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Jeremy Gelman
04-22-2004, 08:25 PM
Have any of you trained intensively against high kicks? Whado you do in terms of aikido if someone skilled is kicking at your head or neck? Like those guys in tae kwon do....

I've never been taught how to do aikido against high kicks so do any of you have anything to say on this matter?

I do know that high kicking is supposed to be very impractical in most cases. Bruce Lee said that "A kick to the head is like a punch to the foot". Still, what if...

I've seen Steven Seagal do some aikido stuff against kicks but it isn't clear to me what to do!

Erik
04-22-2004, 09:14 PM
Rant to follow.

The politically correct answer is that they are impractical and we don't need to train against no 'steenkin' kicks. The second politically correct answer is that they are too dangerous and we'd rend our limbs from our bodies. There is also some weird cultural mojo that seems to come into play here with feet being less spiritually pure, seriously, than hands, or whatever.

Maybe that wasn't too politically correct? :D

The reality is that your experience is about normal and that people, for the most part*, aren't teaching it. When challenged on it they almost always fall back to my earlier comments but really they can't substantially back up their comments because even if they are accurate there's no tested substance. It's just a hollow repeating of the mantra.

Just to simulate the problem I know that Hans Goto did some work with another local MA teacher and they put together a program on kicking. They even got themselves written up in Aikido Journal and according to Hans Goto they didn't get any interest from the aikido world.

"Thud" is the sound of one foot kicking in the aikido world.

I don't know how many classes I've attended over the years but lets say 2,000 for this rant and if I said 10 of them had anything, and I mean even 15 minutes, to do with kicking I'd be exaggerating. Has anyone even demonstrated against a kick in the Aiki-Expo? Even once?

I suppose if it doesn't bother anyone else then it shouldn't bother me.

Here endeth the rant.

Jeremy, I can offer you some answers but now I'm much too depressed. :D

* I know some of you practice kicks and some styles actually even have it included in the curriculum but honestly everyone here knows of what I speak.

MitchMZ
04-22-2004, 09:20 PM
If you blend with the attack just like an arm(yokomenuchi, tsuki, etc.) and turn your center accordingly I'm sure you could very easily throw someone from their leg, especially if its up high. Not to mention many locks also work against the foot/ankle area. Really, I don't see how its so different from an arm. More powerful yes...but I think hands are also quicker. Aikido also does a very good job of teaching people to postion themselves so they arent all that susceptible to kicks in the first place.

shihonage
04-22-2004, 09:30 PM
Spar with someone and come to your own conclusions.

Benjie Lu
04-22-2004, 09:59 PM
In our dojo, we practice extensively against mae giri or kicking attacks, high kicks, low kicks and all other kicks in between.

In my experience, high kicks are generally less effective than say a low thigh kick. Again, we emphasize ma-ai and irimi when dealing with kicks. I think it is good practice for aikidoka to learn how to defend against kicks because other martial artists who are very skilled in kicks can cause serious injury from the force of their kicks and their sheer speed when delivered by a skilled MA makes them very difficult to anticipate.

We had a visiting yudansha once and he was kind of shocked when during randori he was attacked by multiple kicks by one of our resident TKD expert. Needless to say, the speed and execution of the kicks left him with little options except to try to parry the kicks which is inherently dangerous because of the power and weight behind the kicks.

IMHO, there is a serious dearth of practice/techniques against kicks in aikido and I feel that this is a serious gap in aikido repertoire. Again, this is is just my opinion.

aikiSteve
04-22-2004, 10:16 PM
How do you take falls as an uke when kicking? i find myself sort of hopping up to flip my foot over. Is there a better way?

Steve

L. Camejo
04-22-2004, 11:25 PM
Most times when we train against kicks in our dojo it's against mae geri (front kick). When I do demos I throw in a few responses to roundhouse, spinning back hook, side kick etc. as long as I have one of my TKD or Karate students.:)

In my experience, Sen timing and strong entering techniques (irimi nage and other atemi waza) tend to handle the majority of kicks pretty easily. I personally view combos (as done in TKD) as a string of single attacks, the key is to enter on the first and eliminate the possibility of the follow ups, otherwise, timing and ma ai control is critical to utilise the gap between combo kicks to create an opportunity for technique.

Generally we do not train against high kicks very often, merely because most folks are not able to execute the high kicks well and with control and more importantly, the higher the kick the higher and harder the ukemi as the body is supported by only one foot and is VERY easy to throw. In a class of relative beginners this may compromise the safety factor. In my experience everyone who has received a medium force Aikido technique from a high kick has had at least a minor whiplash effect on their neck (from the sheer shock with the ground) after ushiro ukemi, and this is from folks who have pretty solid ukemi experience. It is becoming a more regular element of our practice though as people's kicking skills are improved, and entering against a front kick (or chamber) is a part of the basics of every class during exercises like Gassho Uke, Seichusen no Bogyo and even Tai Sabaki practice.

Just my 2 cents.

LC:ai::ki:

David Yap
04-23-2004, 01:40 AM
In our dojo, we practice extensively against mae giri or kicking attacks, high kicks, low kicks and all other kicks in between.

In my experience, high kicks are generally less effective than say a low thigh kick. Again, we emphasize ma-ai and irimi when dealing with kicks. I think it is good practice for aikidoka to learn how to defend against kicks because other martial artists who are very skilled in kicks can cause serious injury from the force of their kicks and their sheer speed when delivered by a skilled MA makes them very difficult to anticipate.

Hi Jeremy,

I agree wholeheartly with Benjie that ma-ai (distancing) is the emphasis when kick attacks are concerned. Generally, skilled karate-ka and TKD exponents will only kick when the target is already within range which is logical since the success rate is higher than moving into range to kick as the target could be moving away or moving in to jam the kick.

Being the sole yudansha in karate in my class, I was always called upon to do attack my sensei with a maegiri. From where I was standing, I always knew that it was a waste of my effort - the distance was not right, I had to charge in to kick - thus telegraphed my intention which I have been trained not to so do. Times when he was within my kicking range, I would kick in an honest but controlled manner allowing him to move and execute his countering technique. I can honestly tell you that I could have easily brought him down with my kicks if I wanted to. I am sure that many of you guys who have been trained in competition fights will agree that the speed of the maegiri and reverse punch is not to be underestimated especially when the attacker is within the striking range.

I think my teacher was aware of this and he reminded the class that the techniques he did were for exercise only

David

philipsmith
04-23-2004, 03:09 AM
We will ocassionally practise against kicks (high & low) but really have found very little difference between these and other forms of attack.

The main trick is not to worry about them being "different"

Dunn
04-23-2004, 07:30 AM
My first dojo taught techniques against kicking about 1 class per month. It was almost always against front-kicks, though the instructors would practice against some more advanced kicks.

Unfortunately, it is one of those areas where your ukes must be a little more athletic. If you are defending against a kick from someone who has never, and would never, throw one, then it kind of feels like defending against a leg sweep instead.

Nick Simpson
04-23-2004, 09:02 AM
Watch your mai and take the other leg out. Or just dodge em and let them tire themselves out.

Nick Simpson
04-23-2004, 09:05 AM
If were talking doing aikido techniques, you can kotegaeshi and shiohonage a foot, as well as doing very obvious iriminages, sokumen iriminages. Mae geri and Mae Washi are on our first kyu and shodan syllabus I think.

SeiserL
04-23-2004, 09:11 AM
Watch the distance.

Get off the line. Slip the kick. Irimi or Sayu-undo.

Get off the line. Irimi tenkan behind. Pull down on shoulders.

Drop and roll into supporting leg.

Drop, grab the heel of supporting leg and apply sideway pressure to knee, sorta like Ikkyo to the leg.

Sample principles apply. Easier to take balance because only supported by one leg.

Train again kicks to get used to seeing the angle and it become pretty easy.

JMCavazos
04-23-2004, 09:27 AM
In terms of how to deal with any kick, is the same as anything else in aikido - control the uke's body. Don't worry so much about the kick, punch, weapon, etc.... as long as YOU can control HIS body. Most of posts here talk about entering to control the uke's body. It seems like excellent advice to me!

mantis
04-23-2004, 11:15 AM
A kick has a limited effective range. This means that it only has power in a small focused area at the end of it's arc.

Kicking something is like hitting a golf ball. It's real easy to hit a golf ball if it's on a tee, but if you put the ball on the back of a mouse and then try to hit it, it becomes increasingly difficult if not impossible. (just an analogy)

So maai is a given, then movement comes next. It's hard to change the arc of a kick once it's launched.
That being said, a good kicker will set you up so you will move into where he wants you.

Kickers have to plant their foot to deliver energy. This leaves them vulnerable to an attack.
Kickers have a limited effective range, so it is possible to jam their techniques, or move off the line of attack.
Most of the time a kickers nose will be over his knee when he kicks. try this out yourself and see.
This lets you know where his balance leg is. You can use this to your advantage. In most cases, the head movement to set up a kick is a good give away that an attack is coming. If his head moves to your right, then the kick will come from the left etc.

I hear all the time from TKD karate etc. players that a heel kick is so powerful, but in my experience, I've never had one be able to land it at all. A strong front thrust kick (not a hopping TKD competition style kick) is one of the hardest to defend against. It has power, and is good to get distance with and because it's straight on, it's harder to be telegraphed as opposed to a round house kick. A spinning back kick is also a good kick. A kicker can throw a hook punch but really is using it to distract you and set up the spinning back kick. (they are extremely fast).

Like any good art, you have to set your opponent up to knock him down. Kicking arts do the same thing, but by exploiting their weaknesses and sticking with aikido principles of maai, movement and blending that you learn will negate the power and effectiveness of their kicks.

Jordan Steele
04-23-2004, 12:06 PM
High kicks are generally easy to see, but pack a tonne of power. Best chance is to avoid them until there is an opportunity to penetrate. On the other hand, if you're able to get inside the power zone of a kick before it knocks you out cold, shoving a person trying to kick high will send them into another zip code and leave you standing there with a smug grin on your face.

GLWeeks
04-23-2004, 12:28 PM
We went over some kick defenses towards the end of class just the other day. My conclusion is this, real pain is Kotegaeshi applied to the foot... Ye-ouch!

David Yap
04-24-2004, 12:06 AM
We went over some kick defenses towards the end of class just the other day. My conclusion is this, real pain is Kotegaeshi applied to the foot... Ye-ouch!

GLWeeks,

Agree with you on this. I like to caution you that this technique should be done with care to avoid serious injury to the Uke.

A long time ago. I had a friendly (at least I thought it was going to be friendly) sparring session with a TKD black belt. During the match, he thrown a side kick which I managed to trap between my left elbow and my right hand. He was hopping on one foot trying to keep his balance. As far I was concerned the match was over and was about to release his foot when I saw his right fist coming in an arc towards my face. I had got both my arms on his leg and there was not enough time to meet the strike with my right arm. By instinct, I turned his foot (still caught between my elbow) downwards. I believe that the direction of the foot turning coupled with the counter direction of his swinging right arm and hips must had torn some ligaments in his knee. He was out of physical action for six months. I felt awefully bad for his injury.

The Uke must really blend with you on this technique to avoid serious injury to the knees.

That's my free advice.

Regards

David

JessePasley
04-24-2004, 04:01 AM
While finding a good muay thai player or some other good kicker to spar with would be the easiest answer, I would suggest finding somebody versed in competitive san shou, perhaps with a taijiquan or xingyi background (as those arts seem very similar to aikido). Chances are a good san shou guy would know how to deal with good high kicks in a way aikidoka could readily understand.

Neil Mick
04-25-2004, 04:36 AM
I trained in Capoeira for about four years, partly to answer this question for myself (and also, partly to dance! :) )

My answer? A kick is just a punch, with a longer reach. Most any Aikido-move can be used against legs, and feet.

Doka
05-03-2004, 06:21 AM
Evade - blend - throw their foot over their head!!!!!!! :D

arderljohn
06-28-2004, 12:25 AM
Like any good art, you have to set your opponent up to knock him down. Kicking arts do the same thing, but by exploiting their weaknesses and sticking with aikido principles of maai, movement and blending that you learn will negate the power and effectiveness of their kicks.[/QUOTE]

sorry i'm late for this thread...but it good to be late rather than doing nothing. ;)

what else can i say?
this tread is really good. I'm second the motion. I really like your opinnion..keep up the good attitude. :)

xuzen
06-28-2004, 12:50 AM
What about the old masters, has any one witness or saw in video, DVD of old masters handling kicks? Care to share?

Boon.

Benjie Lu
07-22-2004, 12:43 AM
How do you take falls as an uke when kicking? i find myself sort of hopping up to flip my foot over. Is there a better way?

Steve

We normally take backfalls and frontal falls from aikido techniques when the leg is trapped by nage during kicking practice.We would normally finish these types of techniques with a pin (i.e. leglock).

For the other times when nage applies a more orthodox technique versus a kicking attack (e.g. kotegaeshi, sankyo nage, etc.) we apply the ukemi that is appropriate.

M G
07-23-2004, 07:45 AM
Hi Jeremy,
my sensei's anwser to similar questions was to treat kicks the same as an shomen uchi, yokomen uchi or tsuki attack for the block and unballanceing part. Then he's on the ground and you can do whatever you want (don't take time to think though).
Hope that helps for you.
Machiel.

Jorge Garcia
08-02-2004, 05:50 AM
Have any of you trained intensively against high kicks? Whado you do in terms of aikido if someone skilled is kicking at your head or neck? Like those guys in tae kwon do....

I've never been taught how to do aikido against high kicks so do any of you have anything to say on this matter?

I do know that high kicking is supposed to be very impractical in most cases. Bruce Lee said that "A kick to the head is like a punch to the foot". Still, what if...

I've seen Steven Seagal do some aikido stuff against kicks but it isn't clear to me what to do!

I think that the kicking defenses are somewhat over blown. We practice against kicks in hamni handachi and in tachi waza using the standard aikido defenses. If a person can't do those, more elaborate defenses won't do much good. I trained for six months (in aikido) with a Tai kuan do instructor of 45 years (8th dan). He was learning Aikido because he said that as he observed other martial artists, he lacked confidence when measuring his art against theirs. He had his own school in the oriental district here in Houston and had successfully sustained many challenges from other martial artists in his school. I mention that to point out that he was no sissy. He was just honest. My instructors have told me that in a real duel, to leave your feet is deadly if you have a competent martial artist in front of you. I suggest that the next time you encounter someone coming at you with a high kick, go under him as fast as you can with an aiki-nage toward the leg he is standing or jumping on. I think that will solve any potential problem quickly.
Best,

Chris Bull
08-03-2004, 11:12 AM
I think the previous posts have answered your question well enough, but personally speaking I'd go for a single leg take-down on the remaining leg, but I suppose that it's debatable as to whether or not that is Aikido.

Regardless, I think you should be more concerned with how to deal with the less telegraphed lower kicks that Muay Thai utilises so well, or knees to the groin/stomach.

Cheers,
Chris

JasonFDeLucia
08-03-2004, 08:33 PM
Have any of you trained intensively against high kicks? Whado you do in terms of aikido if someone skilled is kicking at your head or neck? Like those guys in tae kwon do....

I've never been taught how to do aikido against high kicks so do any of you have anything to say on this matter?

I do know that high kicking is supposed to be very impractical in most cases. Bruce Lee said that "A kick to the head is like a punch to the foot". Still, what if...

I've seen Steven Seagal do some aikido stuff against kicks but it isn't clear to me what to do!
absolutely aikido has kicking and to the head BUTyou should never look for kicks ,only take the perfect one if it happens .you should dwell in an ikyo but kicks are among the least perfect for long term.

Michael Meister
08-05-2004, 04:19 AM
My instructors have told me that in a real duel, to leave your feet is deadly if you have a competent martial artist in front of you. I suggest that the next time you encounter someone coming at you with a high kick, go under him as fast as you can with an aiki-nage toward the leg he is standing or jumping on. I think that will solve any potential problem quickly.
Best,

I don't realy have experience with Aikido versus kicking techniques (we did once son ikkyos and the like, but on the other hand I'm only 4th Kyu), but I do have some friends training tae kwon do. Even they say, that high kicks are only of interest in competition, but not of much use in the real world. If you're kicking high, you have to be very fast and succesful, or your opponent will have the upper hand.

As you mentioned hamni handachi waza in your post, I think this would be a postion were kicks to the head might have quite some chance of succes, though from a technical point of you this would be rather middle height or lower kicks?

Robert Cheshire
08-10-2004, 05:05 PM
I have posted a picture in the images gallery of one possibility of defense from a kick. Another good defense is Do Gaeshi (that's what we call it in Yoseikan - not sure if it goes by a different name in other styles). You go to the outside of the kick/body catch under the leg and lift up and pivot. You can then catch the leg as they fall and do a leg pin or a muscle compression.

CNYMike
08-19-2004, 11:51 AM
.... IMHO, there is a serious dearth of practice/techniques against kicks in aikido and I feel that this is a serious gap in aikido repertoire. Again, this is is just my opinion ....

On the one hand, you have a good point. OTOH, AFAIK, western boxing doesn't have any kicks at all, and no one criticizes boxing for that, or wonders how boxers would deal with a high kicker.

And now that I think about it, in 19 years of doing shotokan karate, shito-ryu karate, Kali, Wing Chun, and now Serak, I've never done defenses against high kicks! (Not even in the Shotokan class, taught by someone who also held a TKD instructorship.)

So Aikido doesn't have kicks.

Big fat hairy deal.

thomas_dixon
09-08-2004, 08:44 AM
Depending on the type of kick you could just avoid them and let em wear their selves out with the amount of energy it take to perform such powerful and high kicks....

kironin
09-08-2004, 09:10 AM
I've never been taught how to do aikido against high kicks so do any of you have anything to say on this matter?



Traditional karate doesn't contain high kicks above the waist for a good reason. Even a smart TKD stylist would never deliver a high kick without first making a connection with a few punches to daze you first.

A high kick to the head is like kirioroshi with the sword (the big powerful downward cut). A finishing off move after you have already done other faster moves to off balance your opponent.

Since some of my students are proficient black belts in karate, we do train a bit to deal with someone dumb enough to throw a high kick first. They love that.

But given that we like to assume that the uke is not so dumb, we spend more time on dealing with various punches or combinations of things.

YMMV

kironin
09-08-2004, 09:30 AM
Just to simulate the problem I know that Hans Goto did some work with another local MA teacher and they put together a program on kicking. They even got themselves written up in Aikido Journal and according to Hans Goto they didn't get any interest from the aikido world.

was it an article ? it's not online nor is he an author listed on the site.

perhaps there is a different reason - those teachers with an interest already had done their own explorations and research if their style/organization didn't include enough training in this area to satisfy them.

A lot of the standard stuff is pretty applicable, so it's not exactly rocket science. Just takes an interest in training and being adaptable and having awareness to not leaving openings for uke to exploit.


p.s.
and to add to my previous post, I am more concerned with quick low kicks. That has been tougher to have much from the aikido to be useful to deal with. However I have been very happy with training methods from Systema for that situation, in terms of being quite in sync with aikido and being quite effective. Being in sync with aikido, students pick it up pretty easily after a few training sessions because it builds on what they know.

Dazzler
09-08-2004, 09:36 AM
So Aikido doesn't have kicks.

Big fat hairy deal.

:D I like this immensely!

Dealing with kicks...off line and irimi. Not gonna suggest a fixed technique because there are no fixed techniques, just tools to develop irimi and atemi.

Regards

D

CNYMike
09-08-2004, 04:46 PM
:D I like this immensely!


Thanks. :o But honestly, you ever see a boxing coach have to defend the fact that Western boxing doesn't have kicks? I could be wrong, but I think it's unlikely. So it doesn't bug me that Aikido doesn't have kicks. It is what it is and does what it does and no one should be shy about it or defend it.


Dealing with kicks...off line and irimi. Not gonna suggest a fixed technique because there are no fixed techniques, just tools to develop irimi and atemi.

Regards

D

Yes, and a round kick is harder to get away from than a straight front kick. If it's a Thai kick, don't try and block it with your arm; it'll get broken. If anything, go for the ura line like a bat out of h-e-double-toothpicks; you'd also want to look into what Jun Fan/JKD people call "cutting the line," although not being a JFJKD person myself, I can't explain it all that well. (Is there a Sifu in the house?) Evasion is the best idea, and Aikido knows how to do that. Get both hands up and/or apply atemi. And then find whatever lock or throw you can.

Just my 2p.

With Respect ....

Mas Mike

BKimpel
09-08-2004, 07:59 PM
These are some of my favorite Aikido techniques against kicks.

yokogeri_kekomi.jpg attachment:
Can be applied against yoko-kekomi (side thrust), ushiro-kekomi (back thrust) or gyaku-mawashi-geri (reverse (or back) roundhouse kick).
The trick is (as said by many others) get off the line with a little step forward and to the side. And as you probably have heard when asking your sensei about kicks it actually IS the same as the hand technique (in this case hiji-jime to a punch).
The nice thing about this technique is that you go with the knee and although the fall is not pleasant at all (thus why we don’t practice every day in the dojo), it is nicer than many that wrench the knee.

mawashigeri.jpg attachment:
Almost kaitennage (the shortened version against a punch where you just wrap the arm and bring uke down – no soto or mawari uchi movement). The same opening (get off the line), but a hip twist is all it takes to bring him down on his face (again not a pleasant fall).
Also a not about these two – the legs a often very much less flexible than the arm VERY little stretch is necessary to make uke slap the mat so pay attention! Inflexible ukes will often be in pain as soon as you achieve the pin (wrap your leg around ukes)…so be nice :)

maegeri.jpg attachment:
This is aiki-otoshi same as any other techniques (punch, shomen-uchi, whatever).
The pin is exceptionally effective against opponents that are shorter than you because you can stick the foot under your armpit then pin – mommy! This pin is against the knee and the pressure is like nikkyo with your center. Also notice the other foot is placed on the inside/topside of uke’s other knee – that’s to make sure uke doesn’t think about raising his/her other foot towards the general groin location.

Lots more (yonkyo to the shin is by far the most painful – as confirmed recently), but these are nice and easy – both do do and on uke’s knees. Not so easy on uke’s face though if they don’t land nicely so do the last part a little slower eh!

Aikidoiain
09-11-2004, 04:12 PM
Hi Jeremy,

Drop down and strike the other leg with a kick to the knee or a groin strike or a recumbant ankle throw (which I think someone already mentioned).

Alternatively, just keep moving till they get tired - then go home and watch a good movie! :cool:

Iain. :)

Aikidoiain
09-11-2004, 04:23 PM
Me again.

I know you asked for Aikido methods, so, before anyone pulls me up about my reply :) I was describing Aiki-Jujitsu techniques.

Aikido comes from that anyway.

Thanks.
Iain. :cool:

omerbey
10-13-2004, 11:30 AM
once I have encountered such a thing and my reflexive response was dropping down a little and walking. then I grabbed the kicking leg... afterwards, options... options...

effective high kicking probably requires lots of training, and speed.

ecollander
10-13-2004, 12:08 PM
I don't realy have experience with Aikido versus kicking techniques (we did once son ikkyos and the like, but on the other hand I'm only 4th Kyu), but I do have some friends training tae kwon do. Even they say, that high kicks are only of interest in competition, but not of much use in the real world. If you're kicking high, you have to be very fast and succesful, or your opponent will have the upper hand.

I have to agree. I studied TKD for over 8 years and I would never use a high kick in a real situation. The high kicks and jumping kicks in TKD were developed by Koreans to fight against horse-mounted samurai invaders/occupiers from Japan, simply to knock them off their horse. Once on the ground, the low kicks to thigh/knee/stomach/groin were applied with devastating results. The high kicks are still part of TKD training for competition and because it's safe to say that if you can kick effectively up high, you can kick even more effectively down low.
Also, kicks require proper distance. Most people will react to a kick by backing away, which is exactly what the TKDer wants, but if you're trained enough, it's just as easy to move inside the kick and then apply whatever aikido techniques are most appropriate. This requires very fast reaction, and perhaps some anticipation. Trying to block a good kick will just lead to injury (on the blocker's part).

Kevin Leavitt
10-13-2004, 12:14 PM
I used to kick high back in the day. Since I have been studying aikido, I have personally come to he conclusion that it is hard to walk/move and kick at the same time!! :)

Seriously, while I do find a use occassionally for a high kick, usually against a less experienced opponent, I have found that I rarely kick above the waist because high kicks are too committed. However, I stop at ruling kicks out because they are still tactically effective.

I think there is much merit at training in a classical karate/tae kwon do style to learn good kicking skills.

Defending against them is no different than strikes, I think many times it is easier, remember, your opponent cannot move when kicking.

I have found sometimes that because some dojos maynot do much kicking, that aikidoka are sometimes taken aback by a kick and caught off guard. Other than that, no big deal!

omerbey
10-13-2004, 12:28 PM
what I meant was walking forward. Towards the crotch area. In case it was not clear.

willy_lee
10-13-2004, 06:02 PM
The high kicks and jumping kicks in TKD were developed by Koreans to fight against horse-mounted samurai invaders/occupiers from Japan, simply to knock them off their horse.
Many people find this extremely unlikely.

As this is an old thread I feel I can safely assume that no-one will care if it goes off-topic.

=wl

Raziel
10-13-2004, 11:39 PM
Yesterday I was trainning with my senior for close combat in our aikido class (lol aikido sparing !?!?), we simply do any puncing and kicking to knock each other off but rarely got a change to do aikido technique on each other since we both know it well and avoid it before another can do. During the trainning, I found that a high kick is extreme dangerous to myself, while I d a high kick, I create a very big opening to my oponent and an irimi from him always knock me off if I do high kick. Beside, a back-swing kick is dangerous too, an irimi tenkan (or we call it 'mist step') a dodge this kick very well.

I found it's very challenge to 'fight' with someone who know aikido as well, espeacially those who do better than you in aikido. It's very good experience in trainning !! :D