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Matthieu
01-25-2001, 11:22 PM
I was just wondering, approximately how long do you people have to train to get to a shodan level.

It is not that I am eager to get mine right away, but I am curious about the other Dojos and style...

BTW I've been practicing for almost five years now and I am a sixth kuy (orange belt) in Yoshinkai Aikido (Chudokai federation).

Please do RSVP! Thanks!

JJF
01-26-2001, 02:09 AM
Hi Matthieu!

I must confess that I don't know what you mean by RSVP so I'll just answer you this way.

Basically to get a Shodan where I train (Danish Aikikai-dojo under Nishio Sensei) you would have to practice for about 7 years.

Some practice a little more - some a lot more, but very few less than 7 years.

I myself first took up Aikido 7 years ago, but I have been away for quite a long period of time, so I still have a long way to go. No need to worry though - as the trip is mostly enjoyable :)

Matt Banks
01-26-2001, 02:24 AM
Hi Matthieu,

Good name, im Matthew aswell. It means
'a gift from god' did you know that?
Anyway in the Yoshinkan it normally takes about 3-4 years to get to shodan, that is training 3 times a week at least. When training in japan I heard of people recieving shodan at the end of 1 year, not only on intensive training courses but in normal training.
I suppose a shodan is not held in such high regard in the east.?. It really does depend on the style. In the Yoshinkan as we have a set syllabus for each grade, its a bit easier to keep track of the timing for each grade etc etc. I know a guy who was a 3rd dan in daito ryu aikijujutsu and came to train with us. He shot up through the grades obviously and got his first kyu in 8 months, but he did train 6 times a week.


Can I ask a question?

Does anyone out there have to do a live tanto jiu waza for there shodan? We have to in the shudokan institue of yoshinkan aikido, and I dont think its a bad thing.



Matt Banks

JJF
01-26-2001, 02:56 AM
Matt Banks wrote:
Does anyone out there have to do a live tanto jiu waza for there shodan?
We have to in the shudokan institue of yoshinkan aikido, and I dont think its a bad thing.

Matt Banks
Hi Matt!
When you say "live" are you then referring to a tanto with a sharp handforged blade, or is it a replica with a dull casted aluminium blade similar to those used in some Iai-to swords ? I must say that I concidere it very reckless at ANY level to practice with a sharp blade. The risk is to big as accidents do happen. What might seem like a simple tanto-technique could be fatal for both uke, tori or any bistanders if you lost control for just one fraction of a second. In the dojo where I practice we use a wodden tanto, and it serves it's purpose. Of course I am aware that a live blade would force you to pay more attention and be more focused, but I concidere the risk to be to high when using any form of steel blade and the attention shouldn't be forced upon you - it should be developed through years of practice. Personally I would refuse to do the exercise with a live blade - no grading is worth risking anybodys life and health to such an extend, but that's just my opinion.

Sincerely

Simone
01-26-2001, 03:00 AM
Hello Matthieu!

Where I train, there's no "if you train 4 times a week you'll be blackbelt in x years". It depends entirely on yourself. I'm first kyu now and doing Aikido for almost 5 years. I hope to become blackbelt before the sixth year starts. But there are also Aikidoka who become blackbelt after 2 1/2 years. Now we have one who started Aikido in March 2000 and is 1st kyu also. He is really very good! But there are also people doing Aikido quite longer than me and are still 3rd kyu.

And, Matt, I don't know "jiu", but we do what we call tanto waza with a real blade for shodan. Do you train with a real knive before testing or is the grading the first time you take the real blade? Or did I misundestand your question?

Hope that helps,

Simone

Aikidoka2000
01-26-2001, 10:48 AM
I train In Seidokan style which reportedly is the most difficult to master.
I am unconcerned about obtaining status or rank. When it happens, it happens :) I look at this as a project that has no end. Constantly ongoing.
-Tomu

akiy
01-26-2001, 11:28 AM
I remember George Simcox sensei's reply to the question, "How long would it take to get a black belt?" His response was, "15 minutes -- just drop by the martial arts store on the corner. But, if you want to actually learn the art, that's another question entirely."

Anyway, the average I've seen people attain a shodan ranking has been about four to seven years but, of course, there are extremes. The shortest time I've heard of to reach that rank at the dojo where I am currently is two years (deservedly, if I may say so myself). I've also met people who had been 1st kyu for over a decade before they moved on.

Aikidoka2000 wrote:
I train In Seidokan style which reportedly is the most difficult to master.
Why would you say that?

In any case, I personally wouldn't say that anyone can master anything...

-- Jun

Matthieu
01-26-2001, 12:06 PM
I think I misled people with that thread...
I myself do not care for the rank. A black belt means nothing to my eyes. It his only a piece of garnement made so it will keep your GI from oppening up. I have seen third dan aikido practitionner who could not perform a shihonage. I was only an eighth kyu at that time and I had to show this person how to do it. This person must've started aikido trainning only a couple of years back and that deeply outraged me.
Furthermore, I will probably train for the next 6 or 7 years to obtain my shodan. That means I'll have train a whopping 11 to 12 years with my sensei before I reach this rank! I take a great pride of it also! And it is not because I am bad at it... Just last summer, my sensei couldn't attend a demostration that he was supposed to give. I was asked along with a 5th and 3rd kyu to perform the demonstration. We rocked the place. After the demo, a nidan came to us to congradulate on our aikido. She said that she had never seen such good control and displacements from people of our level. I really did feel great about that!
So, in other word, I somehow dispise people flashing a black belt to my face when they have been training for a shorter period that I have, especially when my skills are somewhat equal or greater than their's.
For me, ranks mean nothing. Usually, you know what you are worth, the teacher knows what you are worth. The ranking is just so people that are new to a particular style of MA knows to whom to turn to in case of doubt. And I wouldn't want to have a black belt teaching (or showing) techniques incorrectly to beginners.
Black belts students (or sempai) have a morale responsibility toward their MA. People seems to be unaware of this sometimes...

Erik
01-26-2001, 01:22 PM
JJF wrote:
Personally I would refuse to do the exercise with a live blade - no grading is worth risking anybodys life and health to such an extend, but that's just my opinion.


I 100% agree with this statement. I didn't and wish I did.

SeiWhat?!?
01-26-2001, 01:34 PM
Aikidoka2000 wrote:
I train In Seidokan style which reportedly is the most difficult to master.


Uh-Oh...Why do I see a whole new can of worms being opened here? And what do worms have to do with anything?:D
Anyway, IMHO, ANY style of any MA would be hard to master. Each art has it's own style and subtleties which make it unique.
It's this reason why it would take anywhere from 3-4 years to 6-7 years to earn a shodan rank.
Just remember, the higher the rank, the harder and faster you get thrown.;)
I hope I put the lid back on the worms.

P.S. I am also from Seidokan.

Cas Long
01-26-2001, 01:42 PM
Hi all!

I have not logged in for a while, & trust that everyone is keeping well!

It took me 5 years to reach Nidan, people are different; always take the time to be a good, attentive student, the rest will follow.......

Kind Regards to everyone.....

Cas Long

Magma
01-26-2001, 03:01 PM
Matt Banks wrote:
Can I ask a question?

Does anyone out there have to do a live tanto jiu waza for there shodan? We have to in the shudokan institue of yoshinkan aikido, and I dont think its a bad thing.

Matt Banks

Hi, Matt
I am testing for my 1st kyu one week from today (so on the 2nd of February) and I have Tanto Dori on that test. I have to defend against shomen, yoko, and tsuki... but that's just the start. They'll probably get funky on me before it's done. I know we won't use a "live" blade (as in sharpened), but we do have non-sharpened steel blades that give an added sense of realism. I don't know what I'll face until the uke takes the weapon.

Tim