PDA

View Full Version : What level do you start wearing Hakama?


Please visit our sponsor:
 

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!


villrg0a
07-20-2003, 09:19 PM
At our dojo, yellow belts (3rd kyu) already wears Hakama. Just curious....

YEME
07-20-2003, 10:54 PM
At our dojo its shodan.

but i've seen some where they promote wearing them from day one.

Hanna B
07-20-2003, 11:24 PM
Third kyu (white belt until shodan).

Kevin Wilbanks
07-20-2003, 11:27 PM
Check the archives. This discussion has been done many times. In general, the whole idea of associating the hakama with any rank is a relatively new invention, nothing O'Sensei prescribed, and frankly just plain silly. Remember the old parable of the Sneetches by Dr. Seuss?

http://www.thericehouse.net/twiki/bin/view/Main/DrSeussTheSneetches

villrg0a
07-21-2003, 12:06 AM
okidoki, me now checking for old threads related to this inquiry. thanks!

C. Emerson
07-21-2003, 12:52 AM
Ask Ted, he'll recommend a place near your residence, where you can go and ask the same question.

-Chad

Dave Miller
07-21-2003, 08:33 AM
I think that some styles, particularly the Tomiki-ryu styles, don't wear hakama at all.

Carl Simard
07-21-2003, 10:47 AM
3rd kyu for us. But there's no obligation to wear one.

Fausto
07-21-2003, 12:11 PM
Well from what i know it depends on the dojo for example in some dojos you can wear a hakama since the first class in others form 3°Kyu (always and in others just in your own dojo not at seminars), 2°kyu (always also at seminars) and some other untill shodan.

It really depends on the style you are doing.

villrg0a
07-21-2003, 08:58 PM
Thank you all for you kind response(s).

Bronson
07-21-2003, 11:11 PM
I haven't seen anyone post anything similar to ours so I'll put it out there.

To start wearing a hakama in our dojo you must be at least a nikyu and be teaching in some way, either as an assitant in a class or teaching a class of your own.

Bronson

villrg0a
07-21-2003, 11:36 PM
I haven't seen anyone post anything similar to ours so I'll put it out there.

To start wearing a hakama in our dojo you must be at least a nikyu and be teaching in some way, either as an assitant in a class or teaching a class of your own.

Bronson
Bronson

Same thing in our dojo, 3rd Kyu can wear hakama and be by the sensei's side during bowing, etc - thus the start of teaching OJT

Kensai
07-22-2003, 06:08 AM
For us, the ladies wear them from day one, the lads start wearing them at 1st Dan.

Dennis Hooker
07-22-2003, 06:51 AM
When?

Well if you are in a dojo where they don't wear gi pants then you better start at day one. Other wise start as early as you can because the damn things are hard to learn to move in with out breaking a toe or pulling a hamstring.

Personally I hate gi pants especially when I am doing iaijutsu. Also in Aikido when doing shikko. I find biking shorts to be the best so far. Nothing under it would be great, but I would get taken away.

Anders Bjonback
07-22-2003, 03:47 PM
I don't know what the standard in my dojo is... but I guess here you can start wearing one after your sixth kyu test, but it can also wait--I've seen people who are much more experienced than me not wearing them. It's a symbol of one's dedication to the art. I got mine just before my sixth kyu test.

the slayer
07-29-2003, 07:13 AM
Hi, in our dojo the ladys can where them after they pass there 6th kyu.the men have to wait till their dan grade as i think in past years the gi used to be underwear so thats why the ladys can where them so they can cover there (underwear).and in our dojo it is white belt all the way up to 1st kyu then black belt at dan.

PeterR
07-29-2003, 07:14 AM
Don't wear them - ever.

Kevin Wilbanks
07-29-2003, 07:54 AM
I think a very important and oft-overlooked reason that everyone should wear hakama is so that we don't have to look at other people's butt-sweat.

Goye
07-29-2003, 08:24 AM
Don't wear them - ever.

Hi Peter,... why?:freaky:

I use it since nikyu and have found good things of wearing it.

formerjarhead
07-29-2003, 09:04 AM
Women from 2Kyu, brown belt and men from Shodan. As for under garments, we always wear a gi.

PeterR
07-29-2003, 09:15 AM
Hi Peter,... why?:freaky:

I use it since nikyu and have found good things of wearing it.
I answered the question in the poll about injuries and hakama. I am sure the are other reasons people in Shodokan dojos normally don't. From what I understand Yoshinkan people also normally don't even though they don't do the same sort of randori. Of course the real reason may be that members of the two above groups don't have sweaty-butts (as per Kevin's post).

Personally speaking when I do wear one (linked to my time training in Aikikia dojos) I found them restrictive and cumbersom. I thought I looked pretty good in the thing but fashion is not a reason. Well the Shodokan fashion is not to wear them so I guess it is a reason.

Kevin Wilbanks
07-29-2003, 09:39 AM
Personally speaking when I do wear one (linked to my time training in Aikikia dojos) I found them restrictive and cumbersom. I thought I looked pretty good in the thing but fashion is not a reason. Well the Shodokan fashion is not to wear them so I guess it is a reason.
I think many consider wearing the hakama an important part of repsecting and continuing the tradition - like bowing procedures. I think you could say the same about the gi itself. I think traditional aesthetics are an important part of the art. Reducing this to "fashion" seems a bit crude.

If you're going to start tossing out everything you find inconvenient or impractical, the next thing you know Aikido will be like MMA, where it's basically just a bunch of guys in threadbare t-shirts and sweatpants training in a place that looks like an old garage.

However, if we were going that way, from a comfort/practicality standpoint, I'd say the best-feeling attire I've worn is a soft, thin gi with the side-ties on the top tied and no belt - vastly more comfortable and relaxed-feeling than being strapped into a hakama and obi.

PeterR
07-29-2003, 11:10 AM
I think many consider wearing the hakama an important part of repsecting and continuing the tradition - like bowing procedures. I think you could say the same about the gi itself. I think traditional aesthetics are an important part of the art. Reducing this to "fashion" seems a bit crude.

If you're going to start tossing out everything you find inconvenient or impractical, the next thing you know Aikido will be like MMA, where it's basically just a bunch of guys in threadbare t-shirts and sweatpants training in a place that looks like an old garage.
Um Kevin - the founders of the two groups I mentioned were early uchideshi of the founder. I didn't toss anything and I suspect both Kenji Tomiki and Gozo Shioda are far more qualified to comment on history and tradition of Aikido than you or I. The choice of daily practice wear goes back to them. I've never seen a member of a Japanese Aikido dojo blink over the fact that I didn't wear a hakama. Judo guys don't, karate guys don't, several Koryu that I've seen don't - other groups do. It really is a matter of choice and fashion.

The hakama may be an important part of the Aikido you practice however in Shodokan it is theorectically to be used only in the most formal of occasions. I would say that even in Aikikai groups the majority of current practioners don't wear the hakama. It can't be all that important.

Kevin Wilbanks
07-29-2003, 01:57 PM
The attempted argument citing that some branches or groups do not wear the hakama is specious. Some religions incorporate formal prayer rituals and some do not. It doesn't follow that prayer rituals are therefore not an important part of adherence to religious tradition to those who adhere to them, or that the practice is a matter of fashion.

To me, "fashion" connotes an entirely different sort of dynamic: transient, superficial, maybe even somewhat whimsical, and something that is done to garner attention or approval from peers/onlookers. 'Choice' certainly isn't applicable - at least not on an individual level. In most dojo I've run across, wearing a hakama or not is a matter of following the rules and doing things the way your teacher does them. The only element in which there is much of a choice or fashion decision is in whether to get a blue or black one, and whether to get a light or heavy fabric.

kironin
07-29-2003, 03:26 PM
I've never seen a member of a Japanese Aikido dojo blink over the fact that I didn't wear a hakama. Judo guys don't, karate guys don't, several Koryu that I've seen don't - other groups do. It really is a matter of choice and fashion.
Wearing a hakama really does help secure my saya and making drawing and putting away my sword more controlled and therefore increases safety. So in that case, I consider it a necessary part of my practice outfit for iaido.

It also covers up whatever shorts or colorfully unfashionable gym pants I am wearing underneath. And that like Dennis says can be considered a benefit for my partners. :)

Craig

PeterR
07-30-2003, 09:58 AM
It's a cloathing item - there is no religious connection.

Shodokan does't wear them for practical considerations and I have yet to hear of a practical reason for wearing them in any other Aikido dojo (Craig makes a point for iaido).

Therefore the reason is fashion - that doesn't mean it needs to get tossed. It also doesn't mean that those that choose to do so are flying in the face of tradition and tossing all that is sacred in Aikido out the window which you seem to suggest. Generally when I go to Aikikai dojos I wear one because that's what they do there - when in Rome and all that.

Chuch the Thesaurus - I'm on vacation and can't handle the big words.

Kevin Wilbanks
07-30-2003, 11:13 AM
Okay, the analogy to religious rituals was an ANALOGY. In an analogy, some things are the same and some things are different. If done correctly, the underlying logical structure is the same, yet the difference introduced by the analogous example is meant to illustrate the flaw in the logic of the initial argument.

In this case, the purpose of the religious analogy was not to imply that hakamas have religious significance. The purpose was to illustrate that what significance hakamas have to others in their practice of Aikido is not for you to decide - it's a subjective matter. You can look down on people who view the hakama as an important part of observing their Aikido traditions or think it's silly, but you can't decide what it means for them. It's like disagreeing with someone when they tell you their favorite color. It just doesn't work that way.

You just trotted out another irrelevant logical fallacy with the implied dichotomy: 'either wearing a hakama is practical or it is fashion'. I have already explained at length at least one other possible value in them: respect and observance of tradition. Therefore, this is a false dichotomy.

I don't know if you intended insult with that Thesaurus comment, but FYI I haven't cracked one in years. Given the quality of thought exhibited by your posts here, I wouldn't think you would want to open that can of worms.

PeterR
07-30-2003, 11:57 AM
Kevin;

Where did I condem anyone for wearing a hakama. I gave my reasons for not finding it necessary for my Aikido and made it pretty clear that under certain circumstance you will find me in one.

Historically the hakama came into common use as a fashion - maybe someone could enlighten us as to when that was but I don't think it was that long ago. Some fashions persist, some are no more than passing fads. The hakama may or may not pass out of fashion with respect to Aikido - there are several examples within the Aikido world where it already has without (as you've implied) any loss of aesthetic or tradition. Granted you did say "many see".

There was nothing in what I said that implied an either/or relation to practicallity and fashion. Some fashions are more practical than others, some practical wear is very unfashionable.

The quality of my posts - what can I say - I do my best.

daiwa
08-04-2003, 12:52 PM
In my dojo you can wear the hakama as soon as you can buy one.

I think that start wearing the hakama is up to each club. Because almost occidental people think that the hakama is a prize we get because of the technic skills.

The hakama is only a part of the Aikido dress and has nothing to do with the skill of the technics in testing situations. :cool:

JimAde
08-05-2003, 07:25 AM
The hakama is only a part of the Aikido dress and has nothing to do with the skill of the technics in testing situations. :cool:
True, Carlos. But, and this is the thing for me, it just looks so damn cool! :D

Harms
08-05-2003, 08:05 AM
My dojo wear hakkama from 3 kyu. Think that is true for most aikido dojos in Sweden. Part of the reason that we wait that long is to make it easier for the teachers to correct leg posture.

People have said that there is no real advantages with wearing hakkama but I find that untrue (in my case at least). I feel more stable with a hakkama and my falls feels softer. Might just be my imagination but that doesn't make any real differens :), if I belive that wearing one makes my aikido better then it probably does ;)

happysod
08-05-2003, 08:11 AM
Shodan, and then only if the great bossman insists, otherwise personal choice. Exception to this rule is working with a katana - all grades asked to use it for this one.

Hakama - actually a construct of two words

Hak - shortened form of Hack: english slang meaning to foul or deliberately entangle

amam: early summarian word meaning either warrior in womens clothing, bandy legged fool or fashion fiend

Mike Higgins
08-05-2003, 03:58 PM
Just to add my moneys worth on this topic, we are invited to wear hakama shortly after passing our 1st grading (10th kyu),this is not a requirement and we are not obliged to wear them,most of us do,some wait a while and one or two dont bother at all.We have a nidan guy who trains with us whos aikido background is from the tomiki school,he usually wears them but not all the time,sadly we havn't seen him for 6 weeks as he fell foul of the often underated "hakamanage" and tore his little toe right out of the joint it used to be attatched to!!! We hope to see him back soon :-)