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actoman
10-06-2003, 04:21 AM
Hi all, although you all may think I am being silly, I just got done practicing Shihonage throws in class, and I just gotta say,
It has always been my favorite to look at, now that I am actually practicing it, it ROCKS!
What are your favorite moves?

Yann Golanski
10-06-2003, 04:43 AM
Shihonage was always a favorite of mine. I think that tenchinage and iriminage (including the aigamae ate version) are my close seconds.

Ikkio/oshi taoshi is one of those techniques that I just cannot get my head round. I understand how they work but I cannot do them in randori for the life of me. It never seems to work for some reason.

That and last time I was uke for it, I spend two hours doing it and getting my elbow old injury back. No more Aikido for me for two weeks! ARGH!

villrg0a
10-06-2003, 06:43 AM
kokyu nage is my fav, next is nage irimi

mj
10-06-2003, 08:05 AM
Ikkyo, always ikkyo.

Aikilove
10-06-2003, 08:19 AM
I just love doing koshi-nage, I cound practice that all day.

Greg Jennings
10-06-2003, 10:20 AM
I find that a lot of people are over confident in their shihonage. If done well, it's a good technique.

If done not-so-well, it's an invitation to being embarrassed.

Do this sometime:

Have your partner practice shihonage on you slowly. In the middle of the technique, when they are half-way through their pivot, feeeellllll for an opening. If they've given you slack, you can reverse them by pulling down/dropping.

Do it slowly, however, because if they've done the technique well, pulling/dropping accelerates the technique.

Regards,

shihonage
10-06-2003, 02:09 PM
What are your favorite moves?
...

Nick Simpson
10-06-2003, 05:26 PM
Im keeping away from shionage at the minute, after a month off I seem to have gotten into a really bad habit of taking ukes arm outwards as you might do in a real application to break it (Im doing this by accident of course). Got a sickening cracking sound from one of the other students tonight, I was not impressed with my lack of control.

I suppose my favourite technique is ikkyo, it feels so graceful when you get it right, especially in randori.

rachmass
10-06-2003, 05:28 PM
irimi nage!!!!!!!!!

Amassus
10-06-2003, 06:05 PM
Irimi nage from Yokomonuchi is fun, also kaiten nage.

They are all fun in their own way. Depending on what mood I'm in. :confused:

sanosuke
10-06-2003, 08:59 PM
irimi nage and kokyu

Clayton Drescher
10-06-2003, 10:12 PM
just learned some iriminage tricks today that make it much easier and softer, makes it more fun....but I like that I remember how to do shihonage off almost any attack, so its my go-to technique

drDalek
10-07-2003, 05:00 AM
The technique I default to when I start running out of ideas is a Sankyo converted to a throw. Not exactly graceful but I manage to apply it with 70-80% success (where success is defined as Uke going to the ground) which is more than can be said for any of my other techniques.

ian
10-07-2003, 10:58 AM
Shiho-nage used to bee my favourite. I like the way you turn around and so can see 360 degrees. However it is no longer my favourite as I think it can have certain vulnerabilities (have to be careful that it is not easily countered, not easily turned out of, uke can't hit you with other arm during the technique, uke doesn't role out of technique after throw, uke doesn't hit you when you pin them (they are pretty much on their backs, facing you).

Irimi-nage has to be the best technique, followed by the closely aligned tenchi-nage.

Ian

Lan Powers
10-08-2003, 10:17 PM
Few things more satisfying than a hi-fall sumi atoshi...:)

Lan

sanosuke
10-08-2003, 10:55 PM
but do you guys realize that no matter how much techniques we learn and master in aikido, in the end there's only one technique that is really useful and surely effective, that is.......tai sabaki (irimi & tenkan).

Thalib
10-09-2003, 12:14 AM
seiza and rei :)

Although my knee still couldn't take long seiza, I'm still getting used to it.

I'm also still practicing sincerity within my rei.

jk
10-09-2003, 09:29 PM
Since we're drifting off-topic: forty-yard dash.

Joe Jutsu
10-09-2003, 10:13 PM
I like shihonage too. I agree that you have to be careful, because it can be spun out of. Probably not if you are applying the technique perfectly, because a good shihonage is definitely harder to spin out of than a bad one. But someone after class the other day showed me that if uke does spin out, go for another shihonage. Uke is in a much more compromised position this time around, and the fall is harder to take because in my experience at least by this point there is more energy in the technique. But I've really been enjoying "enundo" techniques (sorry my spelling probably sucks).

Joe.

bca333
10-12-2003, 06:35 PM
I used to have favorites. Now I'm just happy with anything I can do successfully with a committed attack. The list keeps getting smaller...Hmmmmmmmmm.

indomaresa
10-30-2003, 10:05 AM
right... sabaki, the ultimate safety technique. Combine it with John's 40 feet dash and there ain't a martial art out there that can take you down.

Ghost Fox
10-30-2003, 03:36 PM
But someone after class the other day showed me that if uke does spin out, go for another shihonage. Uke is in a much more compromised position this time around, and the fall is harder to take because in my experience at least by this point there is more energy in the technique.

Joe.
I usually apply a kotegaeshi technique when uke spins out of a shihonage, as uke generates all the energy for the through by attempting to escape.

JMTC.

WylMorris
10-30-2003, 08:04 PM
Aikiotoshi (spelling?) is good, but my great loves are Kaiten nage (especially Soto Mawari) and kata dore kotegaeshi is my all time favourite.

Apologies for my spelling, if its wrong, which i think it is.

Esteban Martinez
10-30-2003, 08:44 PM
Kotegaeshi, Kokyunage, Iriminage, Sumiotoshi

Pretty much anything with a breakfall.

SmilingNage
11-17-2003, 06:26 PM
Come on it has to be the mother of all mat slamming, fat jigglin throws

KOSHINAGE!!!!

Those throws require a great deal of trust and ability to use. Plus they are just so much fun to take and give.

Shihonage and kotegaeshi have to be the most common techniques not applied correctly that often lead to injuries. I thought my 3rd kyu test would be the death of my wrists and elbows from the 3 shihonage throws and the kotegaeshi on that test.

Nafis Zahir
11-18-2003, 01:23 AM
Shihonage is great. It's devestating when done properly. But my favorite is kotegaishi, followed by irimi nage. After that, it's (sorry if spelling is wrong) udi garame. I just learned how to do shihonage when the kotegaishi doesn't take. There again, devestating!

boni tongson
11-18-2003, 01:49 AM
does anyone like sankyo? i love performing sankyo nage, a hair raising experience for the uke hehe

markwalsh
11-18-2003, 08:04 AM
I've heard that you shouldn't have a favourite technique, and I can see the logic in this, all being related and leading to lopsidedness etc, but hell...shouldn't never could with me!

On the other hand I've also heard it said (Grapevine sensei down the pub said) that O'Sensei's favourite technique was irimi nage, or ikkyo.

I go through phases where I like one technique before I figure out why I'm rubbish at it and move on to a new pet waza. Same with ones I don't like.

Mark

x

Ali B
11-28-2003, 08:46 AM
Ikkyo is always my fav...Closely followed by nikkyo, sankyo, yonkyo

Love and light

Ali

Dardempale73
11-30-2003, 01:54 AM
I'm comfortable doing "kaiten nage", easy to execute..

indomaresa
12-10-2003, 06:54 AM
I thought kaitenage is the world's most complicated move... ever

I like hiji-jime

Jeff Tibbetts
12-10-2003, 01:06 PM
It's been said that one should focus on practising their least favorite technique whenever opportunity arrives. Too much reinforcement of your favorite will weaken you. Eventually, once you've been doing your least favorite for a while it will become your favorite. Over a long enough time, all the techniques form a dynamic love/hate cycle which imprints them stronger in you. This makes a great deal of sense to me, and I've been trying to work on it. It seems to me that I've gone through a period of hate/love with Irimi, Tenchi Nage, and now I'm currently in the hate category with Nikyu, but I'm working on it. Anyone else do this, or remember where it came from?

I cannot remember where I read it, but I know it was in a book :)

Aristeia
12-10-2003, 06:57 PM
I thought kaitenage is the world's most complicated move... ever
Only as Kihon. It's derivatives are amongst the most simple and effective techniques we've got IMHO

Bushi
12-10-2003, 08:40 PM
I think shihonage is probably my best tecnique. It seems to work realy well for short people like me ;)

JasonB
12-11-2003, 09:19 AM
I just learned 6 ways to do Shiho-nage so I'm pretty psyched about that technique right now. It seems like doing it different ways helps you to do each individual version better by illustrating the differances in movement.

Probably the technique that I'm most committed to right now is Irimi-nage because I keep screwing up the ending by rotating my upper torso too soon. I'm hoping that the light bulb comes on soon because I can't figure out why I can't stop making this mistake.

Nick Simpson
12-11-2003, 11:55 AM
Shihonage is a nice technique, but mine sucks :p

I can never seem to control an arkward (the best kind :) ) uke effectively if I do it the traditional way we are supposed to. A more direct variation where I crank on uke's wrist more and force it into their side thereby standing them up on their toes and unbalancing them seems to work much better, it seems to use the pain as a submission, but it's no good for gradings. I suppose I just have to work on my Kuzushi...

Aristeia
12-11-2003, 03:46 PM
Shihonage is a nice technique, but mine sucks :p

I can never seem to control an arkward (the best kind :) ) uke effectively if I do it the traditional way we are supposed to. A more direct variation where I crank on uke's wrist more and force it into their side thereby standing them up on their toes and unbalancing them seems to work much better, it seems to use the pain as a submission, but it's no good for gradings. I suppose I just have to work on my Kuzushi...
By awkward uke, you mean one that is spinning out? Try this, just as you've extended them and are about to pivot (tenkai), tell uke to come around and hit you with the other hand.

contrary to the oft reapeated claim that beginners are good to train with becuase they are natural, I've decided that things like spinning out of shiho nage are often because uke is too passive and not continuing the attack. tell uke to try and hit you as you apply the technique and I think it'll work better.

Bronson
12-12-2003, 01:52 AM
I've decided that things like spinning out of shiho nage are often because uke is too passive and not continuing the attack.
Quite agree.

One thing I've found that helps keep uke from spinning out is to keep their hand at or below the level of the their shoulder. It makes it very difficult for them to get their head under their arm.

Bronson

Kensai
12-13-2003, 03:39 PM
NIKKYO NIKKYO NIKKYO..............

............ HERE COMES THE PAIN!

Plus its really cool if you can do a throw from it to and its a great way to access lots of other techniques, like Ikkyo, Kote gaeshi and shihonage.

MaryKaye
12-13-2003, 06:14 PM
I like kokyunage, especially the ones where "if only you had just let go of me you would have been fine" (at least at slow speeds). A particular current favorite is katate ryote mochi kokyunage enundo, because the way uke suddenly turns around is good for such a startled expression. I love seeing those big round eyes.

My current least favorite is zenpo-nage, because somehow there is nothing more lame than a zenpo-nage that doesn't work. I got thrown a bit too hard by someone else, and asked sensei how to do abreakfall from zenpo-nage; instead she chose to show me how not to allow that to be done to me. All she really ended up showing me was that if a fourth dan resists being thrown by a fifth kyu, the throw is going to be particularly laughable....

Mary Kaye

Nick Simpson
12-14-2003, 06:46 AM
Thanks for the points Michael and Bronson, I'll try it out on monday. I had a pretty good time with Shihonage on friday night, I noticed two beginners doing it without taking uke's balance so that it ended in a stalemate, uke standing up straight and tori trying to muscle them down.

I managed to take both of their balance several times and even if I messed up the shihonage itself, I illustrated how it didnt matter becuase uke was off balance and falling or open to another technique (good way to cover your mistakes eh? ;) ). I also showed them the variation where you crank on ukes wrist more and force their elbow into them, I think I must have been inspired that night :)

The problem though is a young lad whos about 11 or 12, he spins out of shihonage, and obviously I cant crank it onto him like I can put it onto an adult who is of similar size to myself. I illustrated the fact that if he spins out I can choke him from behind or that if I was to do a practical shihonage on him it would break his arm (he seemed to like that, bloodthirsty little git) but he continued to spin until my sensei was forced to try it on him whereby he had to basically kokyunage the kid because he would hurt him if he forced the shihonage. I think we have to teach this kid some more respect...

MaryKaye
12-14-2003, 08:41 AM
Think of it as a real challenge in finding a way to adapt your technique to uke....

We had a Japanese woman student who was cooperative and helpful, but so short and so extremely flexible that a wide variety of moves just didn't work on her. You'd bend her wrist back to an alarming degree, and unless she'd been instructed to go down anyway, she'd just stand there watching you in fascination to see what you'd do next.

Shihonage in particular is great for a shorter person against a taller one, and harder the other way around. She could throw me shihonage with ease and grace, whereas if I started turning with her she'd helpfully follow me, and there was no telling what configuration we'd end up in. The one thing that helped a bit was keeping very close to her, with no slack in the arms--actually bumping her with my shoulder.

Maybe the thing to try with your kid is to alternate the shihonage (where he really does have a natural advantage) with some throw that favors the larger and taller person, like tenchinage....

Mary Kaye

Vincent Munoz
01-05-2004, 12:21 PM
my favorite is sankyo, because from sankyo - it is very easy to divert to any technique. and once you're doing sankyo, u'll have all the control of your uke if you do it right. no one can reverse me if i use sankyo. i think all of you will agree.

in tsuke and shomenuchi attack, my favorite is kokyu nage (180 degress), throwing your uke at your back.

thanks

Vincent Munoz
01-05-2004, 12:38 PM
i noticed that most of you guys are just FINE TUNING the nage thing. DON'T FORGET THAT UKEMI IS AS IMPORTANT AS NAGE, one can never be a good nage if he/she don't fine tune the ukemi. Agree? Everybody can practice any technique with great speed but at the same time, graceful once all are good ukemi.

so practice both. burn a fire of interest.

bong munoz

Gilles D'Hoker
01-25-2004, 11:20 AM
Ikkyo, performed slow or fast. It's the most effective and a begining to other moves... for me, of course :p

morex
01-26-2004, 10:16 AM
Gotta love kote gaeshi!

Amassus
02-11-2004, 08:13 PM
I like how some people mention that a particular move is easier to get other moves from. Aren't we supposed to blend from one technique to another no matter what they may be?

Keep on training!

happysod
02-12-2004, 06:02 AM
Aren't we supposed to blend from one technique to another no matter what they may be? The main blending should be with your partner, so their current position/style of attack should provide you with the most appropriate response. If you decide upon the technique you're going to use in advance, especially in randori, you're not blending.

caveat: unless you're actually specifically practicing one particular technique