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Mark Williams
04-16-2003, 03:20 AM
I did my first free form training last night. I've been training for around a year but have learnt a lot of techniques and am working towards my 3rd Kyu. It seems that the most effective techniques aren't the Ikkyos, Nikkyos, Sankyos, etc but the simple things like Irimi Nage, Kotagaeshi and Breath throws. Has anyone else found this? For the sake or arguement (i.e. me playing devils advocate), what is the point of learning all of these fancy techniques if you go back to basics in a free form situation?

:ai: :ki: :do:

04-16-2003, 03:56 AM
Totally agree, kokyu-nage is your friend in free-form, but the more "complicated" forms have their place in free-form as well. Not only are they fun to try and do if the opportunity presents, but if you muck-up your "simple" move (common problem for me) you're often still in a position to use sankyo etc (like when you're left only holding the hand/arm when you were going for the torso..).

The more options you know, the more likely you are to be able to adapt to a changing situation. Also, I assume you're talking about using the "classical" forms of these moves, try using the neck/shoulders as your lever instead for ikkyo, much more fun. This leaves the aside the benefits the other moves on learning how to manipulate your partner with minimal purchase.

04-16-2003, 09:11 AM
IMHO, as you train more/longer you will begin to see the Kokyu-nage even in the complicated throws which become even more easy. They all tend to be illustrations of the same principles of enter and blend, redirect and take balance. Train on.

04-16-2003, 09:32 AM
Actually I was doing some free form training last night. Firsly I relised that Aikido is not as easy as it looks even after a lowly year of training.

I agree that Kokyu nage does feel the most natural of the throws, although I am also a tenchi nage fan to.

The pins are good, but especially when the attacks are quick,the pins have to be applied with control. Thus you use less momentum that you would normally use to its fullest with a throw.

Just IMHO.

Kung Fu Liane
04-16-2003, 11:15 AM

maybe basics are easier than advanced techniques when you're under a bit more pressure? ask anyone who does a fighting art and i'll bet they tell you their most commonly used attacks and defences are basic ones...the ones that they've have had more time to work on

04-16-2003, 01:41 PM
as you train more/longer you will begin to see the Kokyu-nage even in the complicated throws which become even more easy.

For us kokyu nage is kind of a catch all name. Anything that doesn't fit into one of the other categories (sankyo, nikyo, irimi, etc) is probably a kokyu nage. They usually have no locking technique and I don't think nage grabs uke in any of the ones I remember. They are anything that relies solely on timing and balance taking. Interestingly we train with the idea that eventually most techniques will become a kokyu nage :confused: