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john2226
01-04-2003, 11:55 PM
im curious as to Aikido's effectiveness against a perosn who is trained in Boxing. Giving their conditioning and the fact that they throw fast punches then follow up with another puch,or immediatley pull their fist back in, it seems like it would be hard to defend against someone like this. Also they seem to have a good solid stance that they punch from. Thanks for any insight and opinions here.
john

shihonage
01-05-2003, 01:22 AM
Gozo Shioda Sensei (founder of Yoshinkan Aikido) has defeated a boxer.

He ducked under the left jab, grabbed the guy's right arm and did a shihonage.

If you're not quite on Mr. Shioda's level, however, may I recommend a couple of football tackling drills.

PeterR
01-05-2003, 03:17 AM
im curious as to Aikido's effectiveness against a perosn who is trained in Boxing. Giving their conditioning and the fact that they throw fast punches then follow up with another puch,or immediatley pull their fist back in, it seems like it would be hard to defend against someone like this. Also they seem to have a good solid stance that they punch from. Thanks for any insight and opinions here.

john
OK I'll take a swing (sic) at this.

I know some superbly conditioned Aikido players whose bread and butter is dealing with rapid strikes, followed by more rapid strikes and pulling the hand back in. They would have no trouble dealing with your average boxer. In fact I would pity the boxer.

Now a professional fighter like Tyson (and yes Shioda and Tyson met but never fought) there are not too many people period that would stand up to him.

The main question I would have can the Aikido person take the hit. The current number one in competitive Aikido is also a very skilled shoot fighter so I have no doubt in his respect.

I actually think that all martial artists should cross-train in an art, if even for a short time, where they can get hit.

Amin Basri
01-05-2003, 06:32 AM
Hi,

Who is the current number one in competitive aikido? i am a beginner and wondering if there is competitive aikido and when exactly does the meeting between Shioda and Tyson took place.

Regards,

AB

Paul Smith
01-05-2003, 07:18 AM
The way Tyson's running his game, probably not too long before the "Shioda Sensei-Tyson" matchup.

norman telford
01-05-2003, 08:45 AM
the competitive or sport form of aikido as some call it is tomiki style a havent tried it but i wouldnt mind having a go as peter says we should cross train in another art where you get hit,as you just might have to take a punch before you know whats going on. and the meeting between shioda sensei and tyson this can be read about in the book angry white pyjamas by robert twigger (tyson declined the offer of stepping on the mat if i remember correctly :D

Lyle Bogin
01-05-2003, 09:36 AM
Well, I have never heard of boxing and aikido getting into a fight. However, boxers and aikidoists may occasionally tussle. I see no real benefit to this kind of thinking, and I've thought about it a lot.

The best answer comes from experience, rather than anecdotes or tall tales. If you are so curious, get in the ring and find out for yourself.

deepsoup
01-05-2003, 10:15 AM
Hi Amin,

The person Peter was referring to is Yu Shiori (Shodokan Honbu dojo), who won the men's individual randori section of the last international tournament, in Osaka.

There are more details of the results, both randori and enbu, from that event here (http://homepage2.nifty.com/shodokan/en/taikai1.html).

The next international event takes place in Leeds, in the UK, later this year.

the competitive or sport form of aikido as some call it is tomiki style a havent tried it but i wouldnt mind having a go as peter says we should cross train in another art where you get hit,as you just might have to take a punch before you know whats going on.
Hi Norman,

To split hairs a bit:

Shodokan (also known as Tomiki-style to some) isn't so much a 'sport form' of aikido, as a style of aikido which includes an element of sporting competition as a training tool. Its a subtle difference, but an important one, imho.

And whats all this about getting hit? :)

We may be aiki-thugs, but a Shodokan dojo is definitely not a place where "you just might have to take a punch before you know whats going on".

Shodokan aikido is a bit thin on the ground in your part of the country, but you'll definitly be most welcome to visit if you find yourself down in Sheffield.
(And if you're interested in seeing what an aikido competition looks like, there'll never be a better time than to come down to Leeds and have a look in August.)

Sean

x

john2226
01-05-2003, 11:42 AM
Thanks for the replies here. This has opened my eyes. I am also new at Aikido. Taking a hit is not something many people think about. It is a good thing to be able to take. No matter how good someone may be they may take a hit. I must say I like these forums. :)

shihonage
01-05-2003, 03:54 PM
Mike Tyson has actually visited Gozo Shioda's dojo.

There's a picture of the two of them standing together in the book "Aikido Shugyo".

L. Camejo
01-05-2003, 04:45 PM
Hey Sean,

Got any exact dates on that August International in Leeds? Planning to make the trip this year. MAy be the first showin of our country at the tournament :)

L.C.:ai::ki:

PeterR
01-05-2003, 07:25 PM
Hi Sean;

Didn't mean you expect to get hit at the Shodokan.

What I did mean is that some experience in an art where you can get hit (boxing, Nippon Kempo, etc.) where the fear of getting hit is reduced and the respect for the potential of getting hit is increased.

Had my first training session of the year at my new dojo in Himeji yesterday. None of the beginners showed up (lazy sods) but luck would have it my Nidan assistant and I were joined by a Yondan in a surprise visit. A good chunk of the time was spent in toshu randori. Damm do I need to do more of that. Personal plan for this year - I am going to push randori.

deepsoup
01-06-2003, 06:08 AM
Got any exact dates on that August International in Leeds? Planning to make the trip this year. MAy be the first showin of our country at the tournament :)
Hi Larry,

I believe its between the 6th and the 10th of August, but I haven't seen a running order or anything, so dont know what event takes place on which day. Thats excellent news that you're planning to make the trip, I'm already looking forward to meeting you. :)
Didn't mean you expect to get hit at the Shodokan.

What I did mean is that some experience in an art where you can get hit (boxing, Nippon Kempo, etc.) where the fear of getting hit is reduced and the respect for the potential of getting hit is increased. Of course you're right about that. I thought Norman had got the wrong end of the stick, but looking at his post again, I think I was the one not quite understanding his post.
Had my first training session of the year at my new dojo in Himeji yesterday. None of the beginners showed up (lazy sods) but luck would have it my Nidan assistant and I were joined by a Yondan in a surprise visit. A good chunk of the time was spent in toshu randori. Damm do I need to do more of that. Personal plan for this year - I am going to push randori.
That sounds like a pretty intense workout. :)

I dont do enough toshu randori either, and man is it difficult.

Best of luck with the new dojo.

Is there any possiblity that you'll be making the trip to Leeds this year?

Regards

Sean

x

L. Camejo
01-06-2003, 07:51 AM
Hey Sean,

Thanks a lot for the dates, now I can plan, and set up an enhanced training regimen (ouch, randori shiai).:)

I'm in the same boat as you and Peter, last time I did toshu anything (and that was Hikitategeiko) was when my sensei, Jerome visited from the UK in October. We normally go the tanto kakarigeikeo, tanto hikitate and then tanto randori route in training. Now I have something new to add to this year's training. So many basics :)

But going back to the boxing. Is it because some Aikidoka don't train with the constant quick, accurate, sharp attacks with the pull backs and setups part of the reason why we have questions about effectiveness against different attacks?

For example the graded approach to full resistance randori that I outlined above. I wonder if its because not enough time is spent on how to deal with the constantly changing speed, distance and attacks of a skilled boxer or attacker part of the reason why its a question that shows up every so often.

This is part of the reason why I started that thread on Drills (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&threadid=3187)

Many times I hear talk about going and doing an asrt with sparring to leanr how to deal with these attacks. But why go learn to make shoes if you want to build a house?

Just my 2 cents.

L.C.:ai::ki:

Matthieu
01-06-2003, 12:25 PM
In Aikido Shuggyo, Kancho sensei recalls an event where O-Sensei actually caught the jab of the then Japannesse Boxing Champion with one hand and the boxer flew backward.

O-sesei explained this technique by saying that when the jab had reached it's limits, it had only one way to go (back with the rest of the body! ;) )

Osu!

shihonage
01-06-2003, 12:47 PM
In Aikido Shuggyo, Kancho sensei recalls an event where O-Sensei actually caught the jab of the then Japannesse Boxing Champion with one hand and the boxer flew backward.

O-sesei explained this technique by saying that when the jab had reached it's limits, it had only one way to go (back with the rest of the body! ;) )

Osu!
I believe what the book says is that he grabbed the fist and pulled it in, then scooped the guy's neck from below and threw him.