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actoman
04-09-2004, 12:24 PM
Hey all,

I was wondering what your tips were for applying my all-time fav move, Iriminage, to taller ukes. I am about 5'6" and most ukes are naturally taller and bigger than I.

Any help would be appreciated.

Andy

JasonB
04-09-2004, 02:29 PM
Begin with an atemi to the groin.

:eek:

j0nharris
04-09-2004, 03:06 PM
At 5' 4", I know how ya feel!

I think it depends a lot on the initial entry, with shomen uchi being the most difficult to deal with.

A nice close entry, then a body turn where you can drop your center (and by extension, theirs) as low as possible.

Let them come back up and then step through.

If they're big & burly, as well as tall, and really coming like gangbusters, then instead of stepping into them at the end, it can be quite effective to step back, and let their momentum carry them that way instead. That may not be technically correct for some people testing, etc., but it certainly works!

Another nice entry for someone tall is move completely behind them and bring your hand up to the shoulder of the striking arm. There is a weak spot in the joint right where the shoulder socket and arm meet, and using the blade of the hand, you can very easily drop your elbow, hips, and center to bring them backw and down with very little effort.

Give it a whirl, & see how it works.

-jon

Robert Jackson
04-10-2004, 12:16 AM
Well I'm 6'3" So I have no idea how you feel :)... However I have found I fall easier deepeding on how the shoulder is compared to which type of irimi.

If your doing sokeum you really need to crank to wrist into the shinonage setup forcing the shoulder to drop.

If it's not sokeum you need to get your arm (and possibly the uke's arm deepending on the attack) way in the air to bring the head back. That way he's leaning back... And last grab their shirt collar and help them down with trailing hand.

Thats the best I can explain... I'm sure someone with more experience can help you more I'm only 6th kyu...

George S. Ledyard
04-10-2004, 10:27 AM
Hey all,

I was wondering what your tips were for applying my all-time fav move, Iriminage, to taller ukes. I am about 5'6" and most ukes are naturally taller and bigger than I.

Any help would be appreciated.

Andy
The answer for this is the same as for virtually all Aikido techniques, you need to bring the uke down to you on the entry. Most people make the mistake of trying to go up to the attacker.

The best way to practice this for most people is to do the technique from hanmi handachi (one standing one on the knees). You will seldom run into an attacker that is taller than an uke who is standing when you are not. It's all about relaxation. The moment your hands touch the uke you let them fall and the uke will be brought down to your center. At that point he's your size and you can execute your technique in the normal fashion.

If he is REALLY tall, like basketball player tall, you can also run the entire technique on his hips rather than his shoulders which is another very effective tecchnique for hanmi handachi.

Aristeia
04-10-2004, 03:46 PM
At 5' 4", I know how ya feel!

I think it depends a lot on the initial entry, with shomen uchi being the most difficult to deal with.

A nice close entry, then a body turn where you can drop your center (and by extension, theirs) as low as possible.

Let them come back up and then step through.
Hmm..not sure about this. Against a taller uke I've found that once you've cut them down it's better not to let them stand back up. If their taller its harder to blend with that motion to the point where you keep them off balance. I find once you cut them down you need to enter (or step back as someone else has pointed out) before they get back up and out of my reach. Hamni handachi is indeed useful here.

giriasis
04-11-2004, 12:50 PM
I'm 5'5" and I practice with tall ukes all the time, both strong and fluid ukes. The most important thing to do is to get behind them directly in their blind spot otherwise you feel like your "fighting" with them. Then drop your center by bending your knees as you tenkan this will bring them down.

To do the throw keep their head in tight to you shoulder, continue to keep you center low and make sure you really utilize their head (i.e. get that arm under their chin go up then down back behind their back). If you have hard time controlling them because of their size you can grap their collar. You can pull down on the back of it as you throw to get them to go down.

I've noticed if I experience any kind of resistance then I'm not getting behind them enough. Sometimes you really have leap or take an extra step to get behind them.

If you do it right, you shouldn't have to feel like you need to switch techniques or do something different. This is often my choice technique on the tall, big strong guys.

PaulieWalnuts
04-11-2004, 01:32 PM
Its very easy to make irimi nage on taller uke. First alway remember the basics of O-sensei his main rule was always be able to look over ukes shoulder and always be able to see the back of there neck. So the taller they are the deeper you have to enter. if you are not right behind uke(very deep) they can vewry easily elbow you in the ribs or walk out. and make sure you get there balance right down on your shoulder and not you arm(very big diiference)

jducusin
04-12-2004, 10:46 PM
As someone who is 5'1" tall (and just about EVERY uke is taller than me), I certainly empathize! :) I also second the advice given by both George and Anne Marie Giri on this, which is pretty well what I have been told in the past and have found that these work quite well (especially in combination).

However, I'm having a little trouble visualizing (namely hand positioning for) the following:
If he is REALLY tall, like basketball player tall, you can also run the entire technique on his hips rather than his shoulders which is another very effective tecchnique for hanmi handachi.
...perhaps you could shed some more light on this for me, George (it sounds interesting, and I'd love to try it)?

Thanks in advance,

Jamie

SeiserL
04-13-2004, 10:26 AM
The answer for this is the same as for virtually all Aikido techniques, you need to bring the uke down to you on the entry. Most people make the mistake of trying to go up to the attacker.
Gotta agree with Ledyard Sensei again.

As that 6'4" uke, with a 5' tall Sensei, I noticed he consistently gets me low on the irimi-tenkan enter and blend. Almost knuckle-draws me.

Create a flowing wave motion by going low first to get me at your level and break my balance. This creates the desire to stand back up, so you follow my momentum over and back. Don't let me stand up again.

Make sure you capture my head, even torque my neck a little.

Think more of the principles rather than just the mechanical technique.

George S. Ledyard
04-13-2004, 11:17 AM
As someone who is 5'1" tall (and just about EVERY uke is taller than me), I certainly empathize! :) I also second the advice given by both George and Anne Marie Giri on this, which is pretty well what I have been told in the past and have found that these work quite well (especially in combination).

However, I'm having a little trouble visualizing (namely hand positioning for) the following:

...perhaps you could shed some more light on this for me, George (it sounds interesting, and I'd love to try it)?

Thanks in advance,

Jamie
The line of the hips is one of the main balance lines of the body. If you enter in and place a hand on each hip (one arm reaching across the back to the opposite hip) then tenkan while tilting the line towards you, the uke will collapse. If you watch Ikeda sensei you will see him do this standing on the line of the shouldres and seated on the line of the hips.

jducusin
04-13-2004, 11:38 AM
The line of the hips is one of the main balance lines of the body. If you enter in and place a hand on each hip (one arm reaching across the back to the opposite hip) then tenkan while tilting the line towards you, the uke will collapse. If you watch Ikeda sensei you will see him do this standing on the line of the shouldres and seated on the line of the hips.
Thanks George --- that helps a great deal! From which attack(s) would this form of Iriminage be most effective? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that it might be a little awkward to transition from absorbing say, a Shomenuchi attack...(or better yet, I should just go ahead and try it to see for myself how to make it work!)

~Jamie

Janet Rosen
04-13-2004, 02:40 PM
To do the throw keep their head in tight to you shoulder, continue to keep you center low and make sure you really utilize their head (i.e. get that arm under their chin go up then down back behind their back).
this 5'2"-er concurs totally. As George noted, gotta let them come down to you (which for me means having patience in letting the attack come through), but once its down there, I find collar grabs useless, shoulder grabs iffy, and firmly nestling the head really ummm...irresistable unless I find some other way to mess it up.