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zheng yun
01-11-2003, 11:36 PM
Hi,everyone!

I was told that there is a Korean martial art called Hapkido, which is somewhat similar to Aikido.

Is there any relationship between Hapkido and Aikido?

Williamross77
01-11-2003, 11:55 PM
Yes from what i understand the founder of hapkido studied under Ueshiba's teacher Solaku Takeda.

I may be wrong but that is what i know sofar.

Williamross77
01-11-2003, 11:55 PM
sorry that is

Sokaku Takeda

Greg Jennings
01-12-2003, 06:53 AM
There are several huge and controversial threads on this over on http://www.aikidojournal.com/ .

I won't even attempt to summarize.

Best Regards,

Paula Lydon
01-12-2003, 09:30 AM
~~I believe the philosophical base between the two arts is very different, hapkido being much more martially oriented. There is also more throwing, striking, kicking in hapkido. A much harsher MA. A very good 'all-around' art if that's what you're looking/training for~~

Bob
01-12-2003, 10:32 AM
FWIW, I talked to a new aikido student at a seminar some years ago who was a longtime hapkido student and he said that the art was very 'big' in that it had its karate-like side, its aikido-like side, plus a weapons compnent and maybe something else (my memory is not that good) so that the amount of work to be good at it all was almost too much for the average person. In fact he said that many instructors just focussed on one aspect of the art so that he had to go to the karate-like instructor for the punch/kick and the aikido-like instructor for hands-on, etc.

AikiRooster
01-14-2003, 11:35 PM
The history of Hapkido is very much a controversial subject to say the least. However, the techniques involved are very similar and for the most part, the only true difference I have found is the amount of kicking and striking in general included in Hapkido's curriculum. Other then that though, I would say they are defintiely from the same roots. :ai: :ki: :do:

Edward
01-15-2003, 12:17 AM
I think the Koreans have a tendency to adopt anything Japanese, and claim it's their own, maybe because of so many centuries of animosity between the 2 nations.

AikiRooster
01-15-2003, 12:22 AM
I think the Koreans have a tendency to adopt anything Japanese, and claim it's their own, maybe because of so many centuries of animosity between the 2 nations.
Hello Ed, or Mr.Karaa:

Whichever you prefer.

Anyway's, I have found with different Master's and Sensei's that the reverse is true. My understanding is that when the Japanese invaded Korea, they burnt alot of their history books and such, and alot of their history they [the Japanese] have claimed as their own. not being controversial, I promise, just sharing.

Edward
01-15-2003, 01:07 AM
Hello Ed, or Mr.Karaa:

Whichever you prefer.

Anyway's, I have found with different Master's and Sensei's that the reverse is true. My understanding is that when the Japanese invaded Korea, they burnt alot of their history books and such, and alot of their history they [the Japanese] have claimed as their own. not being controversial, I promise, just sharing.
Just Edward is ok :)

I am not aware of the above statement, so I cannot argue whether it is true or not. We both agree however (without taking sides:)) that these 2 nations haven't had the best of relations historically. But since Japan has been isolated for most of its history, I just find your statement not very convincing. But again I am no expert in the matter.

Cheers,

Edward

PeterR
01-15-2003, 01:22 AM
Hi Edward;

There is actually a lot of shared history between the two countries, especially pre-Tokugawa. The Jomen culture was supplanted by cultures originating in Korea in at least two waves, there was continuous trade and for a time Japan occupied part of the Korean peninsula. Most of the Chinese culture that found its way into Japan came via Korea. More interesting there is apparently evidence of the Korean origin of a couple of emperors.

I think it is incorrect to say most of its history since even during Tokugawa times there was trade. Written history has often been as much about politics than truth - the Japanese and Korean's being no exception here.

zheng yun
01-15-2003, 02:48 AM
I think the Koreans have a tendency to adopt anything Japanese, and claim it's their own
HAHA,this sentence may be put like this:"The Japanese have a tendency to adopt anything Chinese, and claim it's their own."

Frankly speaking, that's what most Chinese really think. As for Aikido,I know some people in another forum(back here in Beijing) hold that Aikido is actually simplified Ba Gua.That's a very hasty conclusion ,as none of them have any Aikido experience. However, interesting that I also find some threads on their relationship on

http://www.aikidojournal.com(thanks,Greg!)Very intriguing ideas!

leefr
01-15-2003, 02:59 AM
I think the Koreans have a tendency to adopt anything Japanese, and claim it's their own, maybe because of so many centuries of animosity between the 2 nations.
It's true that a lot of Japanese cultural influence in Korea is passed off as Korean, and I would say that Korean animosity towards Japan causes Koreans to refuse to acknowledge the source of such influence. Of course there are also plenty of scam artists(just as there are in every other country). I think(hope?) Edward meant the above statement this way, as it could also be interpreted more unkindly.

The invasion mentioned by Mr. Nelson was undertaken by Toyotomi Hideyoshi after he unified Japan, which led to a seven-year war between the two countries that ultimately ended in the repulsion of the invasion. Toyotomi apparently had the megalomaniacal plan of eventually conquering China, and though he did not succeed, the Japanese looted and ravaged much of Korea and also carried off many of its skilled craftsmen - I believe this much is agreed upon even by Japanese scholars. But I don't know anything about the Japanese actively appropriating history.

The historical mess between the two nations is such that I think it would be much better to just concede that the cultural influence thing was a two-way street, with the traffic from Japan heavier during the twentieth century, and let the issue lie. Just the issue of hapkido's history alone is hugely controversial, and even among Koreans there seems to be no end in sight to the argument.

AikiRooster
01-15-2003, 06:04 AM
:ai: :ki: :do:

Wow, you folks sure make good discussions hither. Peace be with you my friends.

Greg Jennings
01-15-2003, 06:05 AM
http://www.aikidojournal.com(thanks,Greg!)Very intriguing ideas!
You're very welcome.

Best Regards,

Edward
01-15-2003, 07:10 AM
HAHA,this sentence may be put like this:"The Japanese have a tendency to adopt anything Chinese, and claim it's their own."
I do not understand the sarcasm. It is a historical fact that Japan has borrowed many of its cultural and religious aspects from China such as Buddhism (which China borrowed from India!), philosophy, morality, writing, clothing, military strategy...etc. But the fact is the Japanese never denied the origin of these elements, in the countrary they bragged about their knowledge of such and such Chinese scholars, poets, strategists or historical annals.

Edward
01-15-2003, 07:14 AM
It's true that a lot of Japanese cultural influence in Korea is passed off as Korean, and I would say that Korean animosity towards Japan causes Koreans to refuse to acknowledge the source of such influence. Of course there are also plenty of scam artists(just as there are in every other country). I think(hope?) Edward meant the above statement this way, as it could also be interpreted more unkindly.
Hello Frederick,

By no means did I want my post to be understood in an unkindly fashion. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Now for the Korean animosity towards Japan, I had an unfortunate first hand experience a few years ago when I mistook a group of South Korean tourists to be Japanese, and approached them as such. All I can tell you is that I narrowly escaped being beaten up.

Edward
01-15-2003, 07:23 AM
Hi Edward;

There is actually a lot of shared history between the two countries, especially pre-Tokugawa.
Hello Peter, Thanks for the clarification. Actually I have no doubt that the cultural traffic was a 2 way street as Frederick nicely put it. Frederick's post expresses my own opinion better than my post, actually :)

kung fu hamster
01-15-2003, 07:30 AM
Did your aikido save you?

;)

leefr
01-15-2003, 10:17 AM
Hello Frederick,

By no means did I want my post to be understood in an unkindly fashion. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Now for the Korean animosity towards Japan, I had an unfortunate first hand experience a few years ago when I mistook a group of South Korean tourists to be Japanese, and approached them as such. All I can tell you is that I narrowly escaped being beaten up.
No offense taken, Edward. Just wanted to clear things up a bit before some of my more fiery countrymen took a crack at the topic.:) And I'm sorry you had such a bad experience - anti-Japanese sentiment does run quite high, especially with the older generations, but you seem to have stumbled across a particularly bad-tempered batch. To tell the truth, I myself sometimes have bouts of ambivalence about practicing a Japanese art - not often, but sometimes. And stuff like O'sensei making trips to Mongolia and hosting right-wing societies in his dojo seems to be a matter of only passing interest to most, but when viewed from the perspective of a country that suffered imperialist rule as a result of such activities, can hardly be brushed off lightly.

I am still with Aikido, though, and that is all that needs to be said. :)

Edward
01-15-2003, 10:24 AM
Did your aikido save you?

;)
No, my instant apologies did :D

Edward
01-15-2003, 10:47 AM
you seem to have stumbled across a particularly bad-tempered batch.

Intoxicated would be more accurate :) This and the fact that they were accompanied by their wives or girlfriends probably over-activated their adrenal glands ;)
when viewed from the perspective of a country that suffered imperialist rule as a result of such activities, can hardly be brushed off lightly.

Fully agree. Let's hope however that the past would be forgiven...

zheng yun
01-15-2003, 10:49 AM
I do not understand the sarcasm. It is a historical fact that Japan has borrowed many of its cultural and religious aspects from China such as Buddhism (which China borrowed from India!), philosophy, morality, writing, clothing, military strategy...etc. But the fact is the Japanese never denied the origin of these elements, in the countrary they bragged about their knowledge of such and such Chinese scholars, poets, strategists or historical annals.
Hi,Edward,

I just wanted to point out something that most(or,better say many )Chinese take for granted ,no matter it's a fact or not.

I'm sorry if anyone ever felt offended.

Edward
01-15-2003, 11:02 AM
I'm sorry if anyone ever felt offended.
Not at all. Free exchange of (conflicting)opinions is what makes these forums interesting :D

bob_stra
01-15-2003, 09:07 PM
Is there a good site on Ba Gua that anyone can recommended? I'd love to see some mpgs, as I have a friend in Canada who swear black and blue by it and am curious to see what all the fuss is over.