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Jeff Tibbetts
01-05-2003, 08:19 PM
This conversation I had at work today got me all worked up and I thought I'd let you guys tell me what you thought of it©

The person who told me is in high-school, and he knows I take Aikido© He's very into Japanese culture and we often talk about things at work© One day at school he said there was a martial arts demonstration by an individual and his students© He didn't know the Martial Art, but he described some of the stuff and he thought it was called Ninpo© He said that the guy was telling people to punch or kick him as hard as they could, including kicking him in the privates© Not only did he claim to not feel pain, but also he said there was no bruising and such© Okay©©© up to this point I thought it was funny, then he said that he called this Ki and that he learned it in, get this, THREE HOURS© Of course, he had taken some thirteen years of Tai Chi, but you know I don't think anyone can learn anything in three hours© Call me a skeptic, so I asked him what else he did and it all sounded like Ninjitsu, as far as pressure point work and evasion tactics© Well, I wish I had been there, because it all sounds like a load of total crap to me©

Have any of you ever heard one of these tall tales or even seen someone do something like this? I think that it's certainly theoretically possible to detach yourself from the pain, but I fail to see how you could learn to do this in such a short time, Tai Chi or not© I think that the soft Ki of Tai Chi would not be as transferrable to the hard Ki that this seems to be© Thoughts on what this guy was doing? It seems he left a great impression on the students, further devaluing martial arts, in my opinion©

Erik
01-05-2003, 09:01 PM
This is probably something called Combat Ki created by some guy named Rod Sacharnoski (or something like that). It's a regular topic over in the Bad Budo section on e-budo. It's value? Nah, won't go there.

By the way, Jeff, is there some reason you can't use periods? The eye is drawn to the copyright symbols and it makes your posts distracting and more difficult to read. I find myself seeing the symbols and not the words.

mornmd
01-05-2003, 09:07 PM
There was a striking art offshoot of Karate that claimed to channel Ki in the same manner that was reported on a major network (?ABC) television recently. Strange demonstrations included punches to the throat and kicks to the groin with no pain. Certainly, if ki is being used here, its philosophy appears to be different from the use of ki in aikido.

john2226
01-05-2003, 09:11 PM
uummmm when it comes to getting kicked in the privates, im not into that kind of thing :) LOL I have never heard of Ki being used in that manner though. Im new at all of this though.

MikeE
01-05-2003, 09:11 PM
If the guy was from Omaha...I know exactly who and what it is.

CZR
01-05-2003, 09:26 PM
Stories like these are not uncommon in the ma world. Some of them are recounts of actual demos, others are embellishments. The idea of taking solid hits to vital areas and being unaffected is a keystone to a variety of striking arts though not explicit in Western training. If you're interested, a thorough internet search should provide a handful of videos that contain similar definitions. Also, anyone who's been to an upper-level wushu demo should have seen something of this sort. Having seen a variety of demos to this extent, I will varify only that there are men who can do this. Many claim that this mysterious ability is the result of "ki." However, solid muscular structure and high pain tolerance are not to be ruled out either. What is true is that the varying definitions of "ki" can be attributed to this phenom as much as they can be used to explain magical demos of aikido...

In conclusion, I would not go as far as to call these "tall tales" but a healthy dose of skepticism is appropriate. As far as ki or chi is concerned, many chi-gung masters will agree that simple exposures to ki can be taught in as little as twenty minutes. Manipulating this felt "ki" to some useful extent is the more complicated issue. If you find yourself skeptical, call someone's bluff. (ie. if they claim to be able to do something with ki) Then judge for yourself; what is ki...

Thalib
01-05-2003, 09:41 PM
Just for reference, Shaolin monks perform a lot of these demonstrations to show about Qi Gong. I mean their training consists of getting hit by logs, bricks, metals, etc. There are other trainings like putting hands into burning sands, licking red hot pokers, etc. Believe it or not, it's already widely known.

As for getting kicked in the balls (pardon the language - if it offends anyone), the Shaolin monks don't actually let them do that. They actually trained to be able to "suck-in" their balls. I mean this is no weird thing, when you got kicked in the balls sometimes, it actually get pushed in. The Shaolin monks trained to pull it in before it got kicked in and push it out again.

I'm sorry if this sounds gross to some or maybe most. I just don't know how to word it eloquently.

Jeff Tibbetts
01-06-2003, 12:33 AM
Erik© I thought those little copyrights were gone© I don't see them on my computer anymore, I used to© When I type it all looks normal, and then they change on their own© Don't know why this is, but needless to say I don't do it on purpose© Think how long it would take to write a note ¥and many of you know I like long posts¤ if I had to do that symbol© Come to think of it, how do you even do that on a regular keyboard?

Jun, any ideas on why my posts switch out periods for copyrights sometimes? I'd love to know as it annoys the hell out of me, too!

pointy
01-06-2003, 01:02 AM
Some of the little ki tricks i've learned take no more than 5 minutes to pick up. I've passed them on to others in maybe 90 seconds or so..

disclaimer - - i dont know anything very advanced or even a little advanced,just a couple of things here and there that are fun at a party :)

For applying ki in slightly more advanced ways, if the person is ready to pick it up, showing them how to stand squarely in place and not get pushed over (for example) doesnt take very long. It seems to not take much time at all if the person is ready to learn that sort of thing.

Actually the more of these ki "tricks" i learn, the less "magical" they seem. There is always some kind of basic physical structuring behind them. I'm thinking of the ki tests that i think Ki Society schools do.

Although, come to think of it, i cant really explain how unbendable arm physically works. I've read explainations a few websites where they say it's the triceps giving resistance. Anyone who has done unbendable arm knows that there arent really any muscles at work there so i dont buy that explaination.

uh, just my 2¢...YMMV

peace

evan

locknthrow
01-06-2003, 02:28 AM
I was in the Bujinkan for some time and I can tell you this stuff wasn't in "mainline" ninpo/ninjutsu (if there is such a thing) I bet it is probably an off shoot of Ryu Kyu kempo george Dillman type stuff. I saw something on Ripley's believe it or not from a kempo guy doing the same thing

Bruce Baker
01-06-2003, 07:07 AM
There is a method of training that allow you to overcome the concentration of someone using this method of deadoning or hardening the areas of the body that are struck.

Believe it or not, you have a clue to using it in your basic lessons of not being drawn into your opponents eyes, or into their sphere of power. You will find numerous mentions of this in both writings, and in training . Kokyu doza is a good example of both physical / mental training to avoid being a victim of what appears to be iron body.

Some of it is like sparring. You don't think about any individual punch, kick, or technique ... you just keep going until either time expires or one of you gives up.

The flow comes from practice, and there are no individual pieces to the session.

Transition.

An important thing to consider, and learn.

MikeE
01-06-2003, 07:13 AM
There is a group that are part of the bujinkan from Canada that have sponsored dojos in the U.S. that do this stuff.

My friends in the Bujinkan think they are a bit off.

Lyle Bogin
01-06-2003, 10:39 AM
It seems to me that tall tales support most martial arts. Sometimes a fable holds more truth than a fact ;).

However in this specific case (Combat Ki)...I'm not sure how much truth there is to be found.