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akiy
10-21-2003, 04:16 PM
Hi everyone,

So, what do you think aikido will be like in fifty years?

-- Jun

shihonage
10-21-2003, 05:30 PM
A means for me to win all wrestling competitions in the retirement home.

MikeE
10-21-2003, 05:57 PM
Better.

As long as their are great instructors and dedicated students, the students will be able to "stand on the shoulders of giants". As long as the Founder's principles are adhered to, I think it will be great and I hope I'm around to enjoy it.

Chris Li
10-21-2003, 06:02 PM
As long as the Founder's principles are adhered to, I think it will be great and I hope I'm around to enjoy it.
What would you say the Founder's principles are?

Best,

Chris

sanosuke
10-21-2003, 08:17 PM
there will be traditional aikido, modern aikido, police aikido, street defense aikido, grappling aikido, women aikido, aikido for special forces, anti-rapist aikido, real life aikido, etc, etc.

Jeanne Shepard
10-21-2003, 09:50 PM
If I'm still alive, I will be in Old-Aiki-Folks Home, where the mats are really deep and cushy. Hopefully, iwill have escaped osteoporosis.

Jeanne

Nacho_mx
10-21-2003, 10:11 PM
Remember an episode of the first season of Star Trek the Next Generation? The security officer (Tasha Yar, played by Denise Crosby) is asked to give a self defense demonstration to an alien leader. Her choice? Aikido :)

Abasan
10-21-2003, 10:22 PM
Aikido will then be one of those really obscure arts that everyone watches in the movies and buys on merchandise but no one really practices except those older generation ppl who are dying anyway.

Of course in 50 years time there would be no need for martial arts for self defence since everyone who can afford it would have nano implants that allows them to move at great speed and reflexes with above human strength and also come equipped with muscle memory of the greatest martial artists alive/dead. Then, anyone who attacks them would be severely crippled unless those guys have even more nano implants maybe even military issue ones.

Only old coots still interested in harmony and musubi would be going to the dojo. Much good it'll do them.

Lan Powers
10-21-2003, 11:02 PM
<

Only old coots still interested in harmony and musubi would be going to the dojo. Much good it'll do them.>

:eek: What of us who are old coots already?

Hoping that the homes orderly will submit to nikyo, and bring more cherry jello.

Lan :D

indomaresa
10-22-2003, 07:39 AM
50 years? ...

we'll practice on gravity suspensor mats, to avoid any injury

Multiple Holo-ukes can be called anytime, from the holo-simulation rooms. hmmm...

hakamas are inflatable, heat resistant, water-proof, and most of all... has zippers ^_^

Long-distance, real-time seminar via the internet with tele-sensory enhancement enabling us to feel the shihan's nikkyo

There's going to be a 20th Dan rank because medical science prolonges life upto 200 year

A movie called "The Aikido Kid" is going to be produced. Starring Seagal as the old aikido man, and Joel Osmond as the Aikido Kid

-----------------------------------------

How about 100 years?

We can execute all the deadly techniques, train seriously with live katanas, because bacta tanks will revive us anyway

our bokkens are rectractable into the tsuba (hand guard), and glows brightly when extended by flicking a switch. It also makes buzzing noises when swinged.

what can I say? I'm a star wars fan

Maresa

SeiserL
10-22-2003, 08:11 AM
IMHO, if you unify and stick to the roots Aikido will last like a lot of the traditional martial arts. If we continue to split and play politics, Aikido will be something you only read about in obscure history books as just anoth cult or fad.

philipsmith
10-22-2003, 08:14 AM
One things for sure: just like today it will be the same but different all over the world

MikeE
10-22-2003, 08:22 AM
What would you say the Founder's principles are?

Best,

Chris
I guess I would start here:

http://www.aikiweb.com/general/founder.html

My thought is that Aikido will aid in the cultivation and evolution of each person, and this should lead future Aikidoka farther down the path that many are on today.

Chris Li
10-22-2003, 10:58 AM
I guess I would start here:

http://www.aikiweb.com/general/founder.html
What if you replaced each instance of the word "Aikido" in the linked passages with the word "Karate"? Would you still be training in accordance with the principles of the founder?

I also have to note that the bulk of the founder's actual writings on this kind of thing have yet to be translated, and are very difficult to read even in Japanese. Even in Japan I met very few people who had actually read them. Given that fact, how many people are really more than superficially conversant with Morihei Ueshiba's thinking?

Best,

Chris

happysod
10-22-2003, 11:22 AM
I think (hope) it'll be just the same, just the names and faces will change. The O'sensei stories will have taken on even more mythic status and at least four more revisionist histories of aikido will be available in paperback. As for aikiweb, the two main camps, hit 'em hard/no lets harmonise will still battle for net supremecy...

An alternative apocalyptical version has the UK banning all ma's as too potentially dangerous to criminals and all of us doing aikidosise. :D

aiki_what
10-22-2003, 02:16 PM
Instead of bokkens we will have light sabers and O'sensei will come back as Yoda.

sanosuke
10-22-2003, 07:39 PM
our bokkens are rectractable into the tsuba (hand guard), and glows brightly when extended by flicking a switch. It also makes buzzing noises when swinged.

hopefully there won't be Jedi-ryu aikido also, and Maresa, may the ki be with you.....

jk
10-22-2003, 09:38 PM
So many Star Wars fans. Maybe y'all should read this (note no. 7 on the list):

Ten geekiest hobbies (http://www.thewavemag.com/pagegen.php?pagename=article&articleid=24184)

:)

I think I'll agree with Chris...there probably isn't much you'll find in aikido principles/philosophy (whatever that is) that you can't find elsewhere in the wonderful world of the martial arts.

The practice of aikido will persist, and most likely due to the many things you are able explore while engaged in cooperative aikido kata practice; things that are more difficult to do when you're trying to actively beat each other into a pulp. Not that actively beating each other into a pulp isn't fun...

MikeE
10-22-2003, 11:08 PM
What if you replaced each instance of the word "Aikido" in the linked passages with the word "Karate"? Would you still be training in accordance with the principles of the founder?

I also have to note that the bulk of the founder's actual writings on this kind of thing have yet to be translated, and are very difficult to read even in Japanese. Even in Japan I met very few people who had actually read them. Given that fact, how many people are really more than superficially conversant with Morihei Ueshiba's thinking?

Best,

Chris
Jeez Chris,

My cup is half full. How is yours?

So, the "bulk" of the Founder's actual writings have yet to be translated. A broad and encompassing statement like that should be qualified with sources. Not that I disagree with you. In fact, I admit my ignorance. You obviously are better connected to whomever is in control of O'Sensei's writings.

I just think that the portion we have of O'Sensei's principles are a good start for guiding our training.

What do you think?

Chris Li
10-23-2003, 02:06 AM
Jeez Chris,

My cup is half full. How is yours?

So, the "bulk" of the Founder's actual writings have yet to be translated. A broad and encompassing statement like that should be qualified with sources. Not that I disagree with you. In fact, I admit my ignorance. You obviously are better connected to whomever is in control of O'Sensei's writings.
"Takemusu Aiki" and "Aikido Shinzui" are both openly available in Japanese, but not in English. In "Takemusu Aiki" Morihei Ueshiba discusses in a fair amount of depth his conception of what "Aikido" is, and, after reading it, I realized that what is available in English is really more or less a collection of out-of-context clippings. They're not wrong, but it's the something like the difference between someone quoting bible passages at you and actually having the full text of the book in front of you. Even things like the only really comprehensive biography of Morihei Ueshiba ("Aikido Kaiso, Ueshiba Morihei Den" by Kisshomaru Ueshiba) have yet to make their way into English.
I just think that the portion we have of O'Sensei's principles are a good start for guiding our training.

What do you think?
Maybe, except that I could bring you ten different students of Morihei Ueshiba with ten different interpretations of the "Founder's principles" (each an every one stating definitively that they adhere to said principles). I've found the situation to be even worse when you get a couple of generations away and into a foreign language (English, in this case).

Best,

Chris

markwalsh
10-23-2003, 06:13 AM
After the Bush/Blair induced apocalypse, Mad Max Style sensei will stalk the wastelands dishing out justice and bringing harmony to the force, until a peaceful world government is established under the leadership of a cloned O’Sensei.

Seriously, 50 years is fairly hopeful IMHO for global survival, but every little helps, so lets keep at the wrist grabbing.

If we and aikido are still around I think rank (no common standard) and organisations (too many) will have become so meaningless as to be ignored.

Mark

x

happysod
10-23-2003, 07:42 AM
Mark, "If we and aikido are still around I think rank (no common standard) and organisations (too many) will have become so meaningless as to be ignored" - here I was thinking MikeE was the optimist, no rank or organisations?

Au contraire I agree, we will see a multitude of both with ever more grandiose titles introduced by to justify preeminance (super shihan a la dragonball springs to mind..). However, far from them being ignored they will become even more important to the bureaucratic and even used as basis for government "teaching certificates", aikido-l seminar members will be hunted down as the deviant mas that they are...:D

John Boswell
10-23-2003, 09:40 AM
So many Star Wars fans. Maybe y'all should read this (note no. 7 on the list):

Ten geekiest hobbies (http://www.thewavemag.com/pagegen.php?pagename=article&articleid=24184)

:)

I think I'll agree with Chris...there probably isn't much you'll find in aikido principles/philosophy (whatever that is) that you can't find elsewhere in the wonderful world of the martial arts.

The practice of aikido will persist, and most likely due to the many things you are able explore while engaged in cooperative aikido kata practice; things that are more difficult to do when you're trying to actively beat each other into a pulp. Not that actively beating each other into a pulp isn't fun...
You think their probably isn't much in aikido that you can't find elsewhere? Do you even know what Aikido is??

The only thing geekier than "star wars" fans and the people like them, are the ones who troll from various boards and philosophize

about subjects on which they are ingnorant.

Sorry, JK, but where do you get off posting here if you don't even know what Aikido is? I've only be practicing about a year and a half and I read up on it when I can and when I find something interesting. And yet, despite my limited knowledge, I know aikido is truely unlike all other martial arts despite the fact that it is classified a "martial art."

There is no beating people to a pulp in aikido. In fact, there are no beatings at all despite stories to the contrary. Bad ukemi? Sure. Over-zealous student? on occassion. But we don't beat to a pulp anything... except bokkens maybe. ;)

Have a nice day!:D

zachbiesanz
10-23-2003, 10:32 AM
As long as we don't get to the point where there are striped (and even camouflage) belts, I think I'll be happy.

I also hope to see an increase in cross-organizational friendship seminars.

jk
10-23-2003, 09:35 PM
Hi John,

There seems to be a fundamental disconnect here, and the blame seem to lie in my less-than-stellar writing style.

It's encouraging that after one and a half years of practice, you are assured of aikido's uniqueness. I will admit my inability to accurately describe in black-and-white, after a few paltry years of aikido practice, just what aikido is and isn't. Hence the use of the word "probably." What I do want to say is that we are in agreement that aikido is a singular martial art that stands on its own; HOWEVER, this doesn't preclude the existence of many common elements, philosophical or otherwise, between two or more unique martial arts. That was the only point I wanted to make.

As for beating people into a pulp, when did I say that was what aikido was about? In an attempt to be clearer, I will say that the cooperative kata practice of aikido is more conducive to learning elements such as blending, sensitivity, non-resistance, and the like. This is IN CONTRAST to "beating each other to a pulp," which is my clumsy vernacular for non-cooperative practice/sparring/what-have-you that you may find in other martial arts. For me, the cooperative kata practice is a very enriching experience, and I am of the opinion that this is what will contribute to aikido's staying power.

I plead guilty to being a major geek, for being excruciatingly ignorant about a lot of things, and for making dastardly fun of poor innocent Star Wars fans. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Will this do to assuage any hurt feelings?

Have a nice day too, John. :)

Regards,

indomaresa
10-24-2003, 01:02 PM
well, if we're going to talk about martial art philosophy....

The techniques & training are different, but the BUDO ( warrior path ) is the same.

All japanese MA has the same goal, the enlightenment. The understanding. The level where you can destroy your opponent just by thinking about it - and not wanting to do it (just like in the stories). Again, they're all BUDO.

What's different in Aikido from other martial art? That depends... Basic Aikido is purely technique. The sequences are; contact-cause kuzushi-throw or contact-joint lock. We do know that O'sensei `combined` several different martial art into the aikido we know and love. This part of aikido is similar to several other martial arts. But after several years training you'll PROBABLY stumble upon or be taught gazillions of other secrets like musubi, awase, takemusu aiki, etc etc etc etc etc. This is what makes aikido unique.

Aikido is DIFFERENT from most martial art because it emphasizes harmony. The way we train aikido shows that fact.

Chinese Tai Chi is very similar to Aikido, like a long lost sister. The harmony concept also appears there. But there's no Budo, so I guess that will make a difference.

Chin Na, is a joint lock and unbalancing martial art, VERY similar to aikido. But there's no harmony there. No Budo either.

Mr. Kuo here seems to have a wide experience / knowledge of different MA. Hence his opinion. But I do believe that there's a LOT in Aikido you can't find anywhere else. ( watch o'sensei videos, you'll see )

To Reza; Jedi-Ryu Aikido? What a concept! hmm... I can imagine it already...

may the ki be with you too Reza.

-still a star wars fans-

John Boswell
10-24-2003, 02:41 PM
JK,

My apologies to you.

I made it a special point to track down this this thread as my words the other day were rather harsh... and I really wanted to know what you had to say.

In my own defense, just reading that first post of yours (the first and only post of yours I could recall at that time) left me with the distinct impression that you were out to trash Aikido and generalize it in and with any and all other martial arts. Though I have only a couple years familiarity with Aikido itself, my understanding on the philosophy behind it has a greater number of years and that's why I latched on as strongly to Aikido the way I have.

Why couldn't you have been so well spoken earlier as you were just now??? :p I look over the two posts and its two different people to me... sorta.

BUT... my original reaction to your post was harsh and I do apologize. Your humor was lost on me and I missed a great deal of what you were REALLY saying as opposed to what I thought I had read.:confused:

Anyhow... all that behind us, I get where you are coming from now and am sorry for the misunderstanding and any hurt feelings! I'll shuddup now and go pass judgement somewhere else. ;)

/bonk self :rolleyes:

Laters!

jk
10-24-2003, 09:03 PM
John, it's not a big deal; happens all the time on web forums...my adolescent self seems to take over the keyboard when I really should be holding my tongue. Kinda had it coming.

Hi Maresa, some would find fault with your description of Tai Chi and Chin Na, but that's life. :) I was a Star Wars fan too, until the new movies came out... ;)

TomanGaidin
10-25-2003, 04:28 AM
A little off topic, but... is it just me, or would a Jedi-Ryu MA be interesting? No doubt it's the Star Wars geek within me. Each Jedi seems to have their own distinctive 'style' in the films, yet they're all taught by masters at a very young age, so by adulthood they'd no doubt have developed their own twist on things.

I can imagine a Jedi-Ryu'd be mostly swordplay mingled with a bit of basic hand to hand, alongside ki - I mean Force - training. If I'm not mistaken, the fight between Obi Wan and Vader in the first (Ep4: ANH) Star Wars film was roughly based around kendo. Speaking of Star Wars MAs, though, there is one mentioned in the extended universe... Teras Kasi. Sounds a little like a futuristic form of Krav Maga.

Ahem. Anyway, that aside, in fifty years I honestly think aikido will be much the same. Each student who goes on to teach seems to develop their own interpretation of the art, but for the most part this seems to be differences in training method/emphasis. The core, IMHO, would remain the same even after all of fifty years. Though don't take my word for it - I'm horrible when it comes to answering questions like these.

indomaresa
10-25-2003, 02:45 PM
Aha! my opinion exactly chris.

there's sooo many similarity between aikido and the jedi arts. it's hard not to notice them. (other than the telekinetic part, that is - but who knows? maybe aikido can do that too)

John Kuo; I am being very general and described the mentioned martial arts from passing recognition only. Very very passing.

Like a gust of wind in a lonely desert.

Unheard and forgotten. ^_^

What caught me from star wars is the story and concept anyway, so it doesn't really matter how they botched it. The fact that it has light sabers is enough for me

Maresa

Kevin Leavitt
10-25-2003, 03:41 PM
Do you think it is an accident that Star Wars so closely resembles Aikido and Eastern Philosophy?

George Lucas studied intently classic film and mythology and eastern philosophy.

He basically combined the films of Kurosawa and the Writings of Josephy Campbell to produce star wars which was really just a conglomeration and was very successful.

In a way he was the 20th Century Chaucer!

indomaresa
10-26-2003, 06:59 AM
I wonder what rank is Darth Vader?

8th Dan - Dark Jedi?

sanosuke
10-26-2003, 08:27 PM
he should've wear metal hakama instead of that mask

TomanGaidin
10-27-2003, 05:29 AM
Darth Vader would more likely be about the 3rd or 4th Dan level, really. Palpatine would probably be around 6th or so. Luke.. possibly a shodan, in the RotJ era ;p. Now, Yoda... 9th Dan or so, I'm sure ;).

Just a thought - maybe we could concoct a Jedi-Ryu - all we'd have to do is mix some sword arts with Yellow Bamboo.

Lan Powers
10-27-2003, 05:11 PM
Yellow Bamboo!!! *snort, snort, choke*

Lord knows you gotta LOVE that crap!

Lan

indomaresa
10-31-2003, 09:07 PM
Use the ki luke, Use the ki

-obi wan-

fjcsuper
11-01-2003, 09:35 AM
I think maybe in 50 years, advanced technology may enable us to train using virtual reality...

Maybe you will be able to make up any type of attack scenario, like multiple attackers, or virtual ukes with a certain MA background, weapon attacks, or simply any random 'person' on the streets.

And of course... with full 3D video playback!

markwalsh
11-01-2003, 10:43 AM
Was discussing this with some friends and someone mentioned that sensei could have a suit that controlled the movement of his/ her students suits (smart gis), thus speeding up the learning process. We generally agreed that this was missing the point and was a bad idea.

I've heard a dojo seriously discuss a live web cam, internet link up to a sensei who lives far away. Anyone done this yet?

On the VR front (Matrix style) you could also kill your ukes, but I think that'd be missing the point big time!

Mark

x

indomaresa
11-02-2003, 03:57 AM
Well, the gi idea can be modified, allowing the gi to beep everytime you did a technique incorrectly. ( imagine that.. hahaha )

We could program the gi with different Software. Just download the data to the obi through a USB port. ( that's where the Pentium XV Processor is located )

^_^

Usagi Yojimbo
11-15-2003, 09:41 PM
Gi's will have smart padding so as to not hamper movement while providing maximum protection from falls up to 50 ft onto solid concrete. And may also have built in strnegth enhances to enable hip throws sending a weight of up to a 250lb Uke 50 feet in the air. These same enhancements will also provide for reaction enhancement, enabling new, anti-firearm techniques, and other techniques to teach how to catch swords or Tanto's with your bare hands. Mats will provide adjustable comforts, and may be disbanded entirely for pratice upon hover platforms, leading to the devlopment of shape holding Hakamas to prevent those awkward, Marilyn Monroe shots of the Sensei...

Talon
11-16-2003, 01:57 AM
The best way too analyze the future is to look at the past. How much has AIKIDO really changed in the last 50 years?

My guess is it will change about the same in the next 50 years.

indomaresa
11-19-2003, 09:55 AM
After coming across multiple threads on ki, I got an idea..

fifty years from now..

what about Ki detection meter? It'll be like an electronic eye patch, which will enable us to see our partner's ki level.

It can be shown in digital numbers.

-my ki is 85, what's yours?-

or

-did you see that shihan? his ki meter jumped to 700 during the embukai-

Thalib
11-19-2003, 01:50 PM
You've been watching too many Dragonball-Z.

fvhale
11-19-2003, 02:44 PM
Please help clueless geezer--

could someone briefly explain to me what is Dragonball-Z? I've seen it mentioned a few times on Aikiweb. Why does it come up in modern discussions of ki? Don't have a clue what it is. I have seen the cute Pokeman characters, but they never seem to get into ki discussions. (p.s. this clueless monastic stopped watching television during the Watergate hearings.)

Thanks!

indomaresa
11-19-2003, 05:42 PM
no problem grandpa :) :)

it's one of those popular futuristic japanese animation where people fight using enourmous ki blasts.

Lot's of reference to Ki shows there, as well as its various amazing manifestations. Flying, teleportation, etc

Howling good fun too...

indomaresa
11-19-2003, 05:43 PM
no problem grandpa ^_^

it's one of those popular futuristic japanese animation where people fight using enourmous ki blasts.

Lot's of reference to Ki shows there, as well as its various amazing manifestations. Flying, teleportation, etc

Howling good fun too...

Lyle Bogin
11-25-2003, 10:57 PM
I hope that aikido will reach it's full potential as a tool for education and communication.

I hope that as the United States government (State level especially) gradually regulates the martial arts all things go smoothly for dedicated aikidoka.

I hope that for every piece of old aikido we lose, we add something new and relevant to our ever changing world.

paw
11-26-2003, 06:06 AM
Excuse me.....
it's one of those popular futuristic japanese animation where people fight using enourmous ki blasts.

Dragonball originally aired in 1997. The series, Dragonball, Dragonball Z, Dragonball GT, span over 100 episodes (http://theotaku.com/dragonball/episodes.shtml) and basically focus on an alien sent to Earth to as a child to conquer the planet. Recently, the stories have been optioned for a live action movie, tenatively scheduled for 2004.

Dragonball has a

huge list of characters (http://theotaku.com/dragonball/characters.shtml) But you can get the general idea by reading about Goku and Vegeta (best redemption ever).

Regards,

Paul

Lyle Bogin
11-26-2003, 10:46 AM
You can purchase the first live action movie at www.taiseng.com ;)

indomaresa
12-04-2003, 11:18 PM
quote: span over 100 episodes and basically focus on an alien sent to Earth to as a child to conquer the planet.

that sounds like a review for a science fiction movie.

Dragonballz is a fantasy futuristic story about fighting, saving the world and (again) totally outrageous fight scenes

quote: Recently, the stories have been optioned for a live action movie, tenatively scheduled for 2004.

Let's hope not, they've already butchered Street Fighter into mincemeat

sanosuke
12-05-2003, 02:13 AM
beware, they already start to use DragonBallZ kind of fighting in Matrix;Revolutions

indomaresa
12-06-2003, 09:49 AM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!