Another 'knee pain' post

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[GLWeeks]

Hello everyone... (New poster here!)

Well, I've been taking Aikido since June and now I'm getting ready to go see a doc about my knee... To give you a bit of info, put your finger on your left kneecap, now move it to the left until you're touching the side of your knee, know move it down about 1"-1.5". That is where I'm having pain.

I don't know how it happened but I started feeling it while doing front rolls (with my right leg forward when going into the roll). Now it is bothering me all the time during class. Taking a fall is really bad (especially when I tuck my left leg).

I wanted to know if anyone has had this particular type of injury or if anyone has heard of something similar..

Thanks!

[Nick Simpson]

Hey Guy,

sorry to hear your in pain with the knee. I had a similar problem in march and april, I got a shooting pain in my knee that was agony when walking and a dull throb when sitting down. I thought it was an injury at first, but after a trip to the physiotherapist they told me I had trapped a nerve due to impact on my knee from running.

I got some strecthing exercises and after I did them everday for about 3 weeks the problem went. I would definately go to the doctor and see what he has to say, I was lucky because the physio here was free but Im not sure about the healthcare in your area, hope you get sorted out soon.

[Janet Rosen]

It could be anything from tight muscle to damaged meniscus. Get thee to a sports medicine doc.

[aikidoc]

Sounds from your description that you might have an inflammed iliotibial band insertion. One way to check this is to bend your knee and have someone put pressure on the spot. Then extend your knee (Noble's Test)-if this cause pain you might have some inflammation in the iliotibital band. I would definitely get this checked-and ice while waiting to get checked (15 minutes at a time).

[siwilson]

Sounds to me like you are banging your left knee as you come up from a right forward roll. Try going back to basics, practicing the rolls slower and starting them bent low.

Hope you get better soon.

[Thalib]

There's a possibility, this happens to many, when one rolls, the leg is limply extended and it acts like a whip. When your leg hits the ground, the lower leg bends sideways intead in the direction of the knee. Even worse is if the lower leg reaches the ground first sideways, taking the weight of the whole body in an unnatural direction. One might not feel it, but in time this will take it's toll in the knee area.

There is also a possibility, when one is doing ushiro ukemi or taking ukemi for techniques such as 1kyo-5kyo, the knee hits the ground first. Many underestimate taking ukemi for 1kyo-5kyo. Try going down knee first on concrete.

Ukemi is not about falling, it is about controlled descent.

[philipsmith]

Could be several things including:

ilio-tibial band syndrome

lateral ligament strain

hamstring tendinitis

or even just a bruise.

Suggest you see a physiotherapist who specialises in sports injuries, or who deals with dancers a lot.

[GLWeeks]

Thanks everyone!

I got a referral to a sports medicine doc and hope to have a appointment asap.

This is a real downer for me.... I cannot enjoy my class time now because instead of focusing on what we are doing at the time I find myself thinking, "ok how do I do this so it doesn't hurt". Really ticks me off because since I started Aikido I have really enjoyed it and I try to go as much as possible without ticking the wife off. :)

I'll keep everyone posted on what the doc says...

[GLWeeks]

Well, the MRI came back normal. Normal? It doesn't feel normal. *sigh

I suppose I'll start doing some exercises on my Bowflex to try and strengthen it up a bit.

[Rich Stephens]

Guy, have you seen this website about knee injuries and Aikido? I haven't read it all but perhaps there is some useful information in there for you.

http://www.zanshinart.com/Aikido/AikiKnee.html

[Don]

Here's a weird one. Has anyone ever strained or had tendinitis of the popletius muscle? That's a small but important muscle that attaches to the outsie of your knee and wraps around the back of it to attach its other end to your tibia (the big bone in your lower leg). I think I have strained or induced tendenitis in this. It is only in my left leg. It occurs when I am rolling and the left leg is the tucked leg. I have been modifying my rolling ukemi of late to come up with a softer roll. This involves (a) getting lower in the approach to the roll (duh), (b) orienting my roll so that I roll more across my back (turning your head back at nage facilitates this). You know-all the stuff you were taught but never learned. Well anyway this makes for a nice silent roll and can even make breakfalls better. In a roll, you come up around the tucked leg, not bearing significant weight for any period of time. In my right leg, there is no problem. In my left leg, I started experiencing pain on the lateral aspect (outside) of my left knee. At first I thought this was iliotibial band syndrome, but then I noticed that pain flowed down into the back side of my calf just below the backside of my knee. This is generally not part of ITB. This last Sunday the pain was significant and the part of my tibia where the popletus muscle joins was sore as well as the outside of my knee. Anyone experience this?

[John Boswell]

Hey Guy,

I have pain in my knees all the time, various areas. Things I do to help it are: Ice packs after class, glucosimine tablets (this is the stuff that helps keep cushioning in the joints, check with a health specialist/pharmacist if you have questions), stretching... a lot and of course: exercise.

Knees take a lot of stress in Aikido, imho. Take good care of them and you'll be thankful years down the road. ;)

[GLWeeks]

Thanks for the info...

I'm going to start exercising it a bit extra and I actually have some of that glucosimine, but they are horse tabs so I quit taking them. I guess I'll start taking them again.

It wouldn't be so bad if the pain wasn't so darn sharp...

[Ian Upstone]

Sorry to hear about the knee. Almost everyone I know who does any sport long term seems to get a knee injury of some sort!

If your problem stems from rolling, it might be worth analysing how you do left sided breakfalls if you're falling as much on that side and are not getting any problems with it.

Or if you've not already made an unchangable habit of falling in a particular way, it might be an idea to experiment with different ways of falling. In Yoshinkan aikido for example, the back leg is kept straight instead of tucked (so that you end up on the opposite posture when you stand back up again). In this particular way, the knee makes no contact with the ground. It may not be the 'correct' way in your dojo, but may be useful to know, or at least experiment with.

I'm not saying keeping the leg straight is the answer, but it's an example of falling in a different way.

Anyway, hope this gets better, and hopefully this is only a temporary problem!

[fatebass21]

Very common. I have been dealing with high hamstring tendinitis and ITM syndrome as a result of scoliosis. Always affects my training. Just try to do daily stretching and body weight exercises/plyometrics for strengthening.

[fatebass21]

It's been a few weeks now, how are your exercises going?

[Walter Martindale]

er... it's actually been a few years. The last update to this thread before your contribution was in 2004. Sometimes it's good to check the age of a thread and then gauge whether or not it's worthwhile responding. I've been taken to task in the past for bringing up the fact that someone's replied to an old thread because there's a chance that there's new information (e.g., the "don't stretch before training" is something most high-performance sports have been doing for a while) but if it's referring to one guy's specific knee injury in 2003 it might not warrant comment. Don't want to scold about thread resurrection but I'd be very surprised if you get a reply from the OP.

[fatebass21]

Thanks for catching that Walter I should have checked the date. Must have been an early morning pre-coffee post ;)