PDA

View Full Version : Aikido and Judo


Please visit our sponsor:
 



Levan
12-12-2000, 11:59 PM
Hi all Aiki population, I miss you all, my country is in trouble and we do not have electricity, that's why I am not so often in Forum.
Now the topic:
I wonder why good aikidokas do not participate in official Judo competitions? By my understanding good Aikido technique will allow anybody to resist and stand the Judo technique which is poorer by actual arsenal used by judokas currently. I like to watch Judo competitions (it is very popular in Georgia - my country) and it seems to me that Aikidokas can have a big influence on present Judo which became poorer by its application during the match. What you think? I wonder to have answers from you.

Levan

crystalwizard
12-13-2000, 01:42 AM
Aikido's not about competition...at least it's not supposed to be.

SeiWhat?!?
12-13-2000, 01:51 AM
Levan wrote:

I wonder why good aikidokas do not participate in official Judo competitions?...

Well, I'm not going to try and speak for anybody else out there, so I'll just give my own humble, little, opinion.

First, I'm not good enough! I'd get mashed into paste if I went up against a competition trained judoka.

Second. Notice I said competition trained. I think that there is a big difference between training for competition, and training for life. There are rules to know and abide by, referees to stop the match, points to earn, and that may narrow ones view of the art, judo, karate, whatever, especially if the student's goal is to win trophies. One may become too focused on winning than on applying the art to life. Then again, I've never trained in any other martial art. I'm not saying that competition has rendered judo useless (I've been turned into a pretzel by a judoka), but I can do without the comps.

Third. One of the reasons I stuck with Aikido is that there are no competitions, with, I think, the exeception of Yoshinkan(actual comp. or just sparring? Is it Yoshinkan?). That means no peer pressure, direct or indirect, to go to a comp. I wouldn't want the name and reputation of my school on my shoulders.

Fourth, this one may get me into trouble. I believe that competition goes against what Aikido is all about. There is very little that you can learn in a comp. that you can't learn at the dojo. If you want to cross train, chances are that there is someone in your dojo that has trained in something else, so you can work with him/her before or after practice, or go learn something else. Better to learn it, than to see it IMO. I've watched competitions and the atmosphere there has always been, my teacher/school/style/technique is better than yours and I'm going to prove it by beating you up. Not much love and harmony there. Purposely putting yourself into harms way for a trophy seems foolish; instead of stepping off the line of force (hitoashiyokete), you're stepping right into it. I try and intergrate my Aikido into daily life, and competitions just don't fit.

Fifth. Saftey. Judoka are used to judo style throws. Aikidoka are used to Aikido style throws. That means everyone has to learn how to safely take ukemi for eachothers art. May as well go out and take up judo.

Last (finally :)) What if you get 2 aikidoka on the mat? I have this image of 2 people just standing there waiting for the other to make a move. Kinda silly actually.

Well, that was my 2 cents. Actually closer to 5. But now I think I can speak for all of us when I say all of our love goes out to you and your country.

ian
12-13-2000, 04:11 AM
Hi Leven,
Judo and Aikido have some philosophical and technical similarities (e.g. kokyu nage), which often makes me feel some association with judokas.

Tomiki aikido is practised as a sport (the attacker scores points by stabbing with a rubber knife). Some techniques were removed from this style as they were too dangerous.

When training in Aikido we necesarily have some form of uke participation (i.e. they attack in a certain way, and generally don't change half way). This is so we can get used to responding to certain attacks in certain ways, and this makes aikido less dangerous. Changing techniques (by uke and nage/tori) mid-way is often only done after a few years of practise because it can be dangerous.

However we are ideally developing the 'form' of aikido through mindfulness during our technique. i.e. in reality we need to respond to our aggressors attack with the most appropriate technique and body movement, rather than a set technique, and be prepared to change this; good technique is no technique.

It does seem strange that we consider aikido to be non-harmful, yet won't do it in competition. However in a real situation this idea of not harming is an ideal.

If you think of kote-gaeshi, this is a very difficult technique to do without harming anyone in reality. Also, aikido does not specifically exclude strikes (I've mentioned in another thread, the unfortunate situation where a senior judoka challenged Ueshiba. Ueshiba struck the judokas hip and broke it).

I have often heard that aikido deals with the 'potential'. This is both the potential to do serious damage by nage in a technique (i.e. the threat of breaking an arm, but not doing it), and also the use of a strike (atemi) which would have the potential to hurt uke, but instead should be at an appropriate speed to instil an uke reaction and thus allows a technique to be achieved. This is why tomiki bouts are necessarily a bit scappy - uke is not reacting to a potentially lethal/damaging blow or technique.

Ueshiba was very specific about Aikido being non-competitive. Some people believe that a martial art becomes weak unless you do it competitively, others believe that if you do it as a sport you forget the potential for dangerous applications, and it therefore loses its potential as a true martial art. I think both are true to some extent, when you see different styles of traditional aikido.

Aikido without mindfulness is a dance, safe competitive aikido is a sport.

Ian

ian
12-13-2000, 04:19 AM
P.S. I'm sorry I didn't reply to your actual question!

I have done some Judo myself, and enjoyed it. But as you must know, certain joint locks and throws are not allowed; which can be very frustrating in both throws and ground work. It is definately useful training in both, but I always consider other martial arts to fit within my aikido framework (i.e. karate strikes are aikido atemis, judo throws are what I do when my leading technique or extension has gone wrong).

Ian

Aikilove
12-13-2000, 09:37 AM
ian wrote:
(I've mentioned in another thread, the unfortunate situation where a senior judoka challenged Ueshiba. Ueshiba struck the judokas hip and broke it).

Hi Ian!
Which thread is that? I would like to read it. Was it by a kick or throw or what that broke the poor jodoka hip ?

Jakob B