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Alfonso
09-03-2003, 12:30 PM
How do you think Self Importance is related to Aikido?

What is the role of Ego in Aikido?

Do you distinguish between both?

Dennis Hooker
09-03-2003, 12:52 PM
Which of the following is your idea of ego?

The first two are very necessary in my opinion.

1.The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.

2.In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.

3. A. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit.

B.Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.

Arieru
09-03-2003, 01:14 PM
Which of the following is your idea of ego?

The first two are very necessary in my opinion.

1.The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.

2.In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.

3. A. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit.

B.Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.
i think ego (not an exaggerated sense of self importance) is natural to aikido and everything else in life. for example, let's take "B", appropriate level of pride in oneself can push one to strive to constantly hone their skills in aikido.

Alfonso
09-03-2003, 03:28 PM
Which of the following is your idea of ego?
I think of ego as

2.In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.
however, one of the things I've waffled around is the need to develop a certain measure of attitude, a quality of feeling that tends more to self importance; a type of pride .. hard to describe; a me-ness, that shouts I AM

and yet, It seems to me that this is an undesirable thing because it leads to
A. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit
At other times I've felt that works in technique is the feeling of a lack of

The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves
these feelings/ attitudes have in my mind effect in my performance at a technical level, so i'm not talking in a purely motivationial aspect, but in waza.

does this make any sense at all to you?

antdigoh
09-03-2003, 06:31 PM
As the founder said "Aikido is all I Am"; and that is the very essence of Aikido. 'Ego' is ourselves or one self, and a process of 'self realization' in spiritual aspect of learning Aikido.

opherdonchin
09-03-2003, 10:37 PM
Words are just labels. It's best not to confuse them with the original thoughts and ideas that they label. A label is useful when it illuminates or clarifies or puts into new perspective or connects or otherwise deepens understanding. We are free to adapt our definitions of words (what they label) if we find new definitions that are more useful to us.

Thus, the useful question may not be, "does Ego have a place in Aikido." A more useful question seems to me, "what sort of understanding of Ego would make Ego a useful concept in Aikido."

SeiserL
09-04-2003, 08:50 AM
IMHO, ego has a place in Aikido. It is useful to have an ego, but not overly important. And through training, maybe we will have less of it or at least a better working model.

If by ego you mean the psychological ego identity that we have learned from our parents and society in the process of growing up, then it is useful but not overly imortant because it/ego is more a matter of them, not us, and is not to be take too personally or seriously. Remember though, that because this ego identity is learned, it can be unlearned and relearned in a more effective and efficent manner. But, it is useful to have a label that we can identify with and some mental program into which to incorporate and integrate new learning. Is more like the software program on your computer, not the hardware.

Now if you are talking about the self in a more spirtual basis, then IMHO its of greater importance. You know there always is a part of us that knows the truth and what we need to do, the right thing. Is not the self of the head, but more the self of the heart. Its a very quiet felt knowing, not the big adrenaline head knowing.

IMHO, the subtle training in Aikido just may be a way to make the dinsticion.

ian
09-05-2003, 10:24 AM
Yeh, I think good point raised of what you call ego. I think the common understanding of Buddhism in destroying the ego is often missrepresented as people sometimes believe it requires conformity to the masses, the government or the current social system.

I think ego is good in the sense of understanding who you are and what you believe.

I was having an interesting conversation with someone recently who said that it is more important to win than to find the truth (in terms of arguments).

The importance of sincerity in aikido really underlines the fact that truth is more important than ego and understanding is more important than success. Face it, we will all die, but understanding is the stuff that gives value to our life as humans. Also, I think it is important to investigate what Ueshiba meant when he said 'I am the universe'.

Ian

ian
09-05-2003, 10:32 AM
P.S. the difficulty in the concept of self can also be equated with difficulty in the definitions of words. Is our concept of self based on what we have done? What we are at this present moment is so ephemeral it is difficult to define. 'Self' is given a concept so that we can categorise things for easier understanding, but this puts a false limit on what is really the 'me' that operates.

As humans, although we are conditioned by our repeated actions (i.e. we tend to do what we are used to doing) we have the ability to change our behaviour based on reflection. (Which is the whole point of the use of such words as 'karma').

Sorry... I've waffled on so much now I've lost myself.

Ian

Arieru
09-05-2003, 10:59 AM
Which of the following is your idea of ego?

2.In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.
please correct me if i am wrong, but wasnt this idea put forth by sigmund freud (ego/superego/id)? isnt this the same guy who prescribed coccaine to kids?