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njnoexit
03-28-2003, 07:15 PM
What were the name of them big pants again? they are of dark pigment. and what is the point of them etc....

Greg Jennings
03-28-2003, 07:19 PM
They are called hakama. Specifically juba hakama.

They were for horse riding. I.e., chaps. Later they just became traditional. Much like many Texans now wear boots even though they never ride (they are terrible for walking).

Best Regards,

njnoexit
03-28-2003, 07:26 PM
hmmm, tradition is great and all, but is it not a hassle?

Kevin Wilbanks
03-28-2003, 09:11 PM
Hassle? It certainly is. So is going to a dojo and falling down and getting up a couple hundred times in a row multiple times per week in general. If you want to avoid hassles, may I suggest a lazy boy chair and a remote controlled TV?

njnoexit
03-28-2003, 11:04 PM
But what importance dose it sugest my friend?

Kelly Allen
03-29-2003, 01:01 AM
I have not worn a hakama yet due to my rank. But I am told by my Sensei that wearing a hakama tends to help find your center. I'm looking forward to seeing if this is true. I think it will take a few yeears yet though since we are not allowed to wear hakama till we are third kyu in our dojo.

Max Ostap
03-29-2003, 01:04 AM
Hassle? It certainly is. So is going to a dojo and falling down and getting up a couple hundred times in a row multiple times per week in general. If you want to avoid hassles, may I suggest a lazy boy chair and a remote controlled TV?
May i suggest answering the question instead of (poorly) trying to make a wisecrack. Or maybe just staying quite if you can't.

JJF
03-29-2003, 03:00 AM
Whoa Max! How's that for a first post ? On this forum it's quite ok to make a few wise remarks now and then, but that kind of trolling / putting down is not looked upon kindly. Now go practice instead of getting your stomack acid building up by reading these forums.

And now to answer the question: I have been wearing a hakama for about a year in aikido, and for two years in kendo/iaido training. Part of it is tradition - I'll admit that, yet in my opinion it also serves a purpose. The hakama will force you to move in a different way and if tied properly it will also give you a feeling of a somewhat 'heavier' center. It also has the advantage that the little plate in the back is a constant reminder to straighten your back - a little bit like if your have ever tried to wear a formal suit with those long sleaves on the back - it forces you to have a better and more upright posture.

Some people also claim that the proces of folding the hakama after practice is a good teacher of disciplin and patience. I think they have a point. Taking care of your equipment is always a good way to train your mind.

Finally it forces you to get to the dojo a little earlier, since it takes a while putting it on :)

For more information go check out http://www.aikidofaq.com/misc/hakama.html

Hope this helps

erikmenzel
03-29-2003, 03:33 AM
As an addition to Jørgens excelent post:

a hakama does make you move differently, if only to avoid getting your foot caught in it.

The tradition part is also very important, it shows that the student is seriuos enough to be part of the tradition and is serious enough to respect proper ettiquette and behaviour.

Finally, maybe also important. It looks elegant.

bob_stra
03-29-2003, 05:33 AM
What were the name of them big pants again? they are of dark pigment. and what is the point of them etc....
Call 'em whatever you want. I'm gonna call mine Jeff.

Me: So, let's go to training?

Jeff The indestructible Hakama: No, I'm tired.

Me: You da man Jeff !!

mike lee
03-29-2003, 06:07 AM
They were for horse riding. I.e., chaps.

Is it true? I never heard that, although it sounds reasonable.

njnoexit
03-29-2003, 07:23 AM
thank you all for my defence. But I am sure kevin did not intendto hurt anyone.

Also Very intresting about the hakama. Thankyou very much for all who contributed. But I yet have another question.If the hakama keeps our balance, and keeps you center, and kees our back strait, etc.. then would it not be best for all students to wear them regaurdless of rank? I know of another dojo somewhere near mine where all the students wear them. Is that dojo soposed to be looked down on for not following tradition? or should they be respected in an attempt to improve the art(or the way you begin to learn the art)?

thank you all for yout time and patience.

Kelly Allen
03-29-2003, 07:32 AM
IMHO the dojo that has everyone wearing a hakama are more traditional than the ones who require you to have rank. O Sensei himself required everyone to wear a hakama so that they weren't coming onto the mats in just their underwear (grappleing gis are in fact underwear). It was only later that the hakamas were used as a status symbol.

Peter Goldsbury
03-29-2003, 08:00 AM
Is it true? I never heard that, although it sounds reasonable.
The question here is whether the hakama, as worn in the 4th-6th centuries, had any relation with horse-riding. There is a body of theory that Mongolian horse-riding nomads introduced some martial arts to the Japanese, but this is far from clear.

The hakama was tied just below the knee, a custom which disappeared in the Yamato & Nara periods. There was obviously contact with Han China, the three kingdoms of Korea, and Mongolian nomads.

There are pictures of the Founder wearing a kosode and it would have been normal practice in the Meiji / Taisho eras and the hakama would have been worn over this.

Best regards,

Jeff Tibbetts
03-29-2003, 12:46 PM
I only have one thing to add that hasn't already been said. Hakamas are expensive! At my Dojo sensei tells anyone that he thinks is commited enough that they can get one. He doesn't tell beginners, simply because he's seen so many leave over the years and he doesn't want them to waster their money. The other students who wear them, and he, say that they help you "feel" a little more graceful or flowing. Other than that, it's simply a part of the uniform and I can't think of any reason why someone wouldn't want to wear one. I would get one today if I had the money...

njnoexit
03-29-2003, 12:49 PM
hmm thats intresting. But I will wait till I am black belt. No need tget in a hurry just to wear a hakama. It dose sound cool though. By the way what is the cost of one? it coud not be thatmuch could it?

Don_Modesto
03-29-2003, 01:03 PM
They are called hakama. Specifically juba hakama.

They were for horse riding. I.e., chaps.
Thanks for the post.

1) Haven't heard the term "juba" before. What does it mean?

2) "Chaps" would seem to answer my question, except that equestrian is not counted among my accomplishments, therefore: What is the function of HAKAMA/chaps for riding?

I recently read that the function of a cape was to entangle incoming arrows...
[QUOTE="Peter A Goldsbury (Peter Goldsbury)"]The question here is whether the hakama, as worn in the 4th-6th centuries, had any relation with horse-riding.

Failing which, what explanations for them have you encountered, Peter?

Thanks.

rachmass
03-29-2003, 01:19 PM
I rode and showed horses (hunt seat) for 25 years, and only wore chaps occassionally in training. The chaps I wore (and everyone else I knew who wore them) were leather or suede and really stuck your legs to the saddle. I find it rather difficult to believe that a soft material such as linen, cotton, or the like would ever be used in this context, as it would slide dreadfully against any leather.

just my $.02 as both a retired equestrian and an active aikidoka.

aikido_fudoshin
03-29-2003, 01:28 PM
It was explained by Gozo Shioda that the reason for using a hakama was so another martial artist could not pick up on the way you move. It was of utmost importance to keep this a secret because it could leave you vulnerable in a fight.

Osu!

Kent Enfield
03-29-2003, 02:23 PM
And what is the point of them etc....They're just pants. They're just part of the traditional Japanese costume. Almost all Japanese arts use them as part of the uniform: kendo, iaido, kyudo, atarashii naginata, jodo, and almost every older, traditional martial art. Pretty much the only Japanese budo that don't wear them are sumo, and some of the modern arts. Go to the ryu guide (http://www.koryu.com/guide/ryuguide.html) at koryu.com and try to find pictures of people not wearing hakama.

It just that the most popular Japanese martial arts outside of Japan, judo and karate (yes, I know), are arts that don't use hakama. Because of this, non-Japanese think hakama-wearing is a rare thing.

So I think a better question than, "Why do some aikidoka wear hakama?" is, "Why do some budoka not wear hakama?"

I've heard the "hide your footwork" theory before, and I just don't buy it, as hakama don't actually hide your movements.

Sven Groot
03-29-2003, 02:31 PM
The explanation that was given at my dojo is in fact that the Hakama serves to hide ones legs. And it does seem to be at least partly true, because when my sensei wants us to really see how he's standing, he holds his hakama up.

Also, that is the reason beginners don't wear it. The Hakama would conceil errors in stance and movement, so sensei/sempai can't correct you. That and the cost as was mentioned above.

[EDIT: Stupid spelling mistakes :mad:]

Greg Jennings
03-29-2003, 02:47 PM
I rode and showed horses (hunt seat) for 25 years, and only wore chaps occassionally in training. The chaps I wore (and everyone else I knew who wore them) were leather or suede and really stuck your legs to the saddle. I find it rather difficult to believe that a soft material such as linen, cotton, or the like would ever be used in this context, as it would slide dreadfully against any leather.

just my $.02 as both a retired equestrian and an active aikidoka.
I was born and raised on a cattle operation. I rode horses wherever the cattle went. Not in a pasture or show ring (although I've done my fair share of barrel racing).

The chaps I wore then were of heavy leather and were there primarly to protect my pants and my legs from briars, thorns, etc. although they did help with "seat" and with chafing.

Today, my chaps are of 1000 denier nylon. They don't help my seat at all; they're actually sort of slick. They're wonderful with chafing, though. That's important because I only get to ride on weekends. They are incredible protection against briars and thorns. They are also snake proof which is important here as we have lots of rattlesnakes and cottonmouth. Someone says "Wait, I've never seen horse riding chaps like that". And that would be correct. They are are not intended as horse riding chaps.

So, just as the construction of my chaps changed with their purpose, isn't it possible that the joba hakama did also? That they were originally made of something much heavier and that they lightened up when they became just ordinary clothing?

Speaking of that, I have another example of that. Do you know what a "duster" is? They were originally made out of oil cloth and would shed water. My nephew, back when he was caught up in the Urban Cowboy scene, had one made out of some thin manmade fabric. It wouldn't shed water, but it looked cool enough for him to pay $100 for it.

And, while I'm on an example tear, I have a hakama made of heavy canvas that would certainly shed briars.

Hi Modesto Sensei: My bad, I meant Joba, not "Juba". If I understand the term correctly, it refers to horse riding. I can't remember where I originally picked up the term. But I distinctly remember them being called "joba hakama" and it was supposed to translate to "horse riding clothing that one steps into" or something like that.

Again, I'm pulling from memory, but the "joba hakama" was to differentiate them from a different kind of hakama that was not split and was very long intended to be folded up between the calves and thighs.

None of that addresses Goldsbury Sensei's comments, however, about the correctness of them actually being for horse riding. I'd found that interesting and would like to hear more.

Regards,

Greg Jennings
03-29-2003, 02:51 PM
The explanation that was given at my dojo is in fact that the Hakama serves to hide ones legs. And it does seem to be at least partly true, because when my sensei wants us to really see how he's standing, he holds his hakama up.
I was told that that explanation was bogus as the hakama was tucked up during duels to avoid tripping as the sleeves of the upper garment were tied back to avoid snagging, etc.

Take it for what it's worth,

Best Regards,

Chuck Clark
03-29-2003, 03:24 PM
The people that I know have feet that're hooked on to their legs and their legs are hooked on to their butts...

All foot movement shows in the hips, and another good monitor of what the hips and feet are doing is the shoulders.

deepsoup
03-29-2003, 03:32 PM
All foot movement shows in the hips, and another good monitor of what the hips and feet are doing is the shoulders.
I read somewhere that Foley artists always watch a person's shoulders when they're dubbing the sound of footsteps. Apparently its much easier to stay in time than if you watch the feet.

Sean

x

Kevin Wilbanks
03-29-2003, 05:06 PM
Another counter to the likely made-up explanation of hiding one's feet is that in some periods, the style for hakama length were very short - like halfway up the shin.

There's a similar thing I always thought was bogus. Some say that when holding the sword at waist level with the blade pointing down and back that you should angle it such that the opponent cannot see it. like this is going to be some big advantage. I mean aren't you supposed to be in a freakin' sword duel? If your opponent is so stupid as to not wonder why you are standing with some surprise tucked behind you, or, worse, to have forgotten that you were just holding him at bay with a sword pointed at him only seconds before, how much tactical advantage are you really going to need anyway?

Kent Enfield
03-29-2003, 07:22 PM
There's a similar thing I always thought was bogus. Some say that when holding the sword at waist level with the blade pointing down and back that you should angle it such that the opponent cannot see it. like this is going to be some big advantage. I mean aren't you supposed to be in a freakin' sword duel? If your opponent is so stupid as to not wonder why you are standing with some surprise tucked behind you, or, worse, to have forgotten that you were just holding him at bay with a sword pointed at him only seconds before, how much tactical advantage are you really going to need anyway?That position is most commonly known as "wakigamae." Your opponent not seeing the weapon isn't supposed to hide the fact that you have a weapon. It hides how long it is, and to some extant what you're doing with it.

But, of course, those arn't the main features of wakigamae, just small bonuses.

Kevin Wilbanks
03-29-2003, 08:24 PM
To me, it seems like the main feauture of the position should be that you've got a comfortable, secure grip on the sword and you're in the most ready-to-move position possible. I have not found any way to 'hide' it in which this is the case - it always involves cocking the wrists and/or arms awkwardly, which results in a slower start and a less relaxed/neutral feeling stance. If I had to get in real sword fights, I don't think I'd ever waste a minute of training trying to work out concealing the blade in that stance. The opponent pretty much knows what you've got and the range of things you can do with it from that position. Who gets cut would seem to be mostly about execution, timing, speed, etc... If you want stealth, hide in the bushes or sneak up on them.

mike lee
03-30-2003, 01:40 AM
The hakama thread was interesting while it lasted. But I'm glad to hear that some are interested in sword work. Nevertheless, the connection seems to be samurai, swords, and maybe horses. (Now when I tie all those straps I'll think about holding my horses.) :D

n0mad
03-30-2003, 03:35 AM
http://www.loyola.edu/maru/hakama.html

mike lee
03-30-2003, 03:59 AM
The problem with this site is that no sources are given. A lot of "urban aikido legends" start this way. It may be true, but based on what?

Don_Modesto
03-30-2003, 03:27 PM
Hi Modesto Sensei:

DJM: Hmm! Flattering that, but if "Peter" works for Professor Goldsbury, "Don" will work for me. Thanks.

My bad, I meant Joba, not "Juba". If I understand the term correctly, it refers to horse riding. I can't remember where I originally picked up the term. But I distinctly remember them being called "joba hakama" and it was supposed to translate to "horse riding clothing that one steps into" or something like that.

DJM: Thanks.

None of that addresses Goldsbury Sensei's comments, however, about the correctness of them actually being for horse riding. I'd found that interesting and would like to hear more.

DJM: Me, too.

WilliamWessel
03-30-2003, 04:24 PM
I was always under the impression that they were sorta like chaps, and then when the samurai or whatnot dismounted, they continued to wear them out of tradition and to help hide the movements of the legs.

Kent Enfield
03-30-2003, 06:52 PM
To me, it seems like the main feauture of the position should be that you've got a comfortable, secure grip on the sword and you're in the most ready-to-move position possible. I have not found any way to 'hide' it in which this is the case - it always involves cocking the wrists and/or arms awkwardly, which results in a slower start and a less relaxed/neutral feeling stance.And as I tell beginning kendo students, "If the right way always felt comfortable and natural, everyone would be master swordsmen. Now, we know not everyone is a master swordsman." Sure it was awkward at first, but so is chudan. Now I find wakigamae comfortable and secure. Like everything, it just takes practice.

Wakigamae is on the defensive side of the spectrum anyway. If you want "most ready-to-move," you want jodan, but that's certainly not a "relaxed/neutral feeling stance." (There's a reason it's sometimes referred to as hi no kamae.)

Now what did this have to do with giant pants?

Greg Jennings
03-30-2003, 06:57 PM
Hmm! Flattering that, but if "Peter" works for Professor Goldsbury, "Don" will work for me. Thanks.
Roger that. I'll call you "Don". However, I've always called Goldsbury Sensei "Goldsbury Sensei".

I believe you and I have been at the same seminars, but haven't been introduced.

Best Regards,

batemanb
03-31-2003, 01:56 AM
A few thoughts with no foundation, but wasn't kimono the main form of wear back then? Not very practical on horseback, I can see how hakama could be introduced for horse riding. I don't think there was much in the way of cow and sheep herding going on back then either, so maybe there wasn't really a need to make them out of anything but cotton. How about the leather industry, land is a premium due to the vast quantity of mountains?

Someone above mentioned sumo wrestlers, they still wear kimono today. I used to live next to a very famous sumo dojo in Tokyo. It was quite common to see the wrestlers in full kimon stocking up on snacks in the local 7/11.

For waht it's worth.

regards

Bryan

jimvance
03-31-2003, 03:42 AM
...but wasn't kimono the main form of wear back then? Not very practical on horseback, I can see how hakama could be introduced for horse riding.Exactly! You could say that riding horses on the saddles we use sort of invented pants. Ask most any Scotsman (or some construction workers nowadays), and they say a kilt is much nicer to wear, leaving the legs free to move. Leggings were always something needed for hunting and riding, two things that may have contributed to the pants being worn by a warrior class.

A couple more points to consider: Japanese clothing follows a very rectangular pattern and seeks to form the body into a uniform pattern. This could account for the more voluminous nature of the hakama, which also has the ability to be both warm and cool when circumstances dictated. Hakama worn in the presence of high ranking officials were supposed to reduce movement (possibly a form of self defense?) while creating a greater sense of deference from those wearing them (they were hard to move around in, requiring focus and poise). Look at some of the examples that still abound in the kabuki....

The urban legends of "hiding one's feet" may persist despite more probable reasons, but one final rejoinder to them might be this: If someone belonged to a culture that dressed this way, don't you think they could tell where someone's feet were through familiarity with the medium (clothing)? As my teacher likes to point out, your feet are hooked to your ass, and people can still see THAT plain and simple while wearing hakama.

Jim Vance

Kevin Wilbanks
03-31-2003, 08:22 AM
And as I tell beginning kendo students, "If the right way always felt comfortable and natural, everyone would be master swordsmen. Now, we know not everyone is a master swordsman." Sure it was awkward at first, but so is chudan. Now I find wakigamae comfortable and secure. Like everything, it just takes practice.

Wakigamae is on the defensive side of the spectrum anyway. If you want "most ready-to-move," you want jodan, but that's certainly not a "relaxed/neutral feeling stance." (There's a reason it's sometimes referred to as hi no kamae.)
I'm not buying either of these arguments. My point was about movement economy, not the learning curve. If I argued the superiority of a boxer's stance with fists raised over a horse stance with fists cocked near the waist because the fists are more ready for action, would you say that chambering them at the waist was just as good if only one practiced enough?

Likewise, just because another position is more 'ready-to-move' does this imply one doesn't need to be ready to move in this one?

Incidentally, jodan and chudan feel plenty comfortable and mechanically sound to me. No funny wrist cocking or ulterior stealth motives seem to be involved either.

As far as the relation to hakama length, I already stated that I think concealing the sword in this position is another instance of a bogus legend/myth.

n0mad
04-01-2003, 01:44 AM
The problem with this site is that no sources are given. A lot of "urban aikido legends" start this way. It may be true, but based on what?
Well actually, with a search in Google, many many sites state the same purpose of hakama. I will go with the majority, since the actual historical purpose is of no value to me.

mike lee
04-01-2003, 02:57 AM
I will go with the majority, since the actual historical purpose is of no value to me.
Not very sound reasoning. At one time the "majority" believed the world was flat.

n0mad
04-01-2003, 03:05 AM
Not very sound reasoning. At one time the "majority" believed the world was flat.

Yes, I know what you're saying; "popular doesn't mean correct", thats why I added that the historical purpose of hakama is of no value to me.

So "popular" for me is ok, as I won't be writing a disrotation on hakama any time soon. ;)

Joe Jutsu
04-01-2003, 04:39 PM
In regards to the practicality of hakama as riding chaps, because they are a soft cotton like material, I had heard that hakama were originally made of leather, which would help a samurai stay in the saddle as well as provide some armor-like qualities. Has anybody else heard anything to this effect? I'm just trying to sort out truth from "urban myth." Thanks guys.

Kevin Leavitt
04-01-2003, 07:48 PM
Agree with Damon about his perspective on the importance of the historical purpose.

I was reading Thoreau's Walden last night...he provoked an interesting thought.

He stated he did not understand why people were so fascinated with the Pyramids in Egypt. He felt that it was a huge waste of time spent building somethng to appease the ego of the nation or of the royality for who they were built. He felt sorrow for those that spent their lives in pain and suffering and death that toiled on them.

He said he'd rather learn about what those who did not build the pyramids spent there time doing.

While I always find it interesting to learn the trival historical significance of something as the Hakama, what true value does that knowledge lend to your becoming a better or happier person?

I do think it is a good reminder, at least for me of the seven virtues of budo that the pleats represent....I think tradition in this sense serves a purpose....to remind us of why we study!

Peter Goldsbury
04-03-2003, 02:20 AM
Though it is possible—in fact highly likely—that horseriders wore hakama, there is no obvious connection between hakama and horse-riding.

The word is usually written as 袴, (Nelson No. 5448, Radical 145). The character has been written in three different ways, with different radicals on the left side of the character. The radical above is koromo-hen (R.120), and means 'clothes', the other two radicals being ito-hen, meaning 'thread' or 'yarn', and kawa-hen (R.177), meaning 'leather'.

The fact that the word appears with a radical meaning 'leather' suggests that trousers were actually made of leather and thus might have been worn by horseriders, but the latter two ways of writing the word have dropped out of use. Nevertheless, all three ways can be found in Morohashi's "Dai Kanwa Jiten", where the meaning of the word is also quite clear: basically hakama are trousers, and the wide, narrow, flowing, pleated varieties all appeared much later than the first use of the word, given in the "Kokugo Dai Jiten" (in 732).

I should perhaps add that there is a whole raft of theories concerning horseriders coming to Japan (usually from Mongolia), and even that these brought to Japan Mongolian martial arts which have been preserved. These theories originate in a thesis proposed by Egami Namio in 1948 and subsequently refined and published as a book entitled "Kiba minzoku kokka" (Tokyo, Chuokoronsha, 1967). The theory turns upon the differences in archaeological remains thought to go back to the Kofun period, when the Yamato state was established.

I should also add that the ice on which Egami skates is awfully thin.

Best regards to all,

Peter Goldsbury
04-03-2003, 06:57 PM
I made a slight error in my earlier post, above, which I muct correct.

Radical 120 = 糸 (thread, yarn)

Radical 145 = 衣 (clothes)

Radical 177 = 革 (leather).

Olga Mihailova
04-04-2003, 12:19 AM
I have read here or elsewhere that in some clubs women start to wear hakama earlier for the reasons of modesty. Can anybody explain what is this problem about. All right, dogi was originally the underclothes but, first, it is much harder and more closed than linen and underlines not more than usual clothes do (much less sometimes). And, second, as I understood, the schools of Martial Arts as we know them appeared in the beginning of the XXth century when the level of the modesty requred had already been quite low. Why all the fuss?

And then how is hakama supposed to help? The only problem I have with my dogi is that sometimes it gets quite opened, that's why I wear a T-shirt or a top underneath. But hakama...

Well, just a curiosity. But I'll be glad if anybody explains.

Have a nice day,

Olga

mike lee
04-04-2003, 01:04 AM
The only problem I have with my dogi is that sometimes it gets quite opened ...

In Japan, women have small ties to keep the top of the gi in place. Some men also use them. I think I recall Nishio Sensei wearing one.

Most kendo gi also come with such tie straps. Small velcro tabs may work also.

JJF
04-04-2003, 03:29 AM
In Japan, women have small ties to keep the top of the gi in place. Some men also use them. I think I recall Nishio Sensei wearing one. Yep! Just take a look at the homepage below and choose the link called "Shoji Nishio Sensei,..."

http://www.aarhusaikikai.dk

And to Olga: Don't pay to much attention to that old underwear/hakama/gi/modesty discussion. It's has been debated on this forum at least a couple of times during the last couple of years, and opinions and myths are just about as many as there are aikido-ka's. The Gi is a set of close well suited for aikido practice, and the hakama is used in most dojo's by either all or a group of students. The rules for selecting who can wear what and why differ from dojo to dojo, just like the variety of belt-colors, kyu-grades and the curriculum for each grade.

Just follow one simple rule and you won't make too much of a fool of yourself: "When in Rome do like the romans" :)

Also: remember to have fun

- Jørgen Jakob

erikmenzel
04-04-2003, 04:33 AM
As a small contribution to the hakama modesty question: Saotome writes in his book The principles of Aikido (p.211)

Worse still, in some dojo, women of kyu rank (and only the women) are required to wear hakama,supposedly to perserve their modesty. To me this is insulting and discrimanatory to women aikidoka. It is also insulting to male aikidoka, for it assumes a lowmindedness on their part that has no place on the Aikido mat.

bogglefreak20
04-04-2003, 04:51 AM
I heard a couple of times that hakama gives you a feeling of better balance. It is suposed to concentrate your weight lower so you become more stable. But by the time you get to wear it, you already have to master your "point" and balance. So it helps you do something you already know how to do.

Still - for me at least - it has a certain appeal... I can't wait to have one of my very very own hakamas :p Besides, judging from experience, rookies in aikido tend to be fascinated by the sensei's hakama and he gets that much more authority by wearing it. Then again I'm only a rookie myself :/

acot
04-27-2003, 10:49 AM
Does everyone here who is a Shodan or above always wear the hakama? I am not at that level, but some of the sensei at the Tainan dojo do not, and some do.

Ryan

erikmenzel
04-27-2003, 01:53 PM
Some where their hakama always, some don't. Even high ranking teachers like Kanetsuka sensei not always wear their hakama.

Clayton Drescher
04-28-2003, 01:19 PM
Hi all,

Does anyone happen to know the significance or meaning of the black vs. indigo or even brown or grey hakama? Did they used to represent different clans? regions? particular martial art background?

also, a little off-topic. I have a black hapkido gi and and planning to start formal aikido training in a few weeks. I know my current gi is durable enough for aikido, but is it totally untraditional and unacceptable to use in an aikido dojo? I understand I should ask my sensei for the final decision, but I just thought I might eliminate an option right now after hearing from some people.

Thanks!

Clayton