View Full Version : what's the stink?
12-08-2002, 10:54 AM
~~So what's this ongoing dibate about using ground work, or not, in Aikido? I just don't get it. I came to Aikido with 8 years of Jujitsu behind me and have studied Aikido for 6 years now, while also teaching Jujitsu. In my mind there is no conflict.
~~Hey, drop the titles! It's all the same principles of movement, timing, balance and disbalancement, positioning, light and heavy, angles, flow, etc, just a different venue. Watch a really good wrestler sometime--not WWW.
~~Try practicing sometime with an openness that allows for flow between standing, kneeling, on the ground and back up again. It truely makes you focus on the underlying principles instead of just some technique.
~~My two cents for the morning :ai: :ki:
12-08-2002, 12:03 PM
I grapple and wrestle for fun. But, I avoid it in real situations. I practiced in the past with some jujutsu (BJJ and non-BJJ) on ground fighting. In the end, I don't try to grapple them back when I got to the ground - kinda boring for me. I just set my mind to get back on my feet, and I did, while the other guy is just lying on the ground.
One funny experience I had on one grappling practice:
This guy had me pinned, but I suddenly had a funny feeling that I could stand up. I stood up, almost effortlessly. And this guy was still across my body, he didn't realize that he was 3 feet above the ground. When he realized it, he asked me to put him down, and I did, gently.
There are other funny stories during grappling practices that I had in the past. All I did is just use the principle of Aiki, and it neutralizes many techniques. I never won nor lose, the practice just ended with many question marks from my training partner.
I haven't practice grappling for quite a while... I don't think I'm into grappling anymore - boring.
12-08-2002, 01:01 PM
~~There seems to be an ongoing misconception--in my mind--that grappling and ground work are synonymous. They are not. 'Grappling' is just that while ground work employs all the the same principles, also atemi, as any standing practice. I feel like a lone wolf howling at the moon on this topic...
I feel like a lone wolf howling at the moon on this topic...
Why is that?
12-08-2002, 09:50 PM
Problem with playing with a good grappler is that they will hurt themselves to try to get out of good hold. It is not pretty to see ears nearly ripped off, or torn muscles, but then some people don't learn to change and redirect or go with the flow?
Debate, or Dibate, or maybe even Debase language, but it sure is a lot more fun to do Aikido with a little jujitsu now and then.
Take Wally Jays hand warmup exercises and see if they resemble some of your Aiki-ken/ wooden sword practice? Of course Master Jay endorses two way motion, which we do not always pay attention to in Aikido, but we should.
12-09-2002, 02:37 AM
This guy had me pinned, but I suddenly had a funny feeling that I could stand up.
There are other funny stories during grappling practices that I had in the past.
I humbly suggest that your grappling friends may have been quite inexperienced. I know from experience that even if you do stand up, many grapplers will keep right on going. Witness that famous "dangling upside-down" BJJ armbar.
Infact there is a "kata" of sorts in BJJ called "monkey in the tree" where in one person is allowed to stand up. The other person simply keeps on going - upside down, back to front, round and round. Very much great fun!!
As for the whole standing / kneeling/ newaza thing - it really is just a continuation. Pretty much what you can do in standing can be done in kneeling and on the ground IME.
I think weight has a massive advantage in groundwork and very close contact situations - in my mind that is why in aikido we generally try to keep people at a distance with extension. (e.g. suwari waza)
12-09-2002, 08:03 AM
I think weight has a massive advantage in groundwork and very close contact situations
I disagree. Infact weight is a massive DISADVANTAGE against someone who knows newaza. A bigger man has much more trouble on the ground in the beginning. I can vouch for that one ;-)
Also, it kind of limits your options - you can't be as sneaky with you reversals because your body is so much larger.
I'm not sure if this is an issue in aikido tho - I suspect not?
Regardless, I too am amused by this artificial seperation of standing / kneeling / ground grappling ;-)
For me, an interesting exercise has been to observe the change in mindset after the seperation.
JJJ - Judo - BJJ.
Meh - Paula was right to being with ;-)
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