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Cyrijl
05-09-2003, 10:44 AM
Would any of you accept a challenge made to you from someone of a different martial art? I mean in a clean environment (a dojo or ring), and not done out of malice. I mean the person challenging you isn't grunting, but polite---not for reputation's sake.

btw, i am not challenging anyone here. I am just curious about the people in aikido.

<<<and if you say no, please do not give me a long answer about honor and how this is wrong and X,Y,Z.>>>

paw
05-09-2003, 10:47 AM
Would any of you accept a challenge made to you from someone of a different martial art?

Sure.

LukeTBrown
05-09-2003, 10:53 AM
No

Mom taught me better than to fight needlessly.

opherdonchin
05-09-2003, 11:50 AM
I try to do things if they sound like fun and not to do them if they don't sound like fun. Thus, a lot would depend on who issued the challenge and how much I liked them, enjoyed their company, and trusted them.

I think it'd be pretty important to me to have a clear sense of what I hoped to learn from this and what my goals were.

opherdonchin
05-09-2003, 12:00 PM
I try to do things if they sound like fun and not to do them if they don't sound like fun. Thus, a lot would depend on who issued the challenge and how much I liked them, enjoyed their company, and trusted them.

I think it'd be pretty important to me to have a clear sense of what I hoped to learn from this and what my goals were.

siwilson
05-09-2003, 12:15 PM
That would depend on who issued the challenge and why.

If they could not receive technique then no, as the intesity of the attack sets the intensity of the response. I know I can take a punch, but not everyone can take landing on their head!

;)

Russ Qureshi
05-09-2003, 12:52 PM
If the challenge was a "dojo busting" thing, then I might consider myself obligated to defend the integrity of the dojo. Barring the success of verbal deescalation. Bowing to the challengers ego etc. having no effect. If the challenger had the intent to harm my dojo mates then I wouldn't hesitate and I would not be nice about it. If the challenge was a "lets see" kind of thing then,no, never. I'm pretty secure about what my aikido can do and how it can be applied. I don't train to fight so there would be no need to "step into the ring".

Cheers,

Russ

Peter Klein
05-09-2003, 12:55 PM
depends on the challenger. if it would be a funny kinda guy and we would have some fun on the mat no problem.

MikeE
05-09-2003, 01:28 PM
I completely agree with Russ. In fact, I have done this on several occasions with people coming in to test me. I have actually gotten a couple really dedicated and Aiki students out of the deal, once they had a small attitude adjustment.

You don't necessarily have to tussle with them to resolve the situation, I just try to draw them into my rhythm and handle it there. It's all about range of effectiveness.

kung fu hamster
05-09-2003, 01:32 PM
Accept a challenge from someone else? Heck, I can't even fend off the guys in my own dojo...

shihonage
05-09-2003, 02:07 PM
I will without hesitation accept a challenge from someone studying ... Tai Chi, Yoga, or perhaps chess.

On second thought, count me out of the chess challenge.

Too dangerous.

erikmenzel
05-09-2003, 03:00 PM
[BAD TASTE ON]

Yep chess is very dangerous and full of sexual haresment:

King takes queen :D

Or real sodomy:

King takes bishop

Or real life religion:

Bishop takes bishop

[BAD TASTE OFF]

kung fu hamster
05-09-2003, 03:13 PM
You didn't mention King takes Horse...

:D

DaveO
05-09-2003, 03:18 PM
I certainly would; if a challenge is made with honorable intentions (i.e. for curiosity; friendly competition, the desire to test onesself), then just because it's a 'fight' does not make it a negative thing - rather, a positive chance for learning and exploration. Under those circumstances; if someone were to ask me for such a bout; I personally would be honoured to accept.

Dave

Patrick
05-09-2003, 03:23 PM
I'd do it. Might lose but I'd do it.

Jeff R.
05-09-2003, 03:31 PM
Absolutely. I get to learn something either way.

Kensai
05-09-2003, 03:55 PM
I dont think I would, as much as I would like to. I know that Sensei would be disappointed in me if I did so. But, I am all for getting on the mat with other systems and trying stuff out.

JW
05-09-2003, 07:32 PM
I would very much be interested in an "open practice" or "martial art experimentation session" (provided they were safe).

..

Why does it have to be a "challenge?"
--JW

sanosuke
05-09-2003, 08:39 PM
...bring it on...

jk
05-09-2003, 09:09 PM
Challenges? I accept, but only if they buy the beer afterwards.

BTW, Horse takes Queen is kinda bad, too... :D

erikmenzel
05-10-2003, 02:05 AM
Yep Horse, but being non-native english speaker I always though the horse shaped chess piece to be called a knight (who can do lots of nasty stuff also of course :D )

bob_stra
05-10-2003, 07:09 AM
Would any of you accept a challenge made to you from someone of a different martial art?
Sure thing. If we're not out to kill each other, maybe we could both learn sumthin'

Yeah, that'd be cool ;-)

Joseph Huebner
05-11-2003, 07:33 AM
Sure! I'd challenge anyone... After I am finished challenging myself (Which should take, oh, 150 more years).

Joseph Huebner

Sven Groot
05-11-2003, 08:04 AM
On second thought, count me out of the chess challenge.

Too dangerous.
I agree! Chesspieces can be effective weapons. Especially if you have an expensive set, since the pieces would be heavy. :D

Not to mention I once got electrocuted by an electronic chess game... :dead:

Cyrijl
05-12-2003, 06:04 AM
thank you for all of your great posts...i meant challenge as in something friendly, not as some ego driven challenge.

having experienced a few martial arts, (aikido on of them), i feel as though one could greatly improve by seeing 'the other side' of an engagement in a safe environment.

Grappler
05-12-2003, 10:41 PM
I spar with people from different styles all the time. Kickboxers, judokas, wrestlers, aikidokas. There is only one way to become a good fighter, and thats long hours on the mat fighting, against the widest variety of opponents you can get...

justinm
05-13-2003, 04:58 AM
As so many people would be interested to accept a challenge from another martial artist under friendly terms, why not seek them out and challenge others? Or do you?

Cyrijl
05-14-2003, 08:22 AM
here where i am there are mostly TKD and karate schools, which as new i am to the game, i would probably roll over most of them.

The Muay Thai school i know of ir rather far away. I was thinking over the summer i might go for a month or so and learn some thai kicks...and the aikido school i went to doesn't seem like the place where such things are appreciated...but i'm working on it

Largo
05-16-2003, 12:26 AM
Yes- definitely. Have done it in the past as well. It's a great learning experience. If you can learn just one thing from the experience, than I'd say it was worthwhile.

SmilingNage
05-16-2003, 03:29 PM
I would challenge them to lick their elbows. If they could, I would walk away in defeat

gilgul1
05-16-2003, 05:24 PM
I probably would not accept a challenge, as I understand the term to mean "show me what you got!" or "Prove the worth of your training!" or "my sensei can kick your sensei's butt!" While I have seen videos of O-Sensei and Tohei-Sensei accepting challenges, I would not be able to represent Aikido adequately.

But if someone asks me to come try out their dojo or try sparring with them for fun and profit, what the hell.

I've tried BJJ, Aikijujitsu, and Judo. At the BJJ dojo I had my ass handed to me, but I got a lot of respect from the guy that invited me, saying that it was a tradition in a BJJ dojo to give n00bs a beating. I didn't go back, despite repeated invitations--I can't afford to get injured. Aikijujitsu was nice, but at the particular dojo I went to the aiki part was mainly lip service--these guys were like stone statues sometimes, but they were very strong. Judo was ridiculous, the head instructor, a former U.S. Olympic Coach, simply sat on a student and laughed at her, despite the weight difference of 100+ pounds.

In each case, I found myself thinking, "it's not Aikido". I found myself longing for the esthetic of the Aikido Dojo, the lack of animosity and testosterone, the feeling that I've learned something besides throwing people, getting over the dualism of winning and losing, it's simply divine.

--Daniel

NagaBaba
05-16-2003, 09:28 PM
Wow!!! so many aikido fighters ;) But I have a lot of difficulty to believe you dears aiki folks :cool:

Rather, I think it is easy to be virtual fighter...

In every sparring rules are most important. It can give serious advantage for one person or for other. You want to fight by judo rules? bjj rules? kick boxing rules? Heck, in aikido there are NO rules at all!

So how you imagine to preserve safety of sparring?

eh you dreamers....

jk
05-16-2003, 09:51 PM
Yeah, talk is cheap...and if you're in a friendly sparring match, there will be rules. By your definition, if I get in a sparring match, I won't be doing aikido, since aikido has no rules. I say so what? What's wrong with me learning how many ways I can get my ass kicked under judo, BJJ, Muay Thai, or Tae Bo rules? What exactly is the issue here, as long as I'm having fun? :)

BTW, Szczepan, can I be your uchideshi? ;)

Regards,

shanman
05-16-2003, 11:28 PM
Yeah I'de except a challenge I'de be afraid I would hurt the person though because if they come at me with uncontrolled speed it would be hard to controll my techniques. I'm still learning.

A friendly sparring match is educational.

Grappler
05-17-2003, 04:36 AM
I've tried BJJ, Aikijujitsu, and Judo. At the BJJ dojo I had my ass handed to me, but I got a lot of respect from the guy that invited me, saying that it was a tradition in a BJJ dojo to give n00bs a beating.
Hehe, yes, it is a BJJ tradition. Especially if you mention you are an XYZ belt in ABC martial art... BJJers will take it as a matter of honour to prove superiority of their skills. The worst thing you could do is to actually wear your Aikido/TKD/whatever black belt to BJJ practice, thats a guaranteed beatdown :)
Judo was ridiculous, the head instructor, a former U.S. Olympic Coach, simply sat on a student and laughed at her, despite the weight difference of 100+ pounds.
Thats not nice, but sooner or later you gotta learn the lesson that size and strength does matter... better to learn it early.

Kevin Wilbanks
05-17-2003, 07:31 AM
Judo was ridiculous, the head instructor, a former U.S. Olympic Coach, simply sat on a student and laughed at her, despite the weight difference of 100+ pounds.
I also had a bad experience when trying out a Judo dojo. The chief instructor also had Olympic credentials. In my first class, an assistant instructor choked me repeatedly during what was supposed to be a positioning drill. Eventually, he whipped a gi choke on me from the front in such a way that he was pinning one lapel to the floor, rather than making a 'v' - with the blade of the fabric cutting straight across my trachea. By the time I tapped, the damage was already done. This despite the fact that I was wearing a white belt, and specifically commented that I knew nothing before we started. I coughed and hacked through the rest of class, and had trouble swallowing food for the next couple of days. It took a week before I could swallow without pain and well over a month before the pain went away completely. If I had tapped much later, I might have needed emergency medical treatment.

In my view, giving the new guy an initiatory beating is a stupid tradition - unless the guy is being snotty. To abuse someone completely unfamiliar with the dynamics of one's art isn't even sporting, much less in accord with even the loosest definition of budo. It only proves that the beginner is a beginner, which was not in question in the first place. Such behavior is simply an ego indulgence on the part of the perpetrator.

After talking to some other folks later, I gathered that Judo groups that are sport-oriented are quite a different animal from more traditional dojos - rarely much there in the way of "do". If you had bad luck at one of the former, like I did, maybe you will find more of what you're looking for at a more tradition/budo-oriented dojo. Unfortunately, in my area, there is no such place.

Jesse Lee
05-20-2003, 12:33 PM
No such tradition at my BJJ dojo, I am happy to say. I agree with Kevin, that seems like a dumb-ass tradition to belittle already-open-minded beginners.

Then again, maybe it makes the point most effectively -- you better check your ego at the door, amigo, b/c you have a lot to learn.

Jesse Lee
05-20-2003, 12:57 PM
Actually I got a big psychological beatdown as a newbie @ New England Aikikai, years ago. A surly yudansha belittled and derided every one of my techniques, for the whole hour, and then he would "demo" the right way and smash me down pretty thoroughly. By the end of class I was pretty pissed. He just walked off with an attitude that said, "Whatever."

I thought about how to handle it, and the only solution I came up with was this -- I went over and thanked him for all the personal, individual attention he gave me during the whole class, and I tried to really mean it.

He instantly brightened right up, said he was stoked that I got a lot out of it, and even apologized for being such a grumpy bastard. A couple slaps on the back and we were buddies thenceforth. :)

shihonage
05-20-2003, 04:31 PM
I find friendly sparring sessions to be very useful for getting a feel of openings and outmaneuvering the partner through constant changes of rhythm and intent.

Also, these are a great eye-opener just how much TIGHTER, faster, and more adaptive your technique needs to be.

Not to mention that this is also an eye opener on my total lack of breathing control ;)

I have not been able to execute any Aikido techniques on an active, non-cooperating sparring partner, except for straight-entry iriminage(once), a headlock, and a really forced kotegaeshi (once).

But, I have a feeling that eventually I will learn the nuances of making someone move where I want them through using their instinctive resistance to my advantage.

I feel that this kind of "wild" practice which is frowned upon by some Aikidoka is a necessary stepping stone to being able to understand how Aikido is meant to be utilized.

O Sensei may have stood on top of a stairwell, and we're all trying to get there by elevator.

But the moment someone knocks you one stair down, you have no other stairs to back you up, so you will fall all the way down - unless you have some grounding.

IMNSHO.