View Full Version : Its time to ask what do you believe?

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01-07-2001, 04:38 PM
Hi all!!

I made my name on the bottom can anyone tell me how to change my username?

I just reacently passed for my 5 kyu!! people are puncing at me for attacks instead to runing taword me! anyhow, how many of us belive in the feats of O-Sensi? I believe in most of them because that is just me but what about the rest?

some say well that is impossable and others say oh yeah he did it. I was wondering how many of us believe in that stuff of dodging bullets and such.

01-08-2001, 01:27 AM
I couldn't give you an answer regarding the name but I suspect you're stuck with it...

I haven't been in aikido as long as you have, I'm still just 6:th kyu but none the less I'd like to give my input on the feats of Ueshiba.

As I have gathered from reading just about anything I could find, Ueshiba was a man who(in my point of view-which in fact may be wrong)did not neccesairily say things in a way that I would define as normal.He was very ellusive and I do belive that most of his stories where rather allegoric(is that the word) meaning they where just other ways of telling the truth.

In fact the shooters could have been lousy aimsmen or maybe the man was just plain mad...(I beg pardon to those who believe different and there really isn't anything wrong with being mad)

01-08-2001, 07:52 AM
My understanding of the "dodging bullets story" is that he saw a flash before the bullets was fired. Like a premonition. Not that he actually dodged bullets.

O'Sensei embodied aiki. I have felt things in and out of aikido practice that I cannot explain. I have been able to do things in aikido that I cannot explain. When I give up trying to explain or understand them in a logical way they seem to come more freely. To make progress past a physical level I needed to have some faith and be open to the possibility of a reality beyond explaination and logic. The principles of aiki are a living thing. They cannot be pinned down and they do not fit in to a nice neat box. These principles are to be experienced and lived.

01-08-2001, 09:24 AM
Hi Chokolateuke!

I'm happy for your 5:th kyu grading.
To your Q: I don't want to be boring saying that the anwer to your beliefs or disbeliefs will come with training. As PRapoza I've experienced things on and off the mat, after I began to train, that I just can't explain. I have felt (somehow) possible danger and been able to avoid them. Quite frankly I've stoped giving to much thinking of it. With training comes sensebility(sp?) and with aiki training you learn how to use that in e.i maai and stepping of the line of attack - just as O-sensei did.

I hope that I didn't confuse you even more now! :)

Jakob B

01-08-2001, 10:24 AM
I often wonder, when asked about if the stories are true or not, is that does it
really matter? I seek what is true in the here and now. I see, I feel, I experience.
Faith may be defined in some circles as a firm belief in something for which there
is no proof. Since no of us knew O'Sensei personally, we can never really prove
or disprove the stories. I consider them for what they are, which are insights into
what is indeed possible in the realm of the human spirit. As to if the stories are
really true or not, I look to the message, rather than the messenger.

01-09-2001, 03:30 AM
Hi Tomu,
I have to completely agree with you.
It doesnt matter if you believe it to be true or not. there is no way of knowing either way, so why hold to one belief when there are other options open.
Aikido teaches this principle very well I find. If we hold a belief about something that is going to happen, in randori for instance, then we are not ready for anything and can get hit.
If we disregard belief, and have infinite expectation realising that anything is possible in any given moment then we are able to become in harmony with what uke chooses to do.

Aikido is all about the moment


01-11-2001, 12:37 AM
There are just way too many personal accounts of what O'Sensei had done.

First, you've got to realize that O'Sensei was a mind reader. At one time, O'Sensei had an encounter with a master marksman and he let the marksman know at the last second that he had gotten him, that he could not dodge his bullet because he was a true master marksman that could "shoot without shooting", meaning; The marksman didn't think about pulling the trigger, and was so fluid that O'Sensei could not read his mind or read his movements.

There are many accounts of him reading people's minds. Just think, if you had flawless technique and the ability to read minds, you'd be invincible too. But, would you go around telling people that you could read minds? If he did that, I doubt anyone would want to be around him. And of course he spoke in riddles. This way, only believers would understand what he's talking about, plus the forces that he experienced are probably very difficult to put into words.

There were plenty of times when Morihei took off into the mountains by himself to be alone. I would do this too, if everone's thoughts were bombarding me all the time. There's a reason why most of us can't read people's minds. It would drive us insane, because our minds aren't strong enough to handle it. Make your mind strong enough, and who knows....

Have any of you ever had your minds read? It is very freaky, trust me. I've had my mind read by an Aikido master before, and after that, it was hard for me to think when I was around him. But, in a way, it was comforting for some odd reason.

Morihei also had the ability of "thought control". I'm sure you've heard the term, "lead your opponent"...

01-11-2001, 08:43 AM
jin wrote:
There are just way too many personal accounts of what O'Sensei had done.

First, you've got to realize that O'Sensei was a mind reader.

That's the problem with "Personal" accounts...they tend to get better wtih time....and with the human nature towards embellishment a deity is born. We believe what we want to believe and we "see" what we want to "see" and we interpert the truth based on our own experience.

01-12-2001, 01:58 PM
O Sensei was a mind reader and had "thought control?" Oh come on!!! He never claimed to be that! Hardly anyone really understood some of the things he said because he often expressed himself in terms of his Omoto/Shinto belief system. Most of the tall tales that are found in Stevens Sensei's books about O Sensei have been refuted by many leaders in aikido, including the late Doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba. He was simply an incredible martial artist.

01-13-2001, 02:40 AM
O Sensei was a mind reader and had "thought control?".

Master gamblers are mind readers too. No real trick to it other than very careful observation of another persons body language and enough experience with people to know what certain subtle movements and facial expersions indicate they are going to do. You practice that skill long enough, you dont even have to think to pick up the clues and act correctly on them. For that matter, just about everyone with lots of experince driving in heavy rush hour traffic in just about any large city you can name is a mind reader to some degree...ever had to experience of just 'knowing' a car was going to suddenly move into your lane and barely gettng out of the way before it did? I have. and usualy when you think about it you really can't think of anything it was doing that could have clued you in. But there was something or probably several somethings, that your mind picked up on and you had enough experience with other drivers for it to cause you to react.

Master magicians use thought control too...on as many people as are in the audience all at the same time. No trick to that either, just a good working knowledge of how the human mind works. That's why things like Elephants and airplanes can be made to disappear right before everyone's eyes.

Want to try a little experiment to see just how active your own subconcious is concering whatever situation you find yourself in and how hard it is trying to provide you with responses? Try this. Next time you are having a problem figuring something out and it's starting to frustrate you, stop and just stare at a blank wall. dont think, just let your mind go blank. You'll find that fairly quickly you'll suddenly have a 'flash' of insite as to how to solve the problem you were stuck on.

Osensei was a highly trained warrior with highly trained reflexes and highly trained observation skills. Not overly hard for him to know if someone was also highly enough trained not to take chances on.