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BLangille
03-10-2004, 10:40 AM
While some people on the mat are struggling/straining/sweating, there are others who move effortlessly, never seem to tire or even break a sweat. How long does it take to achieve this state of ease during aikido practice?

akiy
03-10-2004, 12:23 PM
How long does it take to achieve this state of ease during aikido practice?
How long is a piece of string?

I think it just takes experience in learning to move efficiently...

-- Jun

happysod
03-10-2004, 12:46 PM
Everyone should have worked up a sweat if they're training rather than teaching/meditating. Otherwise they're just cruising (yes, I plead guilty to cruising).

However, agree with wot Jun said as you should be able to do more with less as time goes by. You'll be less likely to waste energy through unnecessary use of force or by being tense due to the unfamiliarity of the movements.

aikidoc
03-10-2004, 03:18 PM
It is going to very by people. However, if you are working too hard with each technique you are probably muscling everything and not using your center.

Steven
03-10-2004, 04:05 PM
It gets easy?

BC
03-10-2004, 04:33 PM
I'm not sure if it ever gets easy. I've seen shihan and numerous senior practitioners sweating and huffing and puffing out on the mat.

Steven DeVaul
03-10-2004, 04:51 PM
As a new student to Aikido, I do not expect it to "be easy........EVER ." All good things require effort. You do not have to break a sweat every time. But their are times I WILL and SHOULD be sweating............and not skating through a class. There will be no chance for rehearsal on the street. Therefore, I always take my training seriously, but I have FUN doing it. For me Life and Aikido are like climbing a mountian. You can rest ( perhaps ) for a moment......but the climb continues. at times the summit seems higher than it is, other times the summit IS higher than what you believe. Either way.......keep going. I will be practicing and enjoying Aikido all my life ( the lord willing and the creek don't rise above the Dojo.....just a little humor. SD

mj
03-10-2004, 05:00 PM
While some people on the mat are struggling/straining/sweating, there are others who move effortlessly, never seem to tire or even break a sweat. How long does it take to achieve this state of ease during aikido practice?
This is the moment just before total collapse....you don't ever want to be there.

mantis
03-10-2004, 05:30 PM
How long is a piece of string?

-- Jun
Ha! very good response!

PeterR
03-10-2004, 06:49 PM
Never - they are always tossing in something new - moving the goal posts - destroying your delusions of mastery. Cruel, very cruel.

crand32100
03-10-2004, 08:23 PM
Brian,

It get's easier when you start to see around the box, so to speak. This means that you have to re-evaluate your approach. If you spend all of your time trying to out-think the other person, you'll always get caught in the trap of someone that knows more. When you can really watch what is happening right now while you practice, instead of trying to force this all to happen, things may get simpler. Difficult to describe. We mentally set ourselves up to fail sometimes before the other person has even moved as our bodies follow this tense mental energy. I watch Saotome sensei and he seems to be completely unpurterbed by uke's movement. It's not because he has super-powers, it's just because he's realized that caring/fearing about the other person's attack isn't necessary. If your mind doesn't have to buy it, you'll find your body doesn't either. Something that I noticed one day is that before the uke was even moving I was mentally and physically posturing myself to meet his attack. I decided not do anything the next time. I just stood as relaxed and unbothered as if I were alone in the room and watched. As uke moved in, I was able to move in a much more precise, relaxed, fluid, and disinterested manner. My body was able to follow that mental energy. Once I heard Bill Gleason Sensei refer to aikido as booring in comparison to other arts. Maybe that's what he means. Hope that helps

philipsmith
03-11-2004, 07:27 AM
It never gets easy - just different degrees of hard

j0nharris
03-11-2004, 08:30 AM
How long is a piece of string?

-- Jun
The more important question is, I think, how long is a piece of string cheese? (And is there enough for everyone?) :D

BLangille
03-11-2004, 11:20 AM
Thank you for your responses. I didnt mean to imply that aikido would ever be easy, hence the " marks. What I meant was more along the lines of, : I feel comfortable enough doing this technique that I can expend minimal effort but still send uke head over heels. Has anyone felt a moment like this?

ikkitosennomusha
03-11-2004, 10:19 PM
It should never get easy. If it does then you could always do more. But you are referring to technique difficulty and stamina. Well, it is as simple as your skill and endurance.

If you fully understand the principles behind the technique then you can utilize them. Until then you cannot. So if you are having trouble, realize that their is probably a vital principal you are overlooking. Also, you may need to work on cardio outside the dojo for the endurance.

Brad Medling

paw
03-12-2004, 06:16 AM
What I meant was more along the lines of, : I feel comfortable enough doing this technique that I can expend minimal effort but still send uke head over heels. Has anyone felt a moment like this?

If I understand correctly, you are referring to being "in the zone" or "flowing".

CNN has a more detailed story about this (http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/SM/00001.html)

If that is what mean, then for me, the answer is yes. In aikido, I can count the number of times on my hand and have fingers left over. In bjj, every class, for varying lengths of time.

Regards,

Paul

Robert Cowham
03-12-2004, 06:58 AM
I would agree that most people practising for any length of time achieve "easy" techniques - tremendous result with minimal effort.

A bit like hitting that massive straight drive in golf - just one of those every now and again can keep you hooked for ages! The pros have practised enough to do them more regularly, but they still hit horrible shots quite frequently.

Thus I can still count the techniques that "did themselves", as opposed to all the rest of them.

Regarding use of energy, I remember asking Suganuma sensei about this, and he said that he learned to actually gain energy during a seminar but it took him a long time! Part of this was stopping energy "leaking out" of his body. Maybe by the time I am 8th dan I will have worked it out....

Robert

Dyusan
03-15-2004, 07:56 AM
If it get's easy then we would quit.

George S. Ledyard
03-15-2004, 12:11 PM
If it get's easy then we would quit.
If it gets "easy" then you have quit.