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Amin Basri
02-11-2003, 08:03 PM
Hi all,

When i first started aikido,the first technique that my sensei taught was ikkyo.By looking at my sensei demonstrating it,i felt that it was an easy technique to execute but when i tried to do it,it was very hard.So now five months had gone by and i still had difficulty doing ikkyo.My question is well, how to do ikkyo effectively and correctly.And if done correctly what should the uke feel,etc pain.Anyways any pointers on how to do ikkyo correctly will be greatly appreciated.Also feel free to give me any advice on aikido as i am still a newbie in this art.Thanks in advance.

Nick P.
02-11-2003, 10:13 PM
Hi!

As with all moves, the key to them (in my humble opinion) is to be standing in the right place, i.e. move your center to the right spot relative to the attack.

So, if something feels "off", try doing it by entering further/deeper (say at least an inch) for a couple of weeks, then try entering as little as possible. Then, too close, then too far. You should come to a couple of conclusions; first, the move does not remain the same for all attacks/ukes, second, it should be effortless for both you and your uke when done right...which should take about 10 years, people keep reassuring me.

Gopher Boy
02-11-2003, 11:25 PM
Hi Amin!

Thank you for starting a thread on my most favourite technique! I will tell you my (exceptionally bias) recommendation.... beg, plead and bribe your sensei to do more ikkyo! More, more more! (flashback to Billy Idol...)

Seriously (hey - I *was* being serious!) there are a few important points: (these are all done for a left hand attack..)

1. Do not clash! Move the arm with blending in mind.

2. When you connect with your right arm, make sure you grip under the elbow (palm will be facing up.) Use what my teacher likes to call a 'motor bike' action. i.e - revving with the throttle! Gripping underneath give you the best range of motion for the 'revving' and helps with the next point.

3. As you 'rev' uke's arm and move it across and behind his/her body, make sure you roll it over in a natural motion to engage their shoulder. The arm should come up.

4. Simultaneously, move forward with your left knee only.

5. Then, bring your right knee up to for a good solid stance again and slide forward (left, then right), keeping your arms extended and continuing to turn the arm (up to it's threshold!) until they are down.

It is a beautiful motion and as fun to recieve as to do!

I hope that you have lots of new starters all the time at your dojo. There is nothing that will teach you more about ikkyo than doing it with a new starter. You really have to analyse what is going on and what makes it work so that you can help them.

I hope this has been helpful! (Although I fear that my entusiasm for this wonderful thing would have made me throw my money into the ring regardless!)

take care, (and beg for more ikkyo :D )

p.

Graff
02-11-2003, 11:27 PM
I'll offer some pointers, although I too am somewhat of a novice.

Put uke's elbow to his/her ear. The goal here is to put uke in an unbalanced state. One of uke's shoulders should be higher than the other as if uke is beginning to tip on their side.

This next part is where the work is done. Rather than focusing on your hand on uke's elbow, focus on your other hand (on uke's wrist). Imagine tracing a curvy line with the "wrist" hand: a half "downard" circle away (and to the side) of uke. Make sure that to continue the motion so that uke's wrist is above his/her shoulder by the end of the arc movement.

Ikkyo won't work by continuing to pushing on uke's elbow (after the inital part). Ikkyo works by coordinating the "wrist" hand tracing with your footwork. The power comes from the momentem created by your footwork rather than pushing on uke's elbow.

Lastly, remember that every single time you practice a technique (right or wrong)you get better! Practice, practice, practice!

Jeff Tibbetts
02-12-2003, 09:00 AM
You know, I had a thought in class a while back during Ikkyo and I guess this is a good time to bring it up. I think for many of us Ikkyo is one of our first techniques, and it's often considered more "basic". Of course it's not basic, it's another 15 year technique, but there's a reason people think it's more basic. In my experience, even if you don't get all the details right, it's one of the easiest techniques to fudge into working anyway. That is to say, you can't keep going with a Koshinage if you screw it up, but even if you mess up Ikkyo pretty bad it is still almost as effective, and almost always will take Uke down. While this shows how great a technique it is, it also makes it more difficult to make changes, in my opinion. If my body feels it work, then it's hard to try to do it a different way even if I know that it isn't right. For almost any other technique, there is a real need and motivation to altering the technique to make it work better. Just a thought, but I brought it up in class and we were all just like "yeah, progress feels a little slower with this one". Any thoughts on this one? I know that this doesn't address the original problem, but maybe this helps explain why the question came up. To actually respond to the question, I think the thing that helped me the most was to get that arm held RIGHT up into my center before I started moving, and also to walk zig-zag first right, then left with the arm held. The first step to the right pushes your right hip into their armpit, and connects you more; the secong step to the left will quickly drop the uke down. One of the best aspects of Ikkyo for me is how much it really _doesn't_ hurt, so pain is really minimal from what I can feel. Hope this helps.

ian
02-12-2003, 12:09 PM
he he - I think these posts illustrate ikkyo well; it is difficult to define exactly! Every club I've been to has done ikkyo very differently. Here are the ways I have seen Ueshiba do ikkyo (on video):

1. entering (as someone said - 'pushing' elbow towards ear)

2. projecting - as entering, but you use the 'push' on the elbow to throw the person.

3. 'drawing' out to side

4. tenkan and 'drawing' uke forwards

However I would say even these defenitions miss represent ikkyo since they suggest that you 'do' something to uke to achieve it. Ikkyo exists in most martial arts - however the majority use the pressure against the elbow to force the opponent down, or the pressure point 1 AU (thumbs width) behind the elbow joint.

Also I've seen this 'cranking' movement where the bent elbow is wound forwards so ukes elbow is lower than their wrist (giving a mechanical advantage).

For me the beauty of ikkyo is that it can be a pure blending motion where the thrust or pull back/block is utilised immediately in an over-extension of uke. I think the versitility of ikkyo is amazing - it can come from pretty much any technique, atemi or attack and is regularly a useful 'counter'-technique.

My main advice on performing it is:

1. make sure you blend

2. make sure BOTH arms are extended when doing the technique, there is a tendency for the inner arm to collapse if the body isn't moved enough. If it does move back slightly so your arm can extend.

3. ukes fore arm should be in front of your centre

4. be prepared for a change in direction when uke goes down (sometimes they stretch their arm to the side, sometimes they flop forwards).

Ueshiba has been noted as saying, when you understand ikkyo you understand aikido.

Ian

akiy
02-12-2003, 12:20 PM
Hi everyone,

So, we've probably all heard about how the literal translation of "ikkyo" is "first teaching."

What "teaching" is behind ikkyo for you?

What principle does ikkyo illustrate the most clearly (as compared to other techniques?

-- Jun

Don_Modesto
02-12-2003, 12:53 PM
What "teaching" is behind ikkyo for you?

What principle does ikkyo illustrate the most clearly (as compared to other techniques?-- Jun
Initiative/decisiveness/putting yourself under the sword

Kevin Wilbanks
02-12-2003, 02:24 PM
"What principle does ikkyo illustrate the most clearly (as compared to other techniques?"

Confusion, from having learned it about 8 different ways...

siwilson
02-12-2003, 02:30 PM
OK - Ikkyo/Ikkajo

After blending with attack:

Take Uke's arm at wrist and elbow wth your arms in Tegatana, elbows pointing down!

FROM THIS POINT YOU DO NOT USE YOUR ARMS AND THEY DO NOT CHANGE SHAPE!

Enter taking balance!

(For senior Aikidoka the above is one move).

Enter further through Uke, or Tenkan, understanding that both are forward movements, maintaining Tegatana and not using arms! The hips do he work, moving forwards! "There is no pull in Aikido!"

(For more senior Aikidoka the above is one move).

DO NOT REV!!!!!!!!!!! - This is use of the shoulders, not the hips!

Anyway, there are many ideas on this. And you will see many different ideas on everything. The above is the way I see Aikido, based on my teachers and my lineage back to O'Sensei.

I don't know what you are taught, but you should do what your teacher shows you. Have fun, but if you are interested, investigate other Aikido schools (especially Yoshinkan - IMHO) and learn all you can.

:)

Best Wishes

Colin Clark
02-12-2003, 06:02 PM
My teacher frequently points out that ikkyo is the first/primary technique you should go for: if ikkyo meets resistance, move to nikkyo; if nikkyo meets resistance, move to sankyo... and so on, all the way up to rokkyo. The flow between each move seemed quite natural when he showed it to us; I doubt I could do it as well... (But then, I'm not a 6th Dan. :-))

MaylandL
02-12-2003, 09:09 PM
...Every club I've been to has done ikkyo very differently. Here are the ways I have seen Ueshiba do ikkyo (on video):

1. entering (as someone said - 'pushing' elbow towards ear)

2. projecting - as entering, but you use the 'push' on the elbow to throw the person.

3. 'drawing' out to side

4. tenkan and 'drawing' uke forwards

...

For me the beauty of ikkyo is that it can be a pure blending motion where the thrust or pull back/block is utilised immediately in an over-extension of uke. I think the versitility of ikkyo is amazing - it can come from pretty much any technique, atemi or attack and is regularly a useful 'counter'-technique.

...

Ueshiba has been noted as saying, when you understand ikkyo you understand aikido.

Ian
Hello Ian

Have to say that ikkyo is one of my favourite techniques as it has, IMHO, all of the basic aikido principles and fundamentals embedded in it.

I think the blending aspects are very important and the way that you described it in terms of how Ueshiba and how you perform it is very similar to how I was taught ikkyo.

Regardless of whether it is Ikkyo Omote or Ura, the feeling that I get when I take Ukemi for my Senseis is that I feel my energy (regardless of attack eg katate dori, tsuki, shomenuchi etc) being redirected. I feel that the hip power for Ikkyo is much more pronounced and that the arms only do a shomenuchi cutting motions.

I've found that doing Ikkyo Undo exercises has help me train in ikkyo.

All the best for training :)

JPT
03-02-2003, 04:08 PM
Try this exercise......

Stand up in the middle of the room with your feet close together. Lift your right arm up so that it is parallel with the floor & pointing to the wall directly on the right. Then very slowly try to touch the wall.

Feel yourself falling over ? Now try it again only slower. Play in the area of being off balance (to clarify that means not being in balance & not falling over). Notice to yourself how only a small bit of extension in your arm takes your balance.

The real smooth Ikkyos that I have experienced have a similiar type of feeling or element to the above exercise. That being the subtle extension (or leading) on the arm.

:triangle: :square: :circle:

deepsoup
03-02-2003, 04:49 PM
"What principle does ikkyo illustrate the most clearly (as compared to other techniques?"

Confusion, from having learned it about 8 different ways...
As a Shodokan type, I'm going to talk about oshi taoshi rather than ikkyo, hope that's ok. :)

For me it illustrates the transmission of power from the hips through an "unbendable arm". Its "elbow power", as in the hiriki no yosei excercise we practice every session in our kihon kozo. (I believe the Yoshinkan folks do the same excercise in their kihon dosa too.)

Sean

x

aikidoc
03-02-2003, 05:46 PM
It demonstrates the principles of circle, triangle and square to me, although I prefer sphere, tetrahedron, and box.

Les Kelso
03-03-2003, 11:54 PM
Least movement, most results....Least uke pain, can lead to most uke pin.. least effort in application, most forgiving of error.

most commonly used technique by me in 20+ years of law enforcement, least appreciated by perps.