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Michael Neal
05-14-2003, 12:12 PM
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18885

This thread has lots of downloads that show some pretty brutal bareknuckle fights. I think it is very interesting and challenging try to figure how you could use Aikido against this type of fighter.

paw
05-14-2003, 12:19 PM
Thai boxing has always struck me as tremendously brutal. I am continually amazed at the blows these fighters can take.

Regards,

Paul

George S. Ledyard
05-14-2003, 03:14 PM
Thai boxing has always struck me as tremendously brutal. I am continually amazed at the blows these fighters can take.

Regards,

Paul
Actually, these guys take an unhealthy amount of impact. They tend not to live very long because of the damage. It is not unusual for them to die in their forties.

paw
05-14-2003, 03:42 PM
Actually, these guys take an unhealthy amount of impact. They tend not to live very long because of the damage. It is not unusual for them to die in their forties.

I didn't express myself well. Let me try again.

It's amazing to me the sheer number (and force) of the kicks, punches, knees and elbows they withstand without being KO'ed (or maybe before they are KO'ed would be more accurate). I'm well aware of the damage they take during the life of their professional career and the impact it has on their health.

Regards,

Paul

Michael Neal
05-14-2003, 04:01 PM
Actually, these guys take an unhealthy amount of impact. They tend not to live very long because of the damage. It is not unusual for them to die in their forties.
It would not suprise me if they did not live long, there must be alot of organ damage. It really makes me feel like a wimp when compared to the superficial bruises, scrapes, and strains I get in Aikido practice.

Joe Jutsu
05-14-2003, 04:11 PM
I just watched a few of the bouts, and I have to say that these guys look pretty wild. Even the pro-level guys, while granted their kicks and punches must be pretty damn forceful, seem to "give their center up" pretty regularly. I would hypothesize that an experienced aikidoka, especially one who has some experience cross-training, would fair pretty well against this type of fighter. I mean these guys walk into each other's front kicks and punches. OUCH!! An aikidoka's strenght here seems to be not playing their game. And if you are not trying to knock them out I see alot of room for aiki techniques. But in terms of a competition, the aikidoka would no doubt be penalized for keeping ma ai, as it might be looked at as running away. But thanks for the link Michael, it definitely is some food for thought.

:ki:

Michael Neal
05-14-2003, 04:34 PM
I am in pain just watching that stuff, did you see that guy get kicked full force in the nads?

Kevin Wilbanks
05-14-2003, 08:21 PM
Not that I wouldn't get creamed by most any well-trained MT fighter, but it looks like it has a lot of drawbacks as a self-defense style. The kicks are powerful, but very big with lots of telegraph. The staple 'aligator tail' kick also has the problem of putting one into a percariously balanced spin if missed, exposing the back. In fact, in most of the kicks they throw their whole body into it and seem to rely on impact with the opponent to stop the motion and allow them to fall back down into both feet. Also, flailing closed fists that aren't protected by wraps and gloves equal lots of little broken bones and torn connective tissue in the hands.

Abasan
05-14-2003, 09:37 PM
Thailand and Burma (Myanmar) are just north of my country. Some of my school friends tried to train under the thai boxing and burmese (i forgot the name, sorry) but couldn't. At best, they were given the watered down version.

The thing is, what you were seeing are prize fighters who had trained in the art since they were 6-7 years old. Once, my friend at the time, 17-18 had a run in with an 8 year old who was training in thai kick boxing. Granted the 8 year old was tiny and had lousy reach. But amazing speed and strength!

Their body can take such powerful blows (including their fists without protection) because of a special series of conditioning training. This includes all exposed limbs such as shins and forearms, fists, feet etc. Their stomach or torso muscles are amazing. Hard as rock. Before and after every fight/training session they are also given a special massage by the master with special oils. I don't know what it does, but its suppose to reduce the pain and toughen the body up.

As with all entertainment, there is some show boating going on during fights. The contestants must always show that they are not afraid and that every round they are winning. That's why they 'walk' into attacks. Some would also say that that is a valid defense since they try to advance into an attack before it reaches its apex of speed and power.

This is an art which produces something akin to fighting cocks or bulls. I don't think any normal person would want to train in this, not in a professional capacity anyway.

Ta Kung
05-15-2003, 05:17 AM
I just don't get that excited by two men kicking, punching and elbowing each other as hard as they can, until the other one is so messed up he can't stand up on his own.

/Patrik

bob_stra
05-15-2003, 06:57 AM
I just don't get that excited by two men kicking, punching and elbowing each other as hard as they can, until the other one is so messed up he can't stand up on his own.

/Patrik
Give that man a testosterone injection STAT!

;-)

W^2
05-15-2003, 11:54 AM
I've been studying Muay Thai - as taught by Ajarn Surachai "Chai" Sirisute - for 7 1/2 months now, and what is taught and practiced in countries other than Thailand is somewhat different - it isn't an all out brawl. It is important to make the distinction between human cockfighting (as it is in Thailand) and Muay Thai as it is practiced as a ring sport - K1 comes to mind here, in particular, Ernesto Hoost. Another important distinction is that Ling Lom and Lerd Rit (the Martial Art & Military style) and Muay Thai (the ring sport) are also quite different, obviously.

You will never see Ajarn Chai losing his center or giving you his balance, in fact, he's so good at reading an opponent that he will change his maai before a technique can be performed against him - then it's lights out. So don't kid yourselves about Muay Thai my friends...

Here's a link to video of match between a TKD "Champion" and an amatuer Dutch Thai Boxer...

http://www.freewebz.com/noholdsbarredtv/mt-tkd.WMV

Ciao,

Ward

Michael Neal
05-15-2003, 12:25 PM
So don't kid yourselves about Muay Thai my friends...
I am certainly not kidding myself, I know I would get beat up if I faced one of these guys in a fight.

W^2
05-15-2003, 12:45 PM
As O'sensei said, and I paraphrase, '...don't focus on your opponent at all, but draw them into your sphere of strength...'.

Aikido maai is different than Muay Thai maai, and there's the rub - draw a Muay Thai Practioner out of their sphere of strength and their strength will dissipate.

-Ward

Caleb Hattingh
05-15-2003, 01:10 PM
Muay Thai fighters would be bad enough to go up against, but I reckon I would like to face a boxer the least out of any martial arts style. Boxer's tend to leave very few openings, and can punch very fast and very hard, without losing their balance too much - real tough to do a lot with that... They also tend to be super-fit which is never a bad thing.

PhilDunlap
06-10-2003, 03:45 PM
The site the videos are on is mine and I have posted the links in the open discussion forum. I would like to address a couple things here while the careers tend to be over before a Fighter is 30 the fighters tend to live very long and healthy lives.

sanosuke
06-10-2003, 07:36 PM
I've heard some rumors and stories about an aikido shihan in Thailand who had been tested by a local Muay Thai fighter. In the end the shihan won and the fighter became his student and now hold a rank in aikikai Thailand.

Anyone of you heard or know this stories? Is this true or not?

Grappler
06-11-2003, 10:28 AM
I didn't express myself well. Let me try again.

It's amazing to me the sheer number (and force) of the kicks, punches, knees and elbows they withstand without being KO'ed (or maybe before they are KO'ed would be more accurate). I'm well aware of the damage they take during the life of their professional career and the impact it has on their health.

Regards,

Paul
The ones that cant take a punch usually dont continue training, so you dont see them. The elite fighters that make it into the videotapes are the best, hardest mofos with rock hard chins and disregard for pain. You can train to ignore pain, but a hard chin is something you are born with. As they say, you cant put muscles on a jaw :) Some fighters are just born hard, you hit them square with all you got and they recover like nothing happened :eek: others, you just punch them once and they hit the floor like a potato sack :confused: