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C. Emerson
07-15-2003, 10:43 AM
For the Aikido experts out there, can you explain what O'sensei ment when he was talked about being centered with Ki flowing while doing techniques. I believe he was in a paticular frame of mind also? No anger or expectation of an outcome.

And do you practice those concepts.

-Chad evileyes

antdigoh
07-15-2003, 04:55 PM
you are somewhat in a meditative trance, being aware of your surroundings, relaxed and extending your five senses. Your movement should colaborate/coordinate with your breathing so as to let the ki flowing. Though physically aware/presence your're mind is somewhat tune-in a different frequency. The so called subconscious is working here or calling the shots it's more than instinct if practice regularly.

Lee Swerdloff
07-15-2003, 09:11 PM
This is somthing I've been thinking about recently. I believe that he means to focus your mind on your center - your hara. Then it is easier to remain relaxed and alert, and extend ki. Read Koichi Tohei , Ki in Daily life

Alfonso
07-16-2003, 04:48 PM
how about balanced and relaxed while doing technique?

DaveForis
07-19-2003, 06:46 PM
I'm not a master, but here's my perspective...

Hmm. I personally think the "meditative state" is right on with your conscious mind relaxed and your bodymind/subconscious doing the movement. I think balanced and relaxed is another big one.

Chi Kung practitioners (the people who study and learn to generate and work with Ki--This is a 2500+ year-old practice, by the way) universally state that relaxation is key as tension in the muscles inhibits Ki flow. A relaxed mind is important also because once there's mental "tension" like negative emotional states (anger) or having your thoughts tightly focused on something (like thinking about the outcome or focusing your attention on a specific body part) that focuses energy wherever the thought is focused. Needless to say, when your mind, like your body, is rigid, there ain't no way ya can flow.

If ya don't/can't believe in Ki as energy (which is where I've come from in my studies) then you can look at it from a psychological angle and start thinking about how mental states affect your technique, and how your body language affects your partner.

As for practicing it... Isn't that what we're doing when we're practicing technique? Physically we try to relax into the technique, and when we practice enough, we don't feel the need to think about how to DO the technique after a while, and if we're happy, relaxed and confident in ourselves because we're training with trusted friends... There ya go, though meditation, I'm sure, plays a really big part too, if only for training your mind and emotional states.

tedehara
07-20-2003, 12:29 PM
For the Aikido experts out there, can you explain what O'sensei ment when he was talked about being centered with Ki flowing while doing techniques. I believe he was in a paticular frame of mind also? No anger or expectation of an outcome.

And do you practice those concepts.

-Chad evileyesWhy don't you walk over to Denver Ki-Aikido (http://www.kiaikidocolorado.org/chandler.html) at 2129-B S. Sheridan Blvd., Denver, in the East-West Karate dojo, near the southwest corner of Sheridan and Evans; turn in past Rosemary's Cafe and ask them.

Or is this answer too simple?

:blush:

C. Emerson
07-21-2003, 01:50 AM
Then I guess there would be no need for a message board Ted. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

-Chad

bob_stra
07-21-2003, 02:47 AM
Chad

FYI, Dr Robert Nideffer wrote a book on just this very topic, from a western scientific point of view. The book is called "Athlete's Guide to Mental Training" and has generalized (as well as aikido specfic) sections.

Here's an online collection of some of his other work -

http://www.enhanced-performance.com/nideffer/articles/articles.html

C. Emerson
07-21-2003, 10:55 AM
I am interested in comparing the differences from Hapkido and Aikido while executing the techniques.

Hapkido uses live hand / ki finger while executing techniques. I was just wondering if Aikido had a similar philosophy on direction of Ki.

-Chad

Bronson
07-21-2003, 11:38 AM
Hapkido uses live hand / ki finger while executing techniques. I was just wondering if Aikido had a similar philosophy on direction of Ki.

Hmmm, don't know. Could you explain "live hand/ki finger" a little?

Thanks,

Bronson

C. Emerson
07-21-2003, 10:35 PM
In Hapkido it is traditional to point the index finger / directing ki, when you are executing a joint lock.

-Chad

Bronson
07-22-2003, 12:05 AM
In Hapkido it is traditional to point the index finger / directing ki, when you are executing a joint lock.

That's what I thought but I wanted to double check with you before saying anything about it.

In our dojo we will especially have newer people do this so they can see as well as feel the direction they should be focusing. We'll often tell people to point (and look) where they're going. After someone is past the newbie stage it's more about keeping that feeling of following the fingers without actually having to point all the time...unless of course you want to then it's perfectly ok :p

Bronson

PhilJ
07-22-2003, 12:26 AM
I went to a Toyama Ryu (sword work) seminar a while back. When I grabbed my bokken, with my fingers pointing out, the very nice and jovial instructor smiled at me and asked, "Do you practice aikido by any chance?" :)

I had stopped with the fingers myself, but hey, old habits. :)

*Phil

C. Emerson
07-22-2003, 11:01 AM
So do some school's in Aikido practise pointing the finger or do all school's?

antdigoh
07-22-2003, 12:24 PM
actually it's all in the mind or will, pointing your finger without willing is useles. Though energy will flow but the the principle is energy follows thought...

bob_stra
07-23-2003, 07:00 AM
So do some school's in Aikido practice pointing the finger or do all school's?
Honestly, there are just too many factors to able to answer that adequately. Though some styles of Aikido seem quite codified, you can't discount dojo to dojo variation within that group.

I get the feeling that it on certain techniques, yeah, we all like to "point the finger." Though this may simply be due to unconscious preference for mechanical efficiency. For example, sankyo.

There's another one from a front grab, where your wrap you hand around their fingers, make a pistol and point your index finger into their wrist whilst moving away. (What the hell is that one called?)

Is it a big hapkido thing? How does it affect your control / transport techniques or do you folks prefer them down and out?

PS: My word processor knows *exactly* how to spell sankyo, irimi nage and aikido right out of the box. God bless PolyEdit ;-)

C. Emerson
07-23-2003, 10:21 AM
It is traditional, but to be honest I don't use it much. And the reason being that, I feel it is more of a liability, getting broken, bitten, grabbed on to or getting caught up in the Gi. As we all intergrate different MA into our training, the general feeling is the same everywhere, don't leave anything hanging out, whether thats a leg arm or finger. I have been on the receiving end of someone grabbing my finger and also in grappling I've had someone pry my finger off of my hold, and then really do a number on my finger. It hurts.

-Chad

Lyle Bogin
07-23-2003, 12:41 PM
I sometimes get the feeling the pointed index finger is more quirk than technique. Still, it seems to be a sensible habit considering yonkyo. The pointed finger moves out of the way of the bone just beneath it.

For visualizing and extending ki, the pinky works better for me. But I dunno, it seems people can use their index finger and not tense up, even if I can't.

Eric Joyce
07-23-2003, 03:48 PM
Not to offend anyone here (although this will) there is no Ki. I believe its about being centered correctly. I don't think there is this "magical energy" that flows through the techniques. Its a matter of body mechanics: being centered, blending, breathing, relax/suppleness and body positioning.

Bronson
07-25-2003, 12:16 AM
Its a matter of body mechanics: being centered, blending, breathing, relax/suppleness and body positioning.

Agree completely. I would also add focus, intent, and awareness (and I'm sure some others that I can't think of right now:) ). We use a word in our dojo that encompasses all that stuff....ki ;)

Bronson