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Bruce Baker
12-19-2002, 08:11 AM
Alright. Let's get to it. A means of having response without thinking about it, or concentrating on it.

Most people interpret it as catching an object that is seen out of the corner of the eye without looking for it while doing another task entirely. Action without prethinking your actions.

Most of this type of training happens when you learn to slightly withdraw from what is happening about you into a slightly depressed state that dulls emotional attachement, and allows you to function on automatic ... as it were.

That same type of action that most people get when repitition sets in and the action is programed to happen by the outside stimulus of movement.

Speed bag training, dodging incoming spitballs, throwing a basket ball over your shoulder for a basket, or even tossing a piece of paper into the wastepaper basket without looking, these are all forms of automatic response training.

The main type of Aikido tool is to look at the center while the vision is not focused upon the center but the entire scene is taken in just like a meditation ... withdrawn but fully aware.

What I am getting at ...

How many times do you find yourself intercepting movements in practice that change, either because they are slips or mistakes, or badly done, without thinking about it, adjustment / interception just happens?

How does your dojo train in this, or don't you do training that relates to Automatic response to find this little gem?

Jim ashby
12-19-2002, 08:18 AM
Yes we do. It comes through repetition ad nauseam to produce conditioned reflexes. Aiming and throwing are practised until it is unconcious etc. etc etc........

Have fun

Creature_of_the_id
12-19-2002, 08:24 AM
this type of response is caused by relaxation.

The more relaxed the mind/body the faster it can move and respond without your 'conscious mind' second guessing it.

When you gain faith in your technique then you naturally relax and let things happen responding faster.

faith in technique can come from practice.

practice is gained by turning up and training.

to focus on increasing this type of awareness kinda defeats the point, as focusing in itself makes you second guess it and reduce your response time.

allow people to train and they find their own way their in their own time as they slowly gain confidence in their own aikido.

Edited for spelling: prolly didnt get them all though

MikeE
12-19-2002, 09:10 AM
I agree with Kev. But, I also think this type of response is also a function of zanshin. As you become more aware and more in tune with your surroundings you have more time to deal with something, no matter how unexpected.

I find this happens alot in my training. I start my movement towards one ending and it ends up completely different...and I really don't know why or how.

My students then ask, "Could you show that again"? Sometimes I can, other times no.

In Aiki,

Creature_of_the_id
12-19-2002, 09:23 AM
I find this happens alot in my training. I start my movement towards one ending and it ends up completely different...and I really don't know why or how.
:)

to me that is what aikido is all about.

if you attach yourself to an outcome (or technique) then it may not work out that way, the uke may move differently and that technique may not be applicable or you may fight to get to that technique.

if you simply move with intent and experience the interaction with the uke then the outcome is manifest of that intent and the technique looks after itself.

it puts you in the moment, not worried over what technique you are doing, just enjoying the experience of harmony with the uke.

I agree its all about zanshin. as zanshin or awareness can only ever be about the moment, as you cant apply technique or experience harmony in the future, you can only experience it now.

but, that all comes with time I guess. train, learn, forget and have faith.

anyways...

SeiserL
12-19-2002, 09:46 AM
Relaxation, Me-tsuki (soft eye focus), and 3,000 to 30,000 reps.

Until again,

Lynn

Bruce Baker
12-20-2002, 07:06 AM
That is part of it Lynn!

Good description, "soft eye focus".

Relaxation, but heightened awareness.

Nice words, but how else can you get there without exhaustive training of the body?

Usually by telling the mind the secrets and letting the body work out the details.

Ghost Fox
12-20-2002, 08:07 AM
That is part of it Lynn!

Good description, "soft eye focus".

Relaxation, but heightened awareness.

Nice words, but how else can you get there without exhaustive training of the body?

Usually by telling the mind the secrets and letting the body work out the details.
The only other way is through autosuggestion. Visualizing perfoming the technique over & over again while in a state of altered consciousness (Seeding the consciousness).

This should also be followed by a method of Zazen (meditation w/ no focus) in order to be more freely able to move between different states of consciousness.

Most westerners prefer the exhaustive training method, and do the latter without even knowing.

:triangle: :circle: :square:

Bruce Baker
01-08-2003, 08:00 AM
How about the old toss an item, ball, bag of beans, or coin in the air and catch it without looking?

How about having two people on the edge of your periferal vision toss little stuffed toys at you while you look staight ahead?

Or maybe walk the gauntlet where they reach out to touch you as you walk by and you must touch their hands before they do?

Three physical exercises that prompt you to use the unconscious mind which is so much quicker than the conscious mind.

This is exactly the point of having comments about fighting competitors of the UFC trying to stay within the rules by using the conscious mind, but they freeze because of this conflict of body reactions being overridden by the minds restrictions by abiding "by the rules."

The use of training to have an automatic response is so that this conflict is resolved before an event happens allowing the body to react without restriction ... or at least without distraction.

I find that carrying over the "soft eyes" technique, which to me is a term for stepping back and getting a new vision of a situation where you are able to make decisions because you are safe from repercussions of the situation, is another means of being able to judge a situation and react without thinking too deeply and having those thoughts slow your responses.

There is no movement between states of consciousness, but there is the ability to draw upon this technique just a quick as you would any rehearsed movement, word, or thought. It is easier to let the state of reaction respond within the parameters of movement while your conscious mind pays attention to the safety aspects of what you are doing.

I guess, it is like having one person coach your movements instead of two or more people who confuse you as to what you should do. You are thinking, but then again you are listening to advice of what to do.

Automatic response is kind of like that, only your conscious mind is keeping tab on your movements like the coach who is giving you advice.

I call it video game eyes. Detatched yet attached to the action the movements until the absorbtion of movements is matched with hand and eye co-ordination without emotional attachment.

The kind of eyes that see not only the movement of your video character who you manipulate, but you see the other movements of all the other things on the game screen that affect your video animated character.

Don't tell me you haven't played a game of some kind where you become detached from it to achieve a higher form of consciousness to increase your reaction time?

Automatic response reactions.

Works pretty good for Aikido, too.