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Paula Lydon
02-03-2004, 08:26 AM
~~Hi All! I tweaked my kneee again during irimi nage. I've tried different ukemi I but so far there's not one I really feel comfortable with (I'd rather perform a high back fall than this ukemi!). I've tried the drop inside knee and scoop outside leg around; drop hands to ground for support and scuttle around on toes; just doing a side fall and struggling to rise again. Not happy--HELP! The leg scooping ukemi in particular torques my knees but it seems the ukemi everyone is trying to master. I'm back in my knee brace. ARGG!
~~Jun, if you read this and there's a past thread on topic, please let me know. Thanks!

Bronson
02-03-2004, 09:35 AM
Ooohh, sorry to hear about the knee :( I'm afraid I can't give much more than sympathy as our style of irimi nage has uke sit straight down.

Bronson (actually, a lot of our techniques have uke sit straight down :freaky: )

Greg Jennings
02-03-2004, 10:42 AM
It depends on how nage applies the technique.

Our version always has uke's head on nage's upper chest/shoulder on the side opposite from the arm/hand that is taking uke's collar/neck/head.

In that form, I always stay in tight and curl my inside arm around the arm that nage brings past my face.

When nage then executes the technique, I can "ride around" their hip in a breakfall. I'd much rather do that than go down backwards.

I also then have a nice connection to throw nage with if he/she doesn't keep posture at the end of the technique.

YMMV,

Nacho_mx
02-03-2004, 11:15 AM
All forms of ukemi are available for receiving iriminage: ushiro, yoko ushiro, zempo, back breakfall, side breakfall. I agree it depends very much on nage´s speed, power and intention, but by default yoko ushiro ukemi works well in most circumstances. The knees (ouch!) should not be involved in any form of ukemi that I know off, except of course when one is learning the forward roll from seiza.

Ron Tisdale
02-03-2004, 11:33 AM
I think Paula is talking about the pivot where uke is lead off balance forward. Uke often kind of run run run kneel kneel get back up go whump! backwards. Yosh doesn't really do that version...different strokes and all that. I think Jun should have some suggestions here...

Ron

giriasis
02-03-2004, 03:00 PM
Paula,

I hated the ukemi from irimnage, too. I found that the first thing I must do, especially, with iriminage is just relax. I mentally would almost makeself go limp, until I could get used to the motion. What helped the most is to turn my foot closest to nage out and then step with the foot first. If I stepped with the other foot, it really made the ukemi a lot harder. This allows you to stay closer to nage.

On the going down part, I use more of a cartwheel type motion. One hand goes down next to the foot and the other leg goes up and over. (I did this motion baton twirling, we called it a reverse illusion. You can see figure skaters do this sometimes.) But you keep that forward foot on the mat.

It's a lot easier to show. Maybe Jun knows what I'm talking about and can show you? (You're both in the same dojo, right?)

But the biggest part that helped me was the relaxing and taking the first step with the inside foot, everything else sort of fell in place.

Lan Powers
02-03-2004, 05:43 PM
The description by Mr. Jennings is very much like the way it works best for me. (I like the hand on the nage's arm, that is holding your head Part)

The arm grip really helps to "ease" the stress of the off balancing.

Lan

Seems to for me, anyway

Jeff Sodeman
02-03-2004, 07:00 PM
I think the big problem with your knee is that your hips are probably facing out when the nage is behind you. Then the nage drops you to the ground at that "missing 3rd leg" point right behind your body.

This mean you're twisting as you come down, trying to turn a backward fall into a sideways fall so you can get your hand down to ease yourself to the ground.

Instead, when the nage enters irimi behind you, pivot your hips so you're facing in the direction you're going to go, sort of putting your leading shoulder into their chest. Now when they drop you're facing in the direction of the rotation and can bend you knees to go down without having to twist them at the same time.

Plus you're very close to your partner and don't have to move as far to go around them.

Let me know if that doesn't make sense and I can describe it in a couple different ways.

Hi to everyone in Boulder for me.

Nafis Zahir
02-04-2004, 01:21 AM
Taking a breakfall from irimi nage is much easier, but you can't also do that, especially if you get locked up. My advice to you is to purchase my instructors videos on ukemi. His name is Donovan Waite Sensei. You can go to www.aikidocentercity.com and purchase them. His ukemi has made taking ukemi much easier from any technique. One other you should do is lead your body with your hips. Keep trying! I know this seems like a shameless plug, but Waite Sensei's ukemi is by far the best and the safest.

Paula Lydon
02-04-2004, 05:43 PM
~~Thanks Jeff on the position on hips/knees; will try to be more aware of that.

~~Thanks Anne on cartwheel ukemi. Last night I saw someone doing what I believe you described and after class they helped me with it. Even with my knee a little off it felt very good, non-taxing and fluid.

~~Thanks to everyone out there messing with their bodies so that as a secondary aspect to saving their own butts, they have great ideas to pass on! :)

giriasis
02-04-2004, 08:38 PM
~~Thanks Anne on cartwheel ukemi. Last night I saw someone doing what I believe you described and after class they helped me with it. Even with my knee a little off it felt very good, non-taxing and fluid.
I'm glad it helped, and that you could make some sense of it. :/
~~Thanks to everyone out there messing with their bodies so that as a secondary aspect to saving their own butts, they have great ideas to pass on!
Hey! If someone else can learn from my aches and pains, then why not? :)