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Chris Birke
03-30-2004, 06:12 AM
I seriously want to get my ukemi up to this level. I think it's amazing what our body is capible of; it's as though we've forgotten.

http://smokinn.fathamburger.com/files/monkey.wmv

mantis
03-30-2004, 10:54 AM
yeah, wait till they turn 40!

John Boswell
03-30-2004, 11:12 AM
IF... that is for real, and I have no idea what to make of it all, those guys could easily be on the verge of the latest/greatest "Extreame Sport/Generation X Sport."

Jackie Chan meets the Matrix !! LOL :D

Pretty cool footage, interesting to watch, but VERY scary to contemplate doing.

2 cents.

Jason Mudd
03-30-2004, 11:29 AM
I think it's called "Urban Thrashing" or something along those lines.

People treat the "urban jungle" as an obstacle course.

All I can think is that an injury is only a couple of moments away. But you do get to feel like Batman for a while. And that's pretty nice, itn't it?

Paul Melsness
03-30-2004, 11:34 AM
Like watching skaters doing board tricks - I wonder how many spills and twisted ankles were involved in the making of that film.

Fun to watch tho'

Paul

thisisnotreal
03-30-2004, 11:50 AM
More insanity HERE! (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/parkour/parkourenglish/page6.html)

Those guys are called 'LeParkour'

My absolute most dreaded clip is this ONE (http://www.le-parkour.com/cyril.mpeg).

Can the body really absorb this much?

apparently, yes. yes it can...

nutz.

William Westdyke
03-30-2004, 11:56 AM
It reminds me of a cartoon I once saw in the paper. It had a bunch of small kids lined up for karate class and one has raised his hand to ask a question of the instructor. "When do we get to learn the mid-air slow motion stuff?"

On a more serious note. How can you relate that in anyway to aikido ukemi? If a person really wanted to get to that level they should be working on their gymnastics.

paw
03-30-2004, 12:49 PM
IF... that is for real,

It is. Do a web search on "Joe Eigo" or "multi level moves" for similar....
On a more serious note. How can you relate that in anyway to aikido ukemi?
The development of physical attributes: coordination, strength, power, flexibility, balance, toughness, etc.... Does aikido change with someone that athletic?

On the other hand, there clearly is a law of diminishing returns if someone's goal is aikido. At some point, the time spent learning a backflip is time that cannot be spent working on ikkyo...and the skill development in learning the backflip doesn't transfer to aikido.

Regards,

Paul

Ron Tisdale
03-30-2004, 01:13 PM
Hi Paul,
Does aikido change with someone that athletic?
I'd think with someone that strong, balanced and flexible, my aikido had better be spot on...and yes, that would be a change for me... :)
At some point, the time spent learning a backflip is time that cannot be spent working on ikkyo...and the skill development in learning the backflip doesn't transfer to aikido.
I see what you mean...but say you have that level of control over your body...wouldn't that be a huge asset? You yourself often talk about using modern sport methods in aikido...I'll bet if you had 10 students with that level of control over their bodies, who also had a serious desire to learn aikido, you could probably make a real serious impact on the level of aikido in your area...

Ron

Robert Cowham
03-30-2004, 01:15 PM
There was a TV programme about it here in the UK - they called it "free running", and the group were shown touring various famous London buildings - quite impressive.

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/J/jump_london/

p00kiethebear
03-30-2004, 01:24 PM
I've seen these guys on TV before. They make some money as stuntmen and they do nike commercials too.

paw
03-30-2004, 01:53 PM
Ron,
I see what you mean...but say you have that level of control over your body...wouldn't that be a huge asset?

Absolutely, which is why I bought a pair of parallettes and spend a few minutes a day working on different stuff.
You yourself often talk about using modern sport methods in aikido...

Yes. I strongly advocate doing so and will continue to do so.

However, that's tempered by my being an athlete....as such I'm concerned about results, and the bottom line is you don't have to be able to do a standing back tuck to be really, really good at aikido.

Take kickboxing for example.... As far as I know, there's no rule against doing a jumping, spinning, triple kick to your opponent's side. But the time spent to learn to jump, spin and triple kick a resisting opponent would be better spent in just learning to kick them in the side. It wouldn't be as fancy, but it would be effective, efficient and has a long, proven track record of working.

Does that make sense?

Regards,

Paul

Ron Tisdale
03-30-2004, 02:14 PM
Oh, I certainly would never recommend the double flashy jumping spinny whatever...I'm just talking about the level of control these guys have. Add to that some decent training in a martial art, and you have a pretty good thing.

Ron (ex-psudo-athelete here)

Oh, what's a parallettes?

paw
03-30-2004, 02:37 PM
Ron,
I'm just talking about the level of control these guys have. Add to that some decent training in a martial art, and you have a pretty good thing.

Yup!
Oh, what's a parallettes?

Small, hand-held parallel bars (see This image (http://www.i-needtoknow.com/gym/olympic/pages/parallette.htm) ) for a visual. You can make your own for a few dollars, or buy "power pushups" from a local fitness store (I went to Sears -- $10) or pay $100 for really nice ones from a gymnastics store.

Regards,

Paul

DarkShodan
03-30-2004, 02:53 PM
I've seen this urban jungle gymnastics thing before. It is pretty cool. I would pay good money to see the 'training video' or the 'bloopers video'. Ouch!

Steven
03-30-2004, 03:21 PM
Hmmm, if memory serves me correctly, I'm pretty sure I have video of Ron doing ukemi like this during an enbutakai. In hakama.

Chris Birke
03-30-2004, 03:40 PM
I think people have a very fuzzy grasp of what the human body is capible of. It is much safer to err on the don't try it if it looks dangerous side.

Taking these falls wrong would kill you instantly.

Yet, it's possible. I think it's philosophic.

On a practical note, they always do what's needed to land feet first. Something I (and many ma's) neglect to do on the comfort of a mat.

No, it's not about kicking someones ass or surviving the attack of the angry biker. (How many of you really think you train for that?) It's about reaching places within yourself. Embrace everything like this!

aikidoc
03-30-2004, 05:11 PM
If you watch the feet of the guy doing the back flip off the "tall outhouse" it appears as if he is landing on some pretty soft ground. That's probably why he walked away.

Steven
03-30-2004, 06:15 PM
No, it's not about kicking someones ass or surviving the attack of the angry biker. (How many of you really think you train for that?) It's about reaching places within yourself. Embrace everything like this!
It's not?!? Dang .... Need to go call my sensei and ask what's up with that.

:p

alepkin
03-30-2004, 08:25 PM
The sport in question here is in fact Le Parkour (approximately translated to `the obstacle course'), also sometimes called Freerunning in English speaking countries. For a good primer about the sport and some of their philosophies, I would recommend checking out Urban Freeflow (http://www.urbanfreeflow.com/). This is a group of guys out of Great Britain, and some of them are really good. The founder of the sport, David Belle, has been at it for 20+ years, and I believe is also a well-regarded Wushu practitioner. Plyometric training is a big part of conditioning your body for such falls; clearly your knees are relatively at risk here. Personally, I think the philosophies of many traceurs (le parkour practitioners) dovetails nicely with that of many aikidoka.

Lan Powers
03-30-2004, 11:13 PM
Oh, to be that young and "springy"!

:)

Lan

Nafis Zahir
03-30-2004, 11:21 PM
Hey Chris!

I saw alot of gymnastics. But where was the ukemi?

Chris Birke
03-31-2004, 02:24 AM
Oh, doh, guess I goofed. What does ukemi mean?

PeterR
03-31-2004, 03:25 AM
Ukemi translates to receiving body. Uke is basically the guy who gets done and the techniques he uses to do that safely are called ukemi.

So purists would argue that without a doer (tori/nage/shite) there can be no doee (uke) and therefore no ukemi.

However, we do practice our ukemi skills solo and also use those same skills when the tori/uke distinction gets lost in sparring. I'm perfectly happy calling safe falling under any condition ukemi.

Yann Golanski
03-31-2004, 04:06 AM
I think that ukemi means escape in Japanese -- although, I could be wrong since my Japanese is basic.

But it seems to make some amount of sense. Shite is trying to do a technique that may injure uke -- say irimi nage does end up throwing someone on its back. On a mat, that's not too bad, on concrete it can hurt. Seen in that light, ukemi is just an escape from shite's attack.

*shrugs*

akiy
03-31-2004, 10:21 AM
I think that ukemi means escape in Japanese -- although, I could be wrong since my Japanese is basic.
I can't say that, to me at least, there's no connotion of "escape" in the term "ukemi." The verb "ukeru" basically means, "to receive."

Personally, I think ukemi is the antithesis of escape. Without engagement and "matching" in one's ukemi, there's absolutely no chance for reversals. Also, there'll some day be time when someone will throw you without your having any chance of escaping; without being comfortable in situations of receiving such throws, I think it's very difficult to take the techniques well as uke.

In any case, I feel that the falling and rolling parts of ukemi is a small part of it. The majority of ukemi, I'd say, is everything that happens before then (and even afterwards, if you're into newaza)...

-- Jun

Paul Melsness
03-31-2004, 01:26 PM
I seriously want to get my ukemi up to this level. I think it's amazing what our body is capible of; it's as though we've forgotten.

http://smokinn.fathamburger.com/files/monkey.wmv
Hey Chris,

If you 'seriously' want to be able to do this kind of stuff, I found this web site that has tutorials on how to do some of these 'tricks':

http://www.trickstutorials.com/mother_main.php

Be careful though - wouldn't want you to get hurt. :dead:

Paul

Chris Birke
03-31-2004, 04:45 PM
Yeah, I already researched it and found all these pages before I posted. I've been doing a bunch of rolls and hardfalls on concrete this last week. I've got nice bruises on the top left side of my hip and the bottom right side of my sholders. It's certainly changed the way I roll.

Just a little mistake certainly lets you know it's there.

First, I try to take as much with my feet and hands as possible (but in such a way as not to break ankles or wrists) and then go over the back with as much lateral energy as I can. Knees and elbows stay out of the process.

Also, I'm not sold on slapping concrete at all. I'll slap mat all day, but the concrete hits back.

Also, when going backwards, tucking the foot resulted in some real pain, I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Ooh, I'm also beginning to realise there isn't one "proper" way to fall or roll, as depending on what you're landing on really seems to play into the technique that works best.

All in all it's been tons of fun ;D.

Ghost Fox
04-01-2004, 06:52 AM
Yeah, I already researched it and found all these pages before I posted. I've been doing a bunch of rolls and hardfalls on concrete this last week. I've got nice bruises on the top left side of my hip and the bottom right side of my sholders. It's certainly changed the way I roll.

Also, I'm not sold on slapping concrete at all. I'll slap mat all day, but the concrete hits back.
Yeah on hard surfaces it's hard not to get those bruises especially if you're on the slim side like myself. Bones just naturally pertrude from those spots.

Regarding slapping a pair of padded weight-lifting gloves work wonders to take the sting of breakfalls.

Liz Baron
01-06-2005, 06:09 PM
I just watched the new "Jump Britain" on channel 4 here in the UK, and I'm resurrecting this thread on the offchance that there may still be some interest. The Urban Freeflow site says there will be another US airing of "Jump London" on TLC on Jan 9th at 5pm Eastern time.