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Paula Lydon
03-08-2003, 10:30 AM
~~In my dojo, at least, we use atemi strikes but in a very choriographed manner, instead of allowing for all kinds that flow naturally into the movement of the moment. I have never understood this. Sometimes a strike, kick, grab & pull, rake, stomp, etc. would fit most appropriately and I find myself not doing these things because it's "Aikido". This disturbes me.
~~If no atemi was ever used because this was a completely defensive art, well, that would make more sense to me. But we throw out these motions that seem klunky or silly...especially as most students are never trained in atemi so their strikes are usually going to do more damage to themselve rather than anyone else should they use them in actuality. Everyone I've trained with who had decent understanding/application of atemi has come from a different MA.
~~Have I missed something in either philosophy or training? Please clue me in.
Thanks!:confused:

George S. Ledyard
03-09-2003, 09:40 AM
~~In my dojo, at least, we use atemi strikes but in a very choriographed manner, instead of allowing for all kinds that flow naturally into the movement of the moment. I have never understood this. Sometimes a strike, kick, grab & pull, rake, stomp, etc. would fit most appropriately and I find myself not doing these things because it's "Aikido". This disturbes me.

~~If no atemi was ever used because this was a completely defensive art, well, that would make more sense to me. But we throw out these motions that seem klunky or silly...especially as most students are never trained in atemi so their strikes are usually going to do more damage to themselve rather than anyone else should they use them in actuality. Everyone I've trained with who had decent understanding/application of atemi has come from a different MA.

~~Have I missed something in either philosophy or training? Please clue me in.

Thanks!:confused:
a) Yes, if you really want to learn to strike you should train with some folks from another art for a bit. Actually daily practice hiiting a heavy bag and doing some focus mitt drills combined with som instruction z(even via video tape) can take one a long ways to getting past the typical Aikido weaknesses on striking

b)while it is not usually appriate wit everyone in the class, it should be when training with seniors or peers with whom you have a good relationship to do all of the pokes, gouges, rakes, etc. If you can do them then the partner had a suki. Since Ikeda Sensei is here at the moment and we are half wat through his seminar I can say that his emphasis on taking the attacker's center in the instant of contact so that there is no possibility of further attack is fresh in my mind. Ushiro Sensei said the same thing at the Expo last year. If you execute an irimi and really get in, it won't matter what technique, conventional or unconventional, you are talking about. And people should be made to be aware that they are "open" when they haven't done this. If it makes you feel any better, I will simiulate a poke, gouge, kick, or head butt etc, when I am working with students who are open.

SeiserL
03-09-2003, 01:53 PM
IMHO, I think each style/school has its own use of atemi. Most of it inconsistent and ineffective. I am glad that in Tenshinkai we are allowed to throw in the addition tools as we progress.

George S. Ledyard
03-13-2003, 09:36 AM
a) Yes, if you really want to learn to strike you should train with some folks from another art for a bit. Actually daily practice hiiting a heavy bag and doing some focus mitt drills combined with some instruction (even via video tape) can take one a long ways to getting past the typical Aikido weaknesses on striking.

b)while it is not usually appropiate with everyone in the class, it should be when training with seniors or peers with whom you have a good relationship to do all of the pokes, gouges, rakes, etc. If you can do them then the partner had a suki. Since Ikeda Sensei is here at the moment and we are half wat through his seminar I can say that his emphasis on taking the attacker's center in the instant of contact so that there is no possibility of further attack is fresh in my mind. Ushiro Sensei said the same thing at the Expo last year. If you execute an irimi and really get in, it won't matter what technique, conventional or unconventional, you are talking about. And people should be made to be aware that they are "open" when they haven't done this. If it makes you feel any better, I will simiulate a poke, gouge, kick, or head butt etc, when I am working with students who are open.