?article_id=126

The Field by Lynne McTaggart is a great introduction to connective physics
also the book The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra is quite good but a bit heavy on the physics if you haven't studied physics before!!

basically physics is now discovering what buddhism and taoism have been saying for over 2000 years. I think it also connects to panentheistic christianity, but thats just a personal opnion.

carolyn

kironin
03-27-2005, 05:45 PM
The Field by Lynne McTaggart is a great introduction to connective physics
also the book The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra is quite good but a bit heavy on the physics if you haven't studied physics before!!

basically physics is now discovering what buddhism and taoism have been saying for over 2000 years. I think it also connects to panentheistic christianity, but thats just a personal opnion.
carolyn


The links between physics and eastern philosophy are quite superficial. The Tao of Physics was torched by physicists a long time ago for making connections that just simply don't exist between the standard theory of physics and a particular religious philosophy. Unfortunately, The Field is just even more of the same nonsense. If you want to believe that, I am sure she will be happy to make some money off you teaching you all things paranormal in her intensives.

And yes, I have played with the equations. Sometimes we scientists are our own worst enemies in choosing cute or catchy names for things that need very careful definitions.

Charles Hill
03-27-2005, 08:23 PM
Hi Carolyn,

Welcome to the forum. Don`t mind Craig, he`s a bit grumpy sometimes. What is panetheistic Christianity? I have never heard of it. I think that you would really like Wendy Palmer`s book, "The Intuitive Body." It is not at all scientific (a plus in my eyes) but deals a lot with "the field," especially in terms of Aikido and Buddhism.

Charles

kironin
03-28-2005, 09:59 AM
it's only the crackpots that are out there hawking their latest greatest "scientific" basis for their religion and selling books that propagate nonsense memes, that make me grumpy.

Given how many gullible people love to believe this nonsense and buy the books full of it, my attachment leads to much suffering

otherwise, a little meditation and I am a happy compassionate kind of guy. :D

carolyn
03-28-2005, 06:46 PM
Isn't it true though that you can not disprove the existence of the zeropoint field? And quantum mechanics does suggest that we are all connected and that matter is non material.

I am aware that the tao of physics has been regarded as junk by most physicists but it has a place in my heart as it was my introduction to buddhism. Even if what its saying isnt completely correct reading it made me realise that there is still a lot to be discovered in physics and quantum mechanics is a one step closer towards destroying the centuries old view that physics completely contradicts religion. It certainly helped me see things from a different perspective and a knowledge of quantum mechanics has helped me understand eastern philosophy.

It appears to me that in our society today (in Scotland anyway) more and more people are completely non religous and think that spirituality is a fairy tale, mainly because empirical knowledge is regarded as the ultimate knowledge and science can 'apparently' answer all our "big questions". Now physics is reaching a stage where religion could exist in its model of reality and to me this is an exciting prospect.

I'm only just learning about all of this and dont yet know enough about it all but all id say is that the field was very enjoyable to read. Even if it is fantasy the work done by haisch and ruedo seems to be pretty exciting. I'll let u know when i finish my degree in physics :-)

carolyn

Kevin Leavitt
03-29-2005, 12:29 PM
Not sure if physics can ever explain religion. Your post equates religion and spirituality as synonmous. I don't think they necessarily are. Certainly there is a link. Many people fulfill there spirituality needs through religion, but I feel that there are many other ways as well to be spiritual yet not religious. (a-religous).

One thing I have found about physics is that quantum physics has seemed to confirm that there are many things that we do not yet know about. Not sure if physics will ultimately answer all questions about exsistence or origin of life, but it certainly leaves room for thought and possibility.

For me, and many others, what is most spiritual is discovering and playing with the idea and concept that all things are interconnected in life through a common thread or energy. Trying to tap into this wave and achieve an understanding of it or at least a glimpse of it is what is most important and is what represents a spritiual quest. Maybe if we can understand and embrace this we have a hope for harmony and peace.

While physics may not ultimately prove or define the origin of the universe, it certainly has the same goal in many respects of many who are seeking to understand the way the world works-scientifically or spiritually.

Hope this makes sense.

Krista DeCoste
04-23-2005, 11:13 AM
Hi. I'm also fascinated with the connection between physics/cosmology and spirit however my scientific background is confined to one interdisciplinary class on Science and Christianity and a few National Geographic articles. It's good to hear of others exploring this connection.

On the point of Buddhism, I've been drawn to it for a while and since I started Aikido the pull is stronger. I also practice shamanic journeying and find this pursuit of self awareness and healing in connection to the universe has led me to Aikido.

I have one question. Can anyone help me understand the difference between Tibetan Buddhism and Zen? I

SeiserL
04-23-2005, 06:53 PM
Can anyone help me understand the difference between Tibetan Buddhism and Zen? I
Beside Tibetan Buddhism being from Tibet with a strong tradition of literature and study and Zen being from Japan and often focuses almost entirely on the experiential?

Jake Karlins
04-24-2005, 03:26 PM
I think it's probably impossible to cover differences between the different kinds of Tibetan Buddhism(4 main schools, I think, Nyingma, Gelug, Kagyu, one other), and the different kinds of Zen buddhism (Rinzai, Soto, others too?). For Tibetan buddhism, I think "The Tibetan Book of Living And Dying" is good, by Sogyal Rinpoche. The Dalai Lama has written numerous books, so has Pema Chodron. Both are Buddhists from Tibetan lineages. As far as Zen, I've heard Zen Mind Beginner's Mind, by Suzuki is good, but I haven't read it. And, f course, if you can get to a good library, I'm sure there are books that cover history and culture of Tibetan and Zen buddhism in a more organized (dry) fashion.

Krista DeCoste
04-24-2005, 04:16 PM
Thanks for the basic distinctions.I knew they wouldn't be simple to explain but the experiential vs. study and literature is a start. I guess I'll have to do some serious reading. Thanks for the suggestions on readings. I have read a book on meditation by Sogyal Rinpoche and a few articles by Pema Chodron but nothing on Zen. I'll be visiting the library soon.:)

Nathan Gusdorf
04-24-2005, 11:26 PM
Matter is basically highly highly compressed energy. This is how anti-matter is created in particle accelerators. an individual particle is accelerated to near the speed of light and is crashed into a stationary block of matter. There is so much energy from this collison that a particle and an anti-particle are made. To me this does not prove anythign. Rather, it proves what we cannot prove. It proves to me that we cannot dismiss the idea of ki as simple mysticism and that many things are possible. I am simply saying it opens the door to a realm of possibilty, it does not prove that I can learn how to levitate my dog.

And I think spirituality and religion are very different. Spirituality is whatever brings you to a higher place, so to speak. religion can be a means to achieve spirituality or it can be a means to manipulate people. I go to a Jewish camp over the summer and even though what we do is not as religiously observant as say Orthodox Judaism, i find it very spiritual. I think meditation and Aikido can be very spiritual. I think that a lot of western religions lose a lot of spirituality and become institutions designed to control people and often start wars.

kironin
04-25-2005, 01:23 AM
Matter is basically highly highly compressed energy. This is how anti-matter is created in particle accelerators. an individual particle is accelerated to near the speed of light and is crashed into a stationary block of matter. There is so much energy from this collison that a particle and an anti-particle are made. To me this does not prove anythign. Rather, it proves what we cannot prove. It proves to me that we cannot dismiss the idea of ki as simple mysticism and that many things are possible. I am simply saying it opens the door to a realm of possibilty, it does not prove that I can learn how to levitate my dog.
.

not only can you not levitate your dog, but this proves you don't understand what you are talking about.

oops, being grumpy again.

when you define what you mean by the "idea of ki", then it might be possible to comment on whether what you are thinking about is mysticism or not.

If String theory ever does become the succesful theory that unifies everything, the large scale of gravity and the small scale of the Electroweak and Strong forces, it's unlikely that anything like the concept of Ki will be needed to flesh out that final equation.

Joe Bowen
04-25-2005, 02:00 AM
Beside Tibetan Buddhism being from Tibet with a strong tradition of literature and study and Zen being from Japan and often focuses almost entirely on the experiential?

To be fair, Lynn, this is a gross oversimplification. All schools of Buddhism incorporate rigorous physical meditative (experiential) practice. True, Tibetan Buddhism proves a more dogmatic orientation and relies on heavily on the literature and ritual set down over the centuries, but practically speaking Zen does this as well. Otherwise, why would Zen folks recite (chant) the Heart Sutra, or "meditate" on Koans etc, etc. And, truth be told Zen Buddhism doesn't come solely from Japan. Zen Buddhism started as Chan Buddhism in China, spread to Sen (sp?) Buddhism in Korea and made its way to Japan where it was pronounced Zen. The Japanese Zen Buddhism is the more well-known version, as it was most likely the Japanese that introduced westerners to the Religion. However, bear in mind that most of the Zen Masters that people quote (like Dogen) are in fact Chinese Monks (not that this is really that important).
I would also disagree with the statement that someone made very early on in this thread that Buddhism has no inherent ethical standard of conduct. If you look at the 4 Noble Truths and the Eight-fold path you will find an inherent ethical standard, particularly when you are talking about the Right-practice and Right-mindedness.
Zen Buddhists don't ignore these either. The practice of Zen is solidly laid on the foundations of the 4 Noble Truths....
A good reference for those that are interested is "The Compass of Zen", which is a compilation of lectures and writings from a Korean Zen Master, Seoung Sa Sunim. It is edited by one of his American Students, Hwa-Gak Sunim. The first portion is pretty interesting as it explains Seoung Sa Sunim's interpretation of the evolutions of the different schools of Buddhism. Really good stuff.

Nathan Gusdorf
04-25-2005, 04:04 PM
Craig-

You're right- I don't know what I am talking about, however I have looked into the issue beyond reading Angels & Demons by Dan Brown. By Ki I simply mean the idea of being able to affect energy in a less direct way than actually moving something with your hands for example. I do not have an extensive knowledge of everything people believe about in eastern religions, however I understand ki to be a kind of energy that we can focus. I would be glad if you woudl tell me where I was incorrect on the physics part. Especially the anti-matter part because I thought that was right. I don't know enough about eastern religions or quantum physics to really be able to do a deep analysis of the two. I do however think that there is some common ground. For example, (Don't jump on me if I make a mistake here) physics does not only deal with matter but also with energy. If something does not have mass and its moving energy then to me the idea does not seem too far fetched that we can somehow affect this energy.

I am very much a science person and I'm not a big fan of many religions. One of the reasons I like eastern religions is that they seem more spiritual than our western ones and involved things other than simple prayer. Meditation is very beneficial for example.

I am not someone whos out to distort physics to promote a personal agenda. I have my own concept of what ki really is and if I am misinterpreting a physics concept then please correct me. I understand your frustration at having people misinterpret or abuse science for personal gain or to justify an unjustifiable belief, however I am not one of these people. I would be interested to hear your point of view on the topic beyond your criticisms of other people's theories.