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minasaek
12-10-2000, 04:55 PM
i am to aikiweb forums for two weeks so i am new to this .After reading a lot of threads , posts e.t.c. i've realised that most of you behave , react , or even talk about MA as if those were your religion...Without the intention to be bad , i believe that MA were developed to satisfy feelings of ours such us fear, aggresive insticts,and other...
after a lot of years people have managed to transform them into religions , ways of peace ,etc...not seeing their true use...
meaning... developing good health , healthy mind and undouptlly a nice way to express our bad energy working with our body and mind.

Having the best of intension, this was always a question of mine#


sincerely Aleksander...

Simone
12-11-2000, 05:07 AM
But that's what we (at least I) do!

Simone

Nick
12-11-2000, 10:55 AM
I still don't understand your question... if it happens to be "is Aikido a religion?", than I'd point you to aikidofaq.com as they have a more in-depth article about it. I feel Aikido is a adjunction to my choice of faith, not a replacement...

Nick

ian
12-11-2000, 11:07 AM
Yep, I'd agree with both these replies. Aikido has definately altered my philosophy towards life. It has definately influenced my religious beliefs (more through introduction to zen - although aikido isn't necessarily rooted in zen).

Although you presume that martial arts was principally aggressive and then became a spiritual thing, some people would argue the converse. Many aspects of the martial arts derive origianlly from china e.g. Tai Chi Chian. These were thought to have derived as excercises to prevent joints seizing up through long periods of meditation. Any japanese martial art with 'do' automatically has religious conatations ('do' being equivalent to 'tao' or 'the way').

Also you may think or religion in a different way to the way you describe aikido practitioners. Religion is often considered to be a world view which is taken on faith. However, for me at least, it is a world view which is developed based on experience and analysis; and an acceptance that just 'cos we can't explain things in scientific terms doesn't mean they don't exist (such as ki/chi). As the original Buddha (probably)said, the truth can only be found within yourself.

Ian

ian
12-11-2000, 11:12 AM
P.S. I think most aikido people don't get into it for spiritual reasons, and people take it on to different degrees. However Aikido tends to have a strong philosophy of non-violence, acceptance of death (if you've done enough irimi techniques!) and self-mastery (rather than trying to control others through power). I believe all of these eventually become essential in good physical aikido training, and so obviously these philosophies rub off into other aspects of our life.

If you find these ideas disconcerting Alecsander, you don't need to believe 'em!

Ian

emptiness is form
and form is emptiness

(heh, heh, heh)

ian
12-11-2000, 11:15 AM
P.P.S
It is true that there is nothing like a good bit of randori to get rid of aggressive feelings - and nobdoy gets hurt! (usually)

sue i.
12-11-2000, 01:04 PM
As a student in Religious Studies student and a student of Aikido, I find this debate intriguing. I feel that Aikido can fill a spiritual void for some, compliment existing spiritual paths for others and for some people just be a great workout. I think Aikido is brilliant in that respect, it's as pliable as good ukemi. I think many of the students of Aikido are attracted to the seemless synthesis of a spiritual persuit and a physical activity that they can practice everyday. O'Sensei was a very religious man but many of today's martial artists in Aikido are very skilled without having to believe exactly what he believed. I think what you see on these forums are people who love this art and want to share with others all of the benefits of Aikido. For many of us, we see interpersonal relationship benefits, a closer feeling to others and I could go on. Aikido is not a religion from a technical standpoint, although there are Shinto priests that feel Aikido is the best way to teach young people about the Shinto religion. It gets a little complicated but I think the spiritual aspect of Aikido is appealing to many of us. However, what is wonderful about this art, is that if you don't see it or want to intergrate the spritual elements into your own practice you can still be an excellent Aikidoist.

minasaek
12-13-2000, 06:45 PM
Ok perhaps i was misunderstood here...

I am not far from your opinions but i really want to know how all of you can convince me that you believe all that you are saying, although you practice aikido for a little time...(1-7years)

Then isn't it weird that you answer me in a way that someone would believe you are priests..We all live in a bad and ugly world with a lot of violence and anger and fear around us...

All that you can say is that you will follow the path of armony, while not still being able to?

I think that all of you are trying to be peacefull as the way of armony teaches us, before you are capable of it...

Now as far as the religion subject is concerned, maybe i was wrong...

Nice talkin to you

Aleksander

Nick
12-13-2000, 07:23 PM
Who said we were trying to convince you of anything? You asked for our opinions, and we gave it to you. Are our opinions just as valid as anyone else's? Sure. Are they perhaps, as wise or well thought out as someone who's been practicing budo for 30 years? Probably not.

Priests? Heavens no. Perhaps we're different from others in that we try to find peace, rather than look for war. Myself, I try to avoid the ugly and hate-filled part of the world-- life's too short too worry about hate.

Also I believe that anyone who tries as hard as many budoka do to follow the path of harmony are well able to do so, or well on their way to doing so.

Who says being peaceful is wrong? There are people who don't know a back fist from an iriminage and are peaceful people.

I'm sorry if you feel that one opinion is "better" than the other. You may agree with one more, etc., but that doesn't necessairly make it better...

Nick

petra
12-14-2000, 02:22 AM
The great thing of aikido is that everyone can... well, absorb is the word that comes to my mind first, from it the thing he/she feels comfortable with. If you like the philosophy you can try and encompase that in your day to day life. If you just like to work with your body/centre or simply like the extercise that's okay too. Nobody will force you to think or act in a certain way, at least not in the dojo I go to.
From what I read in the threads posted, a lot of people base(d)their decision to start practising aikido as a MA in part on the philosophy it brings with it, which is a excelent reason. However, I started doing aikido for different reasons but since I've been practising I have come to appreciate the philosophy. It is not a religion, but it helps me understand why a technique is done the way it is done, and another nice side-effect is that I have become more relaxed, mentally and physically. This has some great advantages in day to day life, at least for me it has. Aikido has become a way of life for me, although I started out with a different goal, the only thing I wonder about is why nobody warned me that it is such a highly addictive sport ;).
I agree with Ian, most aikido people don't get into it for spiritual reasons, and people take it on to different degrees. And a good randori always makes me feel better and more relaxed. (sorry, haven't figured out the quote things yet).